Today I resigned from the VCDL. I am still a member of the NRA

[FBrinson]

Perhaps some need to be reminded that it is a violation of Forum Rules to bash another Gun Right organization.

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

There is a distinct difference between bashing a guns right group and showing dissatisfaction with a decision made by the leadership of a guns right group. PVC is NOT VCDL. Are we allowed to discuss his poor decision making as expressed in the video? I firmly believe there are a lot of people upset by this video and preempting their attempt to engage in dialogue by circling the wagons on THIS forum is not wise. But it is your playground and you make/enforce the rules.

 

[The Truth]

This is a spoof, nothing more, and this clown decided to highlight guns and gun owners as his first show. All you folks calling for the head of PVC need to chill out. Did PVC make a mistake by going through with this? Probably. Does this mean we should demonize VCDL and all that is PVC? Absolutely not. Quitting, taking your toys, and going home is exactly what the Antis want you to do. Voice your displeasure with what PVC participated did, but don't lessen the VCDL by quitting. And I'll remind all of you about this: PVC has been a tireless advocate for