Summer 2009 Milwaukee Open Carry Picnic: May 25th, 2009 (Memorial Day), Time: 3PM-7PM

[dmworken]

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Mr. Greg,

Bravo, sir!! Having rules are a good thing and keeps orders among our peers.

 

[BJA]

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Mr. Greg We may want to look into actually measuring from the school ourselves, by hand. We cannot be semi-sure about the school zone, we must be absolutely sure. Also so we have accesable parking NOT within the school zone right?

Ben

 

[semperfiws6]

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I would like to go (and bring my wife)to this barring some unforseen circumstance or issue. I just registered here once I read about it on ar15.com (same username). If I cant make it I can definitely donate some funds to the cause. Beforehand if necessary.

So count me in.

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

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Open Carry Picnic Media Coverage!!!

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/43347632.html

A group of Wisconsin gun advocates is planning a picnic in July with food, soft drinks and handguns

 

[patriotguy]

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The article stated a July picnic, but not the May picnic. I sent an email to the three reporters credited for the article, inviting them to view the forum to know when the picnics would take place. We are, after all, inviting media coverage, and while they can find the forum easy enough themselves, I thought a polite email was in order.

Regards.

 

[Mr. Greg]

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I've just received a voicemail from Laura(?) Schlessor at Milwaukee County Parks, asking me to give her a call back. (Number showed up as Withheld on my Caller ID, and I don't like to answer phone calls that are like that, as they're usually telemarketers wasting my precious cell phone minutes). Looks like this spread a bit faster than I thought it did.

Just attempted to return her call, got her voicemail. Her voicemail greeting was something akin to "Safety and Security Officer of Milwaukee County Parks."

I gave no false information in my Park reservation, nor will we be breaking any laws, so I can assume the worst that they can do will revoke our reservation.

 

[Mr. Greg]

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BJA wrote:

Mr. Greg We may want to look into actually measuring from the school ourselves, by hand. We cannot be semi-sure about the school zone, we must be absolutely sure. Also so we have accesable parking NOT within the school zone right?

Ben

Definitely a good idea, just to be sure. I'm unfortunately out of state at the moment though, so the first chance I'd have to do it is in a few weeks.

Using at least two maps, though (One of which provided by Milwaukee County Parks), it's clearly evident that we're well past the 1000 foot distance. Still, like you said, it's best to measure ourselves, as it shows that we're determined to follow the law, and not skirt it.

 

[Mr. Greg]

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Just got off the phone with Laura Schlessor. She wanted to call me and inform me that she was made aware of this thread, and to make sure I was aware that there is a Milwaukee County Law prohibiting the posession of firearms in County Parks, which there is, Milwaukee County Ordinance 47.05:

(1)Use of firearms and fireworks; hunting with bow and arrow; trapping. No person shall carry, fire or discharge any gun, pistol or firearm, nor any rocket, torpedo or other fireworks of any description, nor shall any person engage in trapping within any park or parkway without a written permit of the department of parks, recreation and culture; nor shall any person hunt with bow and arrow within any park or parkway. No person shall carry, fire or discharge any gun, pistol or firearm, nor any rocket, torpedo or other fireworks of any description upon any premises owed or leased by Milwaukee County which is not part of the county parks and parkways. The word "gun" shall include airgun.

I politely informed her that I was aware of that ordinance, however State Statue 66.0409 Preempts that ordinance:

66.0409. Local regulation of firearms.
(1) In this section:
(a) "Firearm" has the meaning given in s.
167.31 (1) (c).
(b) "Political subdivision" means a city,
village, town or county.
(c) "Sport shooting range" means an area designed and operated for the practice of weapons used in hunting, skeet shooting and similar sport shooting.
(2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
(3)(a) Nothing in this section prohibits a county from imposing a sales tax or use tax under subchapter V of chapter 77 on any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, sold in the county.
(b) Nothing in this section prohibits a city, village or town that is authorized to exercise village powers under s. 60.22 (3) from enacting an ordinance or adopting a resolution that restricts the discharge of a firearm.
(4)(a) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision from continuing to enforce an ordinance or resolution that is in effect on November 18, 1995, and that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, if the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute. transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components,
(am) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision from continuing to enforce until November 30, 1998, an ordinance or resolution that is in effect on November 18, 1995, and that requires a waiting period of not more than 7 days for the purchase of a handgun.
(b) If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17, 1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or
taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.
(c) Nothing in this section prohibits a political subdivision from enacting and enforcing a zoning ordinance that regulates the new construction of a sport shooting range or when the expansion of an existing sport shooting range would impact public health and safety.
(5) A county ordinance that is enacted or a county resolution that is adopted by a county under sub. (2) or a county ordinance or resolution that remains in effect under sub. (4) (a) or (am) applies only in those towns in the county that have not enacted an ordinance or adopted a resolution under sub. (2) or that continue to enforce an ordinance or resolution under sub. (4) (a) or (am), except that this subsection does not apply to a sales or use tax that is imposed under subchapter V of chapter 77.

