Warning shot, or not...

[MilProGuy]

Warning shots are NEVER a good idea. No matter what the situation is. Never mind the legal ramifications. It's the law of physics. What goes up must come down. That "warning shot" will come down at almost nearly the velocity it was shot. Who knows where it will land. It could hit the person who fired it in the first place. Way to go smart one, you shot yourself instead of the badguy. Warning shots also take to much time.

NEVER shoot to injure. You are not shooting to injure or kill. You are shooting to stop the threat. Once they are no longer a threat, you stop shooting. If they live, then good you didn't kill someone. If they die oh well, at least you're not dead. Also not everyone who owns or shoots a weapon is a expert marksman. Add adrenaline to the factor and you still think you can shoot them in the leg or arm? Shoot center of the biggest target area. It increases you chances of landing your shots and making sure you're coming out alive. This ain't the movies.

That's all I have to say about this.

No warning shots. If you fear for your life, draw and shoot to neutralize the threat.

Thanks for a well-crafted post.

 

[Old Grump]

We all know once you’ve pulled the trigger, you own the bullet. In the holster it’s a pistol, pull it in self defense, it becomes a weapon. If you fire a warning shot have you admitted being in fear for your life, is it justified? If so, why wasn’t the weapon pointed at the source of the threat instead of being directed towards the unknown. Can you claim; beyond a doubt, the shot was safe, with out reckless disregard? Do you fire to wound and take a chance of missing or, take a safe shot at center mass? Always, so little time with so much to conceder. Just a thought, boar out.

You are kidding right, I mean this post was just a joke to see if you could get a response.

Warning shot, shoot to wound, where you been? You aren't the lone Ranger who can hit a fly at 90 yards shooting from the hip and the boogerman that caused you to draw the gun in the first place isn't going by some Hollywood script that says his weapon will fly out of his hand thanks to your marvelous shooting skill. If you have to draw and he doesn't surrender or turn around and leave in a hurry but continues to be a threat you shoot him. You shoot him till he drops and gives up, is obviously out of the fight or he expires. This is real life, you better get real or trade in your guns for a tin cup because he is going to take what you have and you will be on the street begging for lunch money....if he doesn't kill you first.

 

[SFCRetired]

Going along with the general tone of the thread (and I hope not too far off subject), would you agree to the following sequence of events;

1. Initial assessment of situation - identify if BG/not BG - if BG, draw weapon
2. If BG, yell, "Halt" (with the number of immigrants, both legal and illegal, increasing, I would use "halt" because it is the same in several languages)
3. Immediate re-assessment - BG stopped/end action - BG continues, go to #4
4. Aim for center of mass and fire one round - BG stops, end action - BG continues, go to #5
5. Repeat #4 as necessary to stop threat.
6. Threat stopped, BG down, call 911 and report attack by BG, request police and ambulance.

Keep in mind that, if you have trained for this sort of scenario, all of those actions should be automatic and should take place within seconds, if not fractions of a second.

Now, someone please tell this old soldier how far off the mark he is. I put this together after reading this thread and putting some thought into what all of you are saying.

 

[Viper]

Going along with the general tone of the thread (and I hope not too far off subject), would you agree to the following sequence of events;

1. Initial assessment of situation - identify if BG/not BG - if BG, draw weapon
2. If BG, yell, "Halt" (with the number of immigrants, both legal and illegal, increasing, I would use "halt" because it is the same in several languages)
3. Immediate re-assessment - BG stopped/end action - BG continues, go to #4
4. Aim for center of mass and fire one round - BG stops, end action - BG continues, go to #5
5. Repeat #4 as necessary to stop threat.
6. Threat stopped, BG down, call 911 and report attack by BG, request police and ambulance.

Keep in mind that, if you have trained for this sort of scenario, all of those actions should be automatic and should take place within seconds, if not fractions of a second.

Now, someone please tell this old soldier how far off the mark he is. I put this together after reading this thread and putting some thought into what all of you are saying.

This is my immediate action drill. Very good to see it in writing.

 

[HandyHamlet]

Warning shot, shoot to wound, where you been? You aren't the lone Ranger who can hit a fly at 90 yards shooting from the hip and the boogerman that caused you to draw the gun in the first place isn't going by some Hollywood script that says his weapon will fly out of his hand thanks to your marvelous shooting skill. If you have to draw and he doesn't surrender or turn around and leave in a hurry but continues to be a threat you shoot him. You shoot him till he drops and gives up, is obviously out of the fight or he expires. This is real life, you better get real or trade in your guns for a tin cup because he is going to take what you have and you will be on the street begging for lunch money....if he doesn't kill you first.

That's exactly what wild boar said.

