Drawn on by Missouri State Patrolman

[Richieg150]

Well said. It seems as though there are a lot of folks here who claim to be staunch advocates for freedom and liberty yet who are so very vocal in condemning those who don't exercise that freedom and liberty in a manner with which they agree.

Seems to be a lot of that going around....divide and conquer comes to mind... Be quick to listen and slow to speak, would help many in this thread.I have on more than 1 occasion, done just the opposite, then after giving much thought, wish I could take back what I have said...I am getting better. I'm a work in progress. Learning to choose what I say more carefully and pick my battles. Bess, did it HIS way, nthing wrong with that, and trying to blame him for the defeat of ANY bill...please put down your glass of coolaid.

 

[LMTD]

After reading this thread from start until now I have come to the conclusion that the ones that were walking the halls of the capitol pushing for pre-emption on OC knew or should have known that they were beating a dead horse again. I believe that a certain Senator's bill was introduced just to placate his constituents as it never moved at all.
The Bess incident was just an excuse by the spineless in the elected offices in the capitol to sit on all OC bills. And those that were walking the halls jumped on that incident as the excuse for the whole she bang going down in flames.

JMHO....................

Again you are flappin your trap about things you are clueless about.

I just got back online after a computer failure and my other computer was in Memphis for the month. I had no reason to buy one just to satisfy the wants of those who simply watched things happen instead of working to make them happen.

Your belief of what the Senator's bill motivation again is based upon your own inability to look at the picture your own self so your belief will always be screwed. If you look at the make up of the committee it was placed into and then have a clue about the political 2a position of persons on it, then you would know that was indeed the day 680 dies under threat of filibuster. Perhaps if more persons would look at it instead of fabricating bull shirt "beliefs" such as you outlined above we would not be in this world of shirt in MO politics eh?

Bess's incident had huge bad timing and he had been asked not to do it, it is what happened and nothing is going to change it. The only thing it impacted was a last moment "clerical" change similar to one not so long ago, but in our favor. After the press got a hold of the incident and the sheriff postured himself we were pretty much drowning after trying to tread water. Would it have happened without Bess's stirring up crap in washington, can't say, not real confident, but do know that immediately after the incident no one wanted to talk anymore.

As far as this specific incident goes, Bess has all the same rights as anyone else. He should NOT have been detained, it is indeed however not quite that simple. Understanding that not only is it clear he went looking for an incident as he often does, it remains quite possible that he reported himself or had one of his friends report him so as to assure an incident took place, he has offered to do so before and has made it clear he will go out of his way to engage police when OC'ing. None of that is illegal depending upon how it may have been reported.

Now in the interest of pure argument, certian highways in MO are restricted access, I do not know if 100 allows pedestrians or not, do you? you did see the guard rail and he was walking on the shoulder, if it is restricted access, they had every reason in the world to stop, he was breaking the law.

I am not saying it IS A restricted access, I am saying I do not know about that section and just because he was not cited for it does not mean it was not illegal.

Who cares, the incident is over, session is over and this attention is some of exactly what he craves so say your part, but I am likely out of this thread so as not to feed into his desires.

 

[SavageOne]

Wow LMTD, first you accuse someone of "flappin your trap about things you are clueless about", then you proceed to flap your trap about things you are clueless about. You may have the makings of a politician after all. I have neither seen nor heard any allegations that Bess called a report in on himself, or that anyone who knows him did so. You, however, won't let that stop you from making a such a claim without any proof. You then claim he may have been on a restricted section of highway, even though you admit you have no clue if it is or not. If you don't have any evidence to back up your allegations, please don't make them.

By the way, aren't you suppose to posting your little diary of events from the capital. I mean you are the one who said it was your job to do so.

 

[Festus_Hagen]

I have to ask Rich, why are you still wasting your time on these jokers ? :lol:

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

If one is not predisposed to commit a crime, no amount of "baiting" will cause him to commit that crime.
As someone else on OCDO wrote not too long ago, a grocery bag of cocaine sitting on my front sidewalk will still be sitting there, untouched by me, whenever the cops decide to arrive (if they do), because I have no interest in it (aside from the academic research sort of curiosity about "how does it feel?")