She said she was entirely new to what has happened the past few days, and was glad I informed her of the current laws. She also said she'd give me a call back either tomorrow or Monday to discuss the issue further, once she has spoken to "other individuals" about it.

All in all a good conversation, she was clearly not out to oppress us, just to tell us the current law, and was very receptive to learning parts of the law she was unfamiliar with.

 

[Mr. Greg]

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GJD wrote:

Guys at Glocktalk are talking about our picnic.

Link?

 

[BJA]

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Good job! Yes the 66.0409. Local regulation of firearms should make us immune to the local laws. However depending on which action she and the county takes this could end up a little screwy. I'm actualy glad she brought up that county ordinance. Because now is the time to repeal it LMAO! But..... how long could that take? If we were to attend the picnic we would be breaking local law if it is not repealed. The police would be able to arrest us and take our guns based on the local law makers. BUT if they chose to do that, then they would have a big case on there hands that they are likely to lose.

The county of Milwaukee must be notified of their failure to conform to 66.0409 and IMMEDIATE ACTION must be taken to remove the ordinance and othjer ordinances conflidting with state laws!

WE MUST DEMAND IMMEDIATE REMOVAL NOW! We don't want a grace period for that day, we want it abolished NOW.

Ben

 

[Mr. Greg]

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BJA wrote:

Good job! Yes the 66.0409. Local regulation of firearms should make us immune to the local laws. However depending on which action she and the county takes this could end up a little screwy. I'm actualy glad she brought up that county ordinance. Because now is the time to repeal it LMAO! But..... how long could that take? If we were to attend the picnic we would be breaking local law if it is not repealed. The police would be able to arrest us and take our guns based on the local law makers. BUT if they chose to do that, then they would have a big case on there hands that they are likely to lose.

The county of Milwaukee must be notified of their failure to conform to 66.0409 and IMMEDIATE ACTION must be taken to remove the ordinance and othjer ordinances conflidting with state laws!

WE MUST DEMAND IMMEDIATE REMOVAL NOW! We don't want a grace period for that day, we want it abolished NOW.

Ben

It's not a case of "should," it's a case of "will." Both Brad and Jesus broke local law with the open carrying of a firearm, and both had their cases thrown out because of the Preemption Statue. If law enforcement chooses to break the law and detain us, expect court time, but as long as we were doing nothing other than having a picnic in the park, I see no reason why our cases would not be thrown out as well.

 

[pvtschultz]

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I've never been arrested before...this could be fun!

 

[BJA]

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I have called around sheriffs office, and other various county positions in regards to the local regulation. Only the sheriffs office answered. I talk to an employee of the sheriffs office, I forget his title. He was very curtious. However he did say that the local ordinance WILL be enforced, and that the prosectutors will have to sort it out. You WILL be arrested if you carry in county parks, despite what the state statute says.



Ben :banghead:

 

[Mr. Greg]

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BJA wrote:

I have called around sheriffs office, and other various county positions in regards to the local regulation. Only the sheriffs office answered. I talk to an employee of the sheriffs office, I forget his title. He was very curtious. However he did say that the local ordinance WILL be enforced, and that the prosectutors will have to sort it out. You WILL be arrested if you carry in county parks, despite what the state statute says.



Ben :banghead:

Yes, and as frustrating as that is, it's just something we'll have to deal with. I only hope what JB Van Hollen has said on Monday will change that policy, and save taxpayer money from being wasted by having 15+ hearings on charges that will be thrown out.

Your saying how only one office answered is exactly why a notification will be delivered in person, and won't be a random phone call.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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Mr. Greg wrote:

BJA wrote:

I have called around sheriffs office, and other various county positions in regards to the local regulation. Only the sheriffs office answered. I talk to an employee of the sheriffs office, I forget his title. He was very curtious. However he did say that the local ordinance WILL be enforced, and that the prosectutors will have to sort it out. You WILL be arrested if you carry in county parks, despite what the state statute says.



Ben :banghead:

Yes, and as frustrating as that is, it's just something we'll have to deal with. I only hope what JB Van Hollen has said on Monday will change that policy, and save taxpayer money from being wasted by having 15+ hearings on charges that will be thrown out.