 

[Outdoorsman1]

Going along with the general tone of the thread (and I hope not too far off subject), would you agree to the following sequence of events;

1. Initial assessment of situation - identify if BG/not BG - if BG, draw weapon
2. If BG, yell, "Halt" (with the number of immigrants, both legal and illegal, increasing, I would use "halt" because it is the same in several languages)
3. Immediate re-assessment - BG stopped/end action - BG continues, go to #4
4. Aim for center of mass and fire one round - BG stops, end action - BG continues, go to #5
5. Repeat #4 as necessary to stop threat.
6. Threat stopped, BG down, call 911 and report attack by BG, request police and ambulance.

Keep in mind that, if you have trained for this sort of scenario, all of those actions should be automatic and should take place within seconds, if not fractions of a second.

Now, someone please tell this old soldier how far off the mark he is. I put this together after reading this thread and putting some thought into what all of you are saying.

Somewhere between three and four I would access the area behind my intended target making sure it was all clear to fire....

Outdoorsman1

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

.. You shoot him till he drops and gives up, is obviously out of the fight or he expires...

You must justify every shot fired. Whether it is the first or last shot, there must be an imminent threat to your life. You may not continue shooting if he drops his weapon or starts to break contact. Even if he is still armed, you may not shoot someone seeking egress.

 

[Old Grump]

You must justify every shot fired. Whether it is the first or last shot, there must be an imminent threat to your life. You may not continue shooting if he drops his weapon or starts to break contact. Even if he is still armed, you may not shoot someone seeking egress.

You didn't read my whole post did you? I said that you only shoot if you are in danger. You keep shooting till you aren't in danger. The two points are know when you are in legitimate danger and are allowed to shoot and being able to hit your target without collateral damage. This isn't a game. If the man drops his weapon and isn't threatening you then you are obviously not in danger, talk about pointing out the obvious. If you see his back and he is leaving you are not in danger but if he keeps his gun you don't put yours away either.

What you don't do is put a bullet into the ground or the ceiling or into the air in the hopes of frightening the boogerman, that is insanity. You do not play cowboy and shoot the knee or the gun out of the bad man's hands. I assure you adrenaline level takes that kind of sharp shooting skill from you if you even had it in the first place. Nobody worries about paperwork and accounting for expended ammo in the middle of a firefight, first you survive. If that isn't your intention you are already lost.

 

[wild boar]

Hey, old grump...

...Before you piss any more people off, have someone read the posts to you. It would seem you weren't in school during English. :shocker: boar out.

 

[Brass Magnet]

...Before you piss any more people off, have someone read the posts to you. It would seem you weren't in school during English. :shocker: boar out.

In Oldgrump's defense, I had to read your post several times before I understood what you were trying to say too.....kind of like a Tarintino movie. LOL

Also like a Tarintino movie, you either get it or you don't. ;-P Thank HH for cluing me in.

 

[wild boar]

Your not the first...

...To be at a loss of words when trying to explain my writing style, with that said, I don't know what to say. boar out.

 

[HandyHamlet]

;-P Thank HH for cluing me in.

I am fluent in wild boar. My pleasure.

...To be at a loss of words when trying to explain my writing style, with that said, I don't know what to say. boar out.

HA!

I dig your style and glad you chose to continue your participation with us degenerates.


p.s. Thanks for the buckle! It was good seeing you both at Lizzy's last night.

 

[skidmark]

Going along with the general tone of the thread (and I hope not too far off subject), would you agree to the following sequence of events;

1. Initial assessment of situation - identify if BG/not BG - if BG, draw weapon
2. If BG, yell, "Halt" (with the number of immigrants, both legal and illegal, increasing, I would use "halt" because it is the same in several languages) Good idea, if I have the time and distance on my side to do that in safety.
3. Immediate re-assessment - BG stopped/end action - BG continues, go to #4
4. Aim for center of mass and fire one round - BG stops, end action - BG continues, go to #5 As long as we are talking about immediate stopping of the threat, I'll agree. If not, please see comments below.
5. Repeat #4 as necessary to stop threat. This is sometimes referred to as "shooting them to the ground". It's not the best term but it certainly does describe the intent - that there needs to be a clear indication that the threat has been stopped.
6. Threat stopped, BG down, call 911 and report attack by BG, request police and ambulance.

Keep in mind that, if you have trained for this sort of scenario, all of those actions should be automatic and should take place within seconds, if not fractions of a second. If you have ever been there and done that you know that each step in the OODA Loop (go and read about it) usually takes but the smallest fraction of a second to carry out, but often requires multiple paragraphs to explain.

Now, someone please tell this old soldier how far off the mark he is. I put this together after reading this thread and putting some thought into what all of you are saying.

Pretty darned close, but I'd call it Sharpshooter rather than Expert. With the understanding that it is just about impossible to shoot Expert on this subject because each incident has so many variables and each incident is so different from all the others that went before or will come after. The best we can do is hit the high points, but I really don't think it will ever be possible to put a razor's edge to it. Now if we could just get the prosecutors and the press and the juries to understand why that is so.

stay safe.