THIS.

IMHO this is the ultimate and perfect point to this entire discussion.

 

[LMTD]

Wow LMTD, first you accuse someone of "flappin your trap about things you are clueless about", then you proceed to flap your trap about things you are clueless about. You may have the makings of a politician after all. I have neither seen nor heard any allegations that Bess called a report in on himself, or that anyone who knows him did so. You, however, won't let that stop you from making a such a claim without any proof. You then claim he may have been on a restricted section of highway, even though you admit you have no clue if it is or not. If you don't have any evidence to back up your allegations, please don't make them.

By the way, aren't you suppose to posting your little diary of events from the capital. I mean you are the one who said it was your job to do so.

I wasn't flapping my trap, I was stating possibilities based on facts, all of which exist on this very forum. The only thing I have not got factual information on is whether he is legally allowed to walk on that section of highway. Something I clearly identified I was unsure of, so did you have a point?

I believe I stated I would do it, since you have stated it is my job, perhaps you could begin payment for services, I bill out at 300 an hour, you can send the first 100 hours this week if you like.

 

[SavageOne]

I wasn't flapping my trap, I was stating possibilities based on facts, all of which exist on this very forum. The only thing I have not got factual information on is whether he is legally allowed to walk on that section of highway. Something I clearly identified I was unsure of, so did you have a point?

I believe I stated I would do it, since you have stated it is my job, perhaps you could begin payment for services, I bill out at 300 an hour, you can send the first 100 hours this week if you like.

See, here is a great example of you and your "facts". I never stated it was your job,(notice the bolded "you" in my post you quoted) you did, in this thread, post #4.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?102412-Probably-last-post-for-ocdc

If you are going to charge the person who gave you the job, I suggest you make that check out to yourself. I think your getting ripped off though, the guy's not worth it, he can't even get his facts straight.

 

[LMTD]

See, here is a great example of you and your "facts". I never stated it was your job,(notice the bolded "you" in my post you quoted) you did, in this thread, post #4.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?102412-Probably-last-post-for-ocdc

If you are going to charge the person who gave you the job, I suggest you make that check out to yourself. I think your getting ripped off though, the guy's not worth it, he can't even get his facts straight.

My facts are indeed perfectly straight and you know it. You have been on this forum for long enough to know it. Why you seek to stir shirt I have no clue but feel free. Nothing I said about the incident was untrue as you implied, pretty much limits your ability to back out of it and now you reach for the job thing, lol hook, line and sinker pup.

 

[OC for ME]

No law against walking on 100.

Pedestrians walking along roadways. 300.405.
1. Where sidewalks are provided it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.

2. Where sidewalks are not provided any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall when practicable walk only on the left side of the roadway or its shoulder facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes\c300-399\3000000405.htm

Thug cops and spineless back-stabbing Jeff City elected vermin. We got played by those elected vermin. I wouldn't be surprised if those thug cops were told to be on the look-out for Bess by their thug cop bosses....knowing what was going down in Jeff City at the time.

 

[MainelyGlock]

How about EVERYONE on OCDO requesting a copy of the report, or FOIA the radio traffic for this event...

Just think, if every time an LEO harassed a lawful OCer--anywhere in the country--and within a few days they received THOUSANDS of FOIA requests--it might start making these LEAs think twice before letting their officers get away with this sort of thuggery.

Not only would these request cause them all sorts of expenses, but it would let them know that there were THOUSANDS of people all over teh country who were watching them, and concerned with ensuring that LEOs operate within the bounds of the law.

We need to stop acting like we are guaranteed a "win" on this issue, and start using some SERIOUSLY aggressive bureaucratic and administrative tactics--using the "system" against itself. Perhaps the occasional avalanche of paperwork might be a bit of a deterrent to these scoff-law LEAs...

