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So it turns out I'm a criminal with no rights.

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OC for ME

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My tinfoil hat usually picks up all sorts of emanations......nothing on this one though.

Follow the process or not. If not be content to rail against Da Man and expect little more than a well worn keyboard.

If you follow the process, as we all must, then there may be enlightenment in your future.

Stay safe
 

joanie

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The appeal form online requires that transaction number, I am currently working on getting it. However, the transaction as it was, is off, so I'm not sure I can and at this point, I wouldn't buy anything from that seller. What?, am I supposed to drive another 200 miles only to be messed with again?

Fool me once.

So I am taking some of the advice here, and I'm looking into how best to fight this in court. These are not things that I can snap my fingers and make happen. Again, If you don't believe what I said about the actions of the police here, some of my family, and 2 or 3 others in Grove City regarding me, then theres no point in me wasting more effort, I can't force anyone to see the truth.

Lowlife criminal scum, signing off, good day.
 

notalawyer

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The appeal form online requires that transaction number, I am currently working on getting it. However, the transaction as it was, is off, so I'm not sure I can and at this point, I wouldn't buy anything from that seller. What?, am I supposed to drive another 200 miles only to be messed with again?

Fool me once.

So I am taking some of the advice here, and I'm looking into how best to fight this in court. These are not things that I can snap my fingers and make happen. Again, If you don't believe what I said about the actions of the police here, some of my family, and 2 or 3 others in Grove City regarding me, then theres no point in me wasting more effort, I can't force anyone to see the truth.

Lowlife criminal scum, signing off, good day.

The FFL will have the transaction number. He is required by federal laws/regulations to retain it for 5 years and provide it to you upon request.
 

marshaul

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So I am taking some of the advice here, and I'm looking into how best to fight this in court. These are not things that I can snap my fingers and make happen. Again, If you don't believe what I said about the actions of the police here, some of my family, and 2 or 3 others in Grove City regarding me, then theres no point in me wasting more effort, I can't force anyone to see the truth.

I actually suspect that there is more than an iota of truth in what you say.

I suspect that at some point you were victimized by an agent in a position of authority, and that the psychological trauma from this event has led to your current situation, where you see the entire world (including this forum) as engaged in a conspiracy against you.

Joanie, I have the utmost sympathy for whatever you're going through. But your inability to differentiate between the abuse you've suffered and everything else says to me you need help. Not like, oh you're criminal scum, go to jail. But actual help – probably in the form of psychiatry.
 

skidmark

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The appeal form online requires that transaction number, I am currently working on getting it. However, the transaction as it was, is off, so I'm not sure I can and at this point, I wouldn't buy anything from that seller. What?, am I supposed to drive another 200 miles only to be messed with again?

Adding one more refrain to the never-ending chorus - the FFL has the transaction number and is required to give it to you. Just call him up and ask him for it. If he refuses to give it to you, call the nearest ATF office and tell them the FFL refuses to give you the transaction number. (Seriously, pitting Da Man against Da Other Man ought to fill you with giggles.)

....

So I am taking some of the advice here, and I'm looking into how best to fight this in court. These are not things that I can snap my fingers and make happen.....

Are you taking the advice being given to you, or are you trying to figure out how you can go to some court to get the denial overturned? Option A has a high probability of success, while Option B has absolutely no probability of sucess. It does not matter how many times you snap your fingers, or click your heels, or spit over your left shoulder - the only way to attempt to get a denial reversed is to follow EXACTLY the steps that have been shown to you for appealing a denial.

Forget "Fool me once ...." You will be better served working with "If one person calls you a fool ...." I'm not sure but I believe the count is around six at this point.

[soup nazi voice] No closing for you! [/soup nazi voice]
 

Lyndsy Simon

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I was denied on a purchase once, with an FFL who was a friend of mine. No explanations.

The next day, he got a call from the county Sheriff's office asking about the denial. He explained that he knew me and that he'd direct me down to see them.

The next day, I went down to the Sheriff's office and asked to see the detective that had called. I shortly learned that there was a bench warrant issued for my arrest in Oklahoma, as a result of an "unpaid" speeding ticket. I had had trouble "paying" that ticket - I'd paid it 3 times - and the last time I did so I got a receipt. I grabbed that receipt out of my document folder in my vehicle, the detective called the court in Oklahoma, and told me not to worry about it, and that an appeal would clear it up.