 

[wild boar]

Back at cha there H...

...It was nice last night. My daughter and I were stopped by some folks outside who were interested in OC. They hadn't a clue, only whats in the paper. Squared them away, hope they remember. boar out.

 

[wild boar]

Skidmark, this ones for you...

...vizdur mor orzizs azzizs zan darz orzis, its easy. boar out.

 

[SFCRetired]

To address the points brought up by outdoorsman1 and skidmark:

1. In the initial assessment, not only should you be determining if it is a BG or not, you should also be giving the immediate area a very quick scan. I say this for two reasons; does he have an accomplice and what is behind him. I place equal importance on both.

2. Granted that you have to have the time to yell, "Halt" and still be safe, it is also a good point to bring out at the trial if you do have to shoot. As many times as we have stressed carrying a recorder, that should be an easy piece of evidence to introduce. One of our resident lawyers could probably advise far better than I can about whether or not this would help.

3. My points 3 and 4 are almost instantaneous. You fire and, if the BG does not stop, you continue to fire until he does.

FWIW, I would love to be able to set up a safe firing range with realistic targets where the targets would pop up and you would have only a short time to assess, draw, and fire/not fire. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such range available to private citizens anywhere close to where I am. The kind of training you could do at such a range would be literally worth its weight in gold should you ever face the real thing.

skid, in all my years in the service and with the M1 Garand, the M14, the M16, and the German G3, I never failed to fire "Expert". You've just hurt my feelings.

 

[wild boar]

Sarge, though I didn't...

...make a carer out of the ARMY, It most certainly has had a life long impact on me. It was men like you that at times, I hated, but never lost respect for. I thank you for your dedication to the Constitution, Country, and the ARMY. I served proudly in the, " be all that you can be" ARMY, and in a lot of ways never left. I stand ready to serve still, in any capacity, or any place my skills would be maximized. I'd salute, but know all to well you truly worked for a living. Thank you. boar out.

 

[hardballer]

I would have to concider the 1st shot to the chest the warning shot. anything after that the I told you so shot...

YUP!

Warning shots are NEVER a good idea. No matter what the situation is. Never mind the legal ramifications. It's the law of physics. What goes up must come down. That "warning shot" will come down at almost nearly the velocity it was shot. Who knows where it will land. It could hit the person who fired it in the first place. Way to go smart one, you shot yourself instead of the badguy. Warning shots also take to much time.

NEVER shoot to injure. You are not shooting to injure or kill. You are shooting to stop the threat. Once they are no longer a threat, you stop shooting. If they live, then good you didn't kill someone. If they die oh well, at least you're not dead. Also not everyone who owns or shoots a weapon is a expert marksman. Add adrenaline to the factor and you still think you can shoot them in the leg or arm? Shoot center of the biggest target area. It increases you chances of landing your shots and making sure you're coming out alive. This ain't the movies.

That's all I have to say about this.

Could not agree more.

You are kidding right, I mean this post was just a joke to see if you could get a response.

That's what I thought. Just shaking my head...

Warning shot, shoot to wound, where you been? You aren't the lone Ranger who can hit a fly at 90 yards shooting from the hip and the boogerman that caused you to draw the gun in the first place isn't going by some Hollywood script that says his weapon will fly out of his hand thanks to your marvelous shooting skill. If you have to draw and he doesn't surrender or turn around and leave in a hurry but continues to be a threat you shoot him. You shoot him till he drops and gives up, is obviously out of the fight or he expires. This is real life, you better get real or trade in your guns for a tin cup because he is going to take what you have and you will be on the street begging for lunch money....if he doesn't kill you first.

Yup! Again, could not agree more...

This is my immediate action drill. Very good to see it in writing.

Yup!

And... Just to be clear, There is no such thing as a warning shot. Unless, of course, you're in a re-run episode of Barnaby Jones or Gunsmoke.

 

[wisturkeyhunter]

I've fired a shot from my .45 in front of a sow black bear while camping in the wilderness I didn't really feel threatened just didn't want the sow any closer. Against another person I'd only shoot as a very last resort and for that warning shots ain't going to happen.

 

[Old Grump]

Dear Mr. Wild Boar

...Before you piss any more people off, have someone read the posts to you. It would seem you weren't in school during English. :shocker: boar out.

You are cute but you ain't my mommy. I'll do my own reading thank you very much, guess I missed yours because I just saw the OP and went right to answering. If I stepped on your cute little toes well I apologize a little for the sin was unintentional, I assure you. Clear enough or should I get somebody to read this to you.


Yeah yeah, I am a smart aleck, not my most endearing quality to be sure but I make up for it with my good looks.