I really like this idea!

 

[MSG Laigaie]

Activism must start somewhere. It can be your decision to actually start wearing that weapon or a decided effort to get signatures to put something on a Ballot. You may do legal acts in front of those (LEOs) who you KNOW do not approve. Every act is an education. Some to people who observe and some to the actors themselves. I want to see an ACTIVE increase of people not getting upset because I OC.
ac·ti·vate (kt-vt)
tr.v. ac·ti·vat·ed, ac·ti·vat·ing, ac·ti·vates
1. To set in motion; make active or more active.
2. To organize or create (a military unit, for example): activate the National Guard.
3. To treat (sewage) with aeration and bacteria to aid decomposition.
4. Chemistry To accelerate a reaction in, as by heat.
5. Physics To make (a substance) radioactive.
6. Biology To convert (certain biological compounds) into biologically active derivatives

 

[OC for ME]

How about a persistent ambivalence towards your firearm by the vast majority of your fellow citizens? Would that be OK?

 

[Citizen]

How about EVERYONE on OCDO requesting a copy of the report, or FOIA the radio traffic for this event...

Just think, if every time an LEO harassed a lawful OCer--anywhere in the country--and within a few days they received THOUSANDS of FOIA requests--it might start making these LEAs think twice before letting their officers get away with this sort of thuggery.

Not only would these request cause them all sorts of expenses, but it would let them know that there were THOUSANDS of people all over teh country who were watching them, and concerned with ensuring that LEOs operate within the bounds of the law.

We need to stop acting like we are guaranteed a "win" on this issue, and start using some SERIOUSLY aggressive bureaucratic and administrative tactics--using the "system" against itself. Perhaps the occasional avalanche of paperwork might be a bit of a deterrent to these scoff-law LEAs...

This is a brilliant idea!

From now on, a separate thread for the FOIA Avalanche. To keep costs down, the first several guys can split up the targeted records. One member can request the field contact report. Another, the dash cam recording. Another, the 911 dispatch call.

The police agency, if the state statute authorizes it, can charge the requester for the time it takes to search for, produce, and copy the requested government record. But, after about the second or third request, they won't be able to justify searching for the record. They will have already found it.

I can say from my experience that it will take a lot of time just to write the cover letters that accompany a mailed response. Imagine if they wrote one response, but had to change the addressee and make a new envelope 40, 50, 100, 1000 times. Oh, my.

 

[LMTD]

No law against walking on 100.

Thug cops and spineless back-stabbing Jeff City elected vermin. We got played by those elected vermin. I wouldn't be surprised if those thug cops were told to be on the look-out for Bess by their thug cop bosses....knowing what was going down in Jeff City at the time.

I think I would have to agree, they were quite happy to have the story play out and it had great timing for them and they got a chance to work the libtard media into the mix as well.

Without regard for contrary opinions, there are two methods in which OC is likely to come to MO.

1. through the legislature, in which case events like this and negative press are ALWAYS going to hinder.
2. through a court revisit of A1sec23 vs 21.750 application which is likely to require a MOSC challenge which it will take an event like this to trigger. (not too likely)

Glad to hear no law on walking on the hwy, always kinda wondered how states got away with it when it came to the right of free passage. If you can't walk on the road, you can't trespass on others land WTF where is free passage? I know IL has this regulation and since nothing exist beyond interstates and ferry's to get across, is one forced to swim/boat/raft the Mississippi to have free passage etc?

Interesting year, that is for sure.

 

[9026543]

This old brush ape has the opinion that pre-emption would have been ignored this year if no one had OC'ed for 1 year before the last session. Just to many spineless people to overcome.

 

[LMTD]

This old brush ape has the opinion that pre-emption would have been ignored this year if no one had OC'ed for 1 year before the last session. Just to many spineless people to overcome.