I ended up not appealing, but instead I let my dad buy the gun I was going to buy that day. He had wanted one anyhow, so it was easier to do that than have the FFL deal with trying to transfer it to me. I bought another one about two weeks later and transferred through another FFL without trouble.

My advice - call your county Sheriff's office and ask if they can assist. If there's an active warrant or something, they likely got a call on it anyhow.
 

Lyndsy Simon

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Well the guy is calling himself a dealer, he might be, but theres no shop. He just sells guns out of the garage of his home with a big dog and some other guy that hangs around to greet you. He runs listings and tells people all they need is their driver's liscense.

SEEMS TO ME, HE COULD HAVE DID THIS CHECK OVER THE PHONE BEFORE MAKING ME DRIVE 200 MILES. Or at the very least mention that he will be running this check and only selling the firearm to those who pass it. Every other person dealer or not, i've ever bought a firearm from just took my DL info down, took the money and gave the the gun. So there goes my Saturday and over 50$s in gas spent. Thats my beef with the dealer. He flat out said bring the money and my DL and I'd be driving home with the gun.

Now for my beef with any and all who fudged up my records with lies to deny me my rights. These people have already cause me enough problems in the past, and continue to do so at present. What this means is I am not a free human, I'm their property and they can do with me what they wish. I'm their slave.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it is a legal requirement for you to be present when the NICS check is called in. Likewise, he probably didn't mention it because it's a requirement for all transfers from an FFL, period.

As far the last part - to be blunt, you were already a slave. The government lays claim to a significant chunk of your income, and claims the right to send you off to war if it so chooses.
 

MKEgal

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FreeInAZ said:
why would anyone drive 200 miles to buy a gun from a FFL? Look for a FFL near you
I wondered that myself. Grove City is a SW suburb of Columbus, the state capitol, a large metropolitan area which certainly has its own FFLs (both with brick & mortar shops, and those like the OP is complaining about who do business from their homes).
Use the FFL search through Gunbroker http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx
I put in 43123 (Grove City) and the first page showed me 10 which are 7.5 miles or less from there.
If the op wants something held by another shop, have them ship it to your local FFL.
Shipping & their transfer fee is probably less expensive (and certainly less time-consuming for you) than driving to the corners of the state.

HP995 said:
I find it alarming that so many people are being hauled off for mental evaluations. That's about the fourth time in a month I've read about these things happening. It looks like a trend. Could I ask what was their supposed reason?
Someone lied to them & said I was dangerous.
9 hours after she made her false report, they came to my home.
Some emergency, huh? (And that was 4 hours after she'd called them back & told them I was OK.)
This happened 2 years ago & it's still in court (federal civil rights case).

joanie said:
I have made calls, several of them to NICS. They tell me something about an appeal.
The instructions on the page I posted last time say:
"You may request the reason for your denial or delay from the FBI in writing by mail, facsimile, or on-line.
Due to the Privacy Act of 1974, the reason for the denial or delay cannot be disseminated to you via the telephone."
Then it gives their address and fax number.
If the FFL won't give you the transaction number, either call the closest BATFE office & sic them on him (as Skid suggested, which does give me a chuckle) or submit your info in writing with as much detail about the transaction as you can give - his name, business name, date, time - so they can look it up. Tell them he didn't give you the number.

op said:
The appeal form online requires that transaction number
So present your case in writing.
Include a copy of your (supposedly clean?) conviction record, warrant check, etc.

op said:
I'm looking into how best to fight this in court.
As Skid said, that won't help you a bit.

op said:
I don't even seem to have credibility here
We've been burned many times by people with outlandish stories,
you don't appear to be listening to the abundance of good, valid, useful advice given you here,
and your overall approach is not helping your case.
Case in point:
All my life it's been about what I was accused of, or what I'm up to, been that way for a long time. Easyer to say I belong in jail and shouldn't have freedom and rights, than to get at the truth.
 

HP995

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marshaul: I suspect that at some point you were victimized by an agent in a position of authority, and that the psychological trauma from this event has led to your current situation, where you see the entire world (including this forum) as engaged in a conspiracy against you.

Joanie, I have the utmost sympathy for whatever you're going through. But your inability to differentiate between the abuse you've suffered and everything else says to me you need help. Not like, oh you're criminal scum, go to jail. But actual help – probably in the form of psychiatry.

A little kindness goes a long way - good post. Whatever happened, the abuse should be dealt with on both ends, helping the victim and bringing the abuser to light.