Your saying how only one office answered is exactly why a notification will be delivered in person, and won't be a random phone call.

Unfortunately, if they are going to arrest those that are open carrying at the this park, then I won't be attending. I am 39 , never been arrested& aint gonna start now. IDon't have disposable income for lawyers, citations, driving back and forth to Milwaukee for court dates is out of the question, I am a small business owner and certainly don't have the time for this BS. maybe we need to have this somewhere else ??? maybenot a county park ? possible someones private property ? otherwise no one is gonna show up carrying, ok maybe you will....but this will defeat the reason for this picnic....

count me out if they are going to bearresting the lot of us...sorry.

 

[Mr. Greg]

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Glock34 wrote:

Unfortunately, if they are going to arrest those that are open carrying at the this park, then I won't be attending. I am 39 , never been arrested& aint gonna start now. IDon't have disposable income for lawyers, citations, driving back and forth to Milwaukee for court dates is out of the question, I am a small business owner and certainly don't have the time for this BS. maybe we need to have this somewhere else ??? maybenot a county park ? possible someones private property ? otherwise no one is gonna show up carrying, ok maybe you will....but this will defeat the reason for this picnic....

count me out if they are going to bearresting the lot of us...sorry.

What?

JB Van Hollen's memo carries no official weight, but is simply his opinion on what the law states. Seeing as there have been two cases in the past year reflecting exactly what he has concluded, I'd say he's spot on with his opinion.

I am not a lawyer, nor an elected official, and cannot predict the actions of LEOs.

My honest, non-legal, non-binding, completely-on-my-own opinion? If there's media there, cameras rolling, witnesses everywhere, and we're not doing anything other than simply eating our grilled food, they won't arrest us.

Look what happened to Brad Krause back on Tuesday: http://www.wisn.com/news/19235901/detail.html

WAPD responded to a call about a man carrying a firearm, WISN 12 was there filming the entire exchange, and they didn't detain him, because he was within his rights, and they could find no reason to. Because they were on camera the entire time, the last thing they wanted was a video of them doing exactly what Ed Flynn told his Milwaukee PD "troops" to do, because they know actions like that are grounds for civil rights lawsuits, and that time, Krause would have video proof of violation of rights.

I expected to be questioned by police at the picnic, and I would go so far as to expect police to be there the entire time. Again, though, with our activity now known to be within the law, and with cameras (both media and picnic attendee) rolling on our every move, I sincerly doubt that police would waste taxpayer dollars in hearings and lawsuits for breaching the rights of someone lawfully open carrying.

If you choose not to attend because of that risk, that's your decision.

 

[GJD]

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They are just trying to scare us off - they well know that the ordnance is illegal now. I'm sure they dont have millions of dollars lying around to pay us as a result of a class action lawsuit.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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I am still planning on attending, but the holster& pistol may or my notremain in the vehicle. I am bringing a camera regardless.

 

[Mr. Greg]

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Glock34 wrote:

I am still planning on attending, but the holster& pistol may or my notremain in the vehicle. I am bringing a camera regardless.

Good.

The more cameras, the better.

 

[pvtschultz]

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All,

I just contacted County Exec. Walker, Alderperson Sanfellipo, Mayor Dan Devine (I am from Stallis), and every member of the West Allis Common Council with the below message. I will carry that day knowing that I risk prosecution and persecution. Maybe if we get the word out now, we won't have to worry about wearing bracelets and they'll just let us eat out chips and dogs and drink our sodas.

I did change the wording to the county guys to include that county ordinance prohibiting firearms in parks asking them to repeal it at once.



Dear __________:

I am writing to you today regarding the memo from the state attorney general’s office underlining the rights of the citizens of Wisconsin to carry a side arm so long as it is not concealed. Additionally, a large group of citizens of the metropolitan Milwaukee area are scheduling a picnic in Greenfield Park to occur on Memorial Day where we intend to exercise our rights under Article 1, Section 25 of the WI Constitution with the support of State Statue 66.0409 which preempts any local ordinances regulating firearms. Additionally, I ask that the City of West Allis adopt the following resolution:

WHEREAS, The Common Council of West Allis, Wisconsin affirms that the people have the constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.

WHEREAS, the concealed carry of firearms is prohibited by Wisconsin Statute 941.23.

BE IT RESOLVED, that open carry is not an unlawful means to exercise these rights, and that no one may restrict a citizen's lawful exercise of these constitutionally protected rights.

If you choose not to act on the aforementioned resolution, the least that I ask is for an explaination of the reason for failure or refusal to act.

Very best regards,

Carl Schultz

West Allis, WI

We'll see what I get in response.