With the make up of the committee and the filibuster method still within use, Bess could have MARRIED one of the anti's on the committee and it would still have died. It was other methodologies that became too hot to handle after the event. I would still only have given it a 30/70 chance, perhaps even less, but once it happened it was clearly over, that is just the way it is whether folks like it or not.

We see Bray,Justus and the other anti-advocates boosted from office, we might get another shot, but that is going to require more than most are willing to put forth, money and effort. You just can't beat a multi-senator filibuster, there just no path around it if they won't talk.

 

[peterarthur]

The great thing about America is that, so long as a behavior is legal, or opinion on whether or not it is a good idea means jack *hit.



At what point was he in power, or at what point did he try to make that happen?



Those who are paid to enforce the laws should not have to be educated on the laws by the citizens. If I have broken no laws, and someone decides to forcibly stop me, politeness is the last thing he should expect to get from me, whether or not he wears shiny, government-issued costume jewelry on his chest.



I'd like a Corvette, a Barrett .50, and a hot girl on my arm. Like my dad always said, "Wish in one hand, and *hit in the other one, and see which one fills up first."



Why would anyone respect a job? There are very few things in the world deserving of my respect, and titles are not one of them.

Remember, just like any other government employee, police officers make an economic calculation in which they decide that government salary and benefits, extorted from the taxpayers, are worth any [negligible] risks they assume. Postal delivery drivers have a slightly higher-than-average risk of dying in motor vehicle incidents, compared to the general public.

Keep in mind that police officers don't even make the top 10 list of occupational mortality. The pizza boy who brings you dinner tonight has a higher likelihood of dying in the line of duty than any cop. Not only that, but he has a real job, producing a useful good or service that others desire to voluntarily purchase.

There is no draft for cops; if one of them can't perform his job while respecting the rights and lawful behavior of each and every citizen he encounters, without being too "scaaaaaaaaared," he should find more suitable work in the productive sector.

+100000

 

[peterarthur]

I am sure, however, that you will agree that even the "radical activist" is still endowed with the same enumerated rights as the person only trying to raise awareness. That being the case, the radical is under no obligation to limit how they exercise those rights.

I have said it previously, and I will say it again, if a persons chooses to OC only to "bait" the police, that is as legitimate a reason to OC, as any you or I have. As long as their exercise of their rights does not harm another or directly hinder the exercise of someone else's rights, the why is immaterial.

Some may carry to normalize, some may carry for defense, some may carry to provoke. They are all legitimate reasons and all equally correct, because they are all personal.

Well said!

 

[peterarthur]

Who cares, the incident is over, session is over and this attention is some of exactly what he craves so say your part, but I am likely out of this thread so as not to feed into his desires.

LOL... too late, you responded and fed into his desires

 

[peterarthur]

I wasn't flapping my trap, I was stating possibilities based on facts, all of which exist on this very forum. The only thing I have not got factual information on is whether he is legally allowed to walk on that section of highway. Something I clearly identified I was unsure of, so did you have a point?

I believe I stated I would do it, since you have stated it is my job, perhaps you could begin payment for services, I bill out at 300 an hour, you can send the first 100 hours this week if you like.

First, sorry, sir, but someone who claims to bill out at $300 per hour should be able to write more coherent sentences, especially when talking down to most of the thread participants. So I present my facts, not assumptions, thusly:

"Your belief of what the Senator's bill motivation again is based upon your own inability to look at the picture your own self so your belief will always be screwed". I will just let that speak for itself.

Secondly, not a single person in this forum or anywhere in our country has to explain themselves, their motivations or actions to another, as long as those actions and motivations are legal and not infringing on the rights of others. None of us has an obligation to any other to help "represent" OC in any particular manner. While Bess may have had bad timing as far as some are concerned, he had ZERO obligation to time it any other way or to act any differently than he is inclined.

One of the main POINTS of the Constitution is that we are free NATURALLY, and the desire by some, regardless of how "pure" the motives, to control or direct or "suggest" the actions of others, is the germination of tyranny, and the people in this forum, above most others, should know better.