I do see a lot of troubling "mental health" incidents popping up these days though, so I'm not sure those are the best professionals to turn to at the moment!

Hope the OP will also take the opportunity to appeal the denial too, as everyone suggested! The trans # is a phone call away. The lawyer is the one to help with the abuse.
 

HP995

Regular Member
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730
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MO, USA
MKEgal: Someone lied to them & said I was dangerous.
9 hours after she made her false report, they came to my home.
Some emergency, huh? (And that was 4 hours after she'd called them back & told them I was OK.)
This happened 2 years ago & it's still in court (federal civil rights case).

Thank you so much for following up on that.

I find it incredibly disturbing that people are being hauled away like that.

Any hindsight advice on how such incidents can be handled?
 

WalkingWolf

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A little kindness goes a long way - good post. Whatever happened, the abuse should be dealt with on both ends, helping the victim and bringing the abuser to light.

I do see a lot of troubling "mental health" incidents popping up these days though, so I'm not sure those are the best professionals to turn to at the moment!

Hope the OP will also take the opportunity to appeal the denial too, as everyone suggested! The trans # is a phone call away. The lawyer is the one to help with the abuse.

IMO any medical professional cannot be trusted with private information these days. It is also wise not to talk to neighbors, and never get in open arguments with family members. It sucks that we have to hide our lives, but government has got so twisted as to who is in charge that anything will be used against us.
 

joanie

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The FFL will have the transaction number. He is required by federal laws/regulations to retain it for 5 years and provide it to you upon request.

He don't seem too worried, and he really can't be bothered with it right now. Maybe he will call me Wednsday.

I actually suspect that there is more than an iota of truth in what you say. I have the utmost sympathy for whatever you're going through. But your inability to differentiate between the abuse you've suffered and everything else says to me you need help. Not like, oh you're criminal scum, go to jail.

You have made your opinions very clear, so stay with them, I don't require your sympathy or replys. "iota of truth" huh. So the rest must be lies then I take it.

the FFL has the transaction number and is required to give it to you. Just call him up and ask him for it. If he refuses to give it to you, call the nearest ATF office and tell them the FFL refuses to give you the transaction number. (Seriously, pitting Da Man against Da Other Man ought to fill you with giggles.)


What makes you think I haven't called him? and what makes you think that I'm petty enough to have the giggles by trying to use one form of corruption to combat another? Also, whats to stop him from lying and say he already gave me the number? He did give me the phone number to NICS, thats all he gave me.


Are you taking the advice being given to you, or are you trying to figure out how you can go to some court to get the denial overturned? Option A has a high probability of success, while Option B has absolutely no probability of sucess. It does not matter how many times you snap your fingers, or click your heels, or spit over your left shoulder - the only way to attempt to get a denial reversed is to follow EXACTLY the steps that have been shown to you for appealing a denial. Forget "Fool me once ...." You will be better served working with "If one person calls you a fool ...." I'm not sure but I believe the count is around six at this point.

I can only guess what your asking as that was a confusing reply. I only said this was a slow process, and no, I'm not interested in buying this rifle anymore, Not even thinking about that or passing this stupid check. I'm trying to find out where I stand as far as owning firearms and openly carrying them. Only no one who might know seems to want to tell me. Do I have a 2ed amendment right? My guess is no. I might have it on paper, in theroy, just like the 4th, but just as the 4th thats been repeatedly violated mostly by the Franklin county sheriffs dept, I really don't have rights or freedoms. Most here do have it more than I, but I doubt very much that it's set in stone the way you probibly think it is.


My advice - call your county Sheriff's office and ask if they can assist. If there's an active warrant or something, they likely got a call on it anyhow.


Oh, they'll get a good laugh out of that and if thats all they get, I'd be lucky. If they so much as suspect I might have or be interested in guns, they will, not might, look for ways to take them, and me. But I guess thats just crazy talk on my part because Sergent Brown and his nefue Terry Brown are really great people who would never abuse their power, lie, or bait anyone.


I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it is a legal requirement for you to be present when the NICS check is called in. Likewise, he probably didn't mention it because it's a requirement for all transfers from an FFL, period.

Yes, he did that with me there before he told me I didn't pass the check. But weeks eariler on the phone, it was "all you need is a drivers liscense" and to pay the tax, theres no background check required" I knew I had things on my record, lies false reports and such, I knew I might not pass a check to buy a gun. I would never have drove 200 miles on a maybe. The seller lied, or I'm lying now, you decide.

As far the last part - to be blunt, you were already a slave. The government lays claim to a significant chunk of your income, and claims the right to send you off to war if it so chooses

Or in my case, jail and other forms of lock up. But your right, so whats the point in even tring to follow the law when the law is so corrupt as to make me a criminal no matter how much I try not to be? Sometimes I think i'd be better served if I was dishonest. True criminals, really bad people, seem to relate so much better with the police. Cops can't hate them too much, because they are just like them.
 

marshaul

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IMO any medical professional cannot be trusted with private information these days. It is also wise not to talk to neighbors, and never get in open arguments with family members. It sucks that we have to hide our lives, but government has got so twisted as to who is in charge that anything will be used against us.

It is unfortunate for those who need the assistance of a medical professional.
 

joanie

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I only went so far because the deal seemed good, my mistake and one that cost me 100 dollars in gas and time.
 
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wrightme

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You got me, I was trying to get away with something, as the police say, I'm up to no good. Just trying to get out of paying 1,800 by opting for a price of 1,299 .... But losing 50 dollars in the cost of gas isn't punnishment enough, I need my guns all taken and to spend the next 55 years in prison for trying to get a good deal. I could get out at the age off 100 in 2069, by then, just about everyone should have their rights and freedoms taken as well.

Oh, stuff the hyperbole.


If he is an FFL dealer, and he TOLD you there wouldn't be a bg check, report him and shut up already.

If you flagged on the BG, get the id from him and get the information through channels already.


Whining and ranting in here will accomplish nothing except for alienating those who read your posts.
 

WalkingWolf

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You got me, I was trying to get away with something, as the police say, I'm up to no good. Just trying to get out of paying 1,800 by opting for a price of 1,299 .... But losing 50 dollars in the cost of gas isn't punnishment enough, I need my guns all taken and to spend the next 55 years in prison for trying to get a good deal. I could get out at the age off 100 in 2069, by then, just about everyone should have their rights and freedoms taken as well.

Please do yourself a favor, and stop adding gasoline to the fire by posting in anger or frustration. Contact a attorney after you learn the reason for the denial. But please limit your posting, and the style, it can be used against you. And at this point getting rid of your firearms is premature, until you find out what is going on.
 

eye95

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The appeal form online requires that transaction number, I am currently working on getting it...

What "working on getting it"???

Just ask. Tell him you are appealing the deny. If he refuses to tell you (unless he is a total moron, he won't), tell him that you will inform the FBI and the ATF that he is illegally withholding the number. He won't risk his FFL by not following the procedures. You'll get the number.

It ain't a State secret.
 

eye95

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I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it is a legal requirement for you to be present when the NICS check is called in...

Nope. Not required.

The transferee has to be there in person to fill out the 4473. He doesn't have to be there when the check is run. Most FFLs use computers to do the NICS check, which truly is "instant," so the transferee is usually right there, but does not have to be.

I only have to have the 4473 with the transferee's answers and his signature in front of me when I run the NICS check, not the transferee himself.
 

joanie

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hyperbole? what making up words now?

What "working on getting it"??? Just ask. Tell him you are appealing the deny. If he refuses to tell you (unless he is a total moron, he won't), tell him that you will inform the FBI and the ATF that he is illegally withholding the number. He won't risk his FFL by not following the procedures. You'll get the number. It ain't a State secret.

I did, I called, I asked. He is busy, he is off on some errand, he can't be bothered with it right now. I thought I mentioned that. But If he feels like messing with it, he might get back with me on Wednsday. What should I expect of someone who lied to me about selling me the item? Also, I did talk to an attorney breifly, will again next week. I don't know what this seller's sick game is, but I think maybe others should be warned of his scam.


Nope. Not required. The transferee has to be there in person to fill out the 4473. He doesn't have to be there when the check is run. Most FFLs use computers to do the NICS check, which truly is "instant," so the transferee is usually right there, but does not have to be. I only have to have the 4473 with the transferee's answers and his signature in front of me when I run the NICS check, not the transferee himself. .

Well now, he could have ran this check and saved me the trip. If I passed the check, then I could have went and filled out the form. In any case I had the items in question removed from here. most will be sold, a couple will be saved, but for now, I'm no longer a threat. I am no longer in possesion of them, rejoice. Maybe this is a blessing in desiguse, If I had been stopped open carrying, and this came up, I'd be in a world of U no What.
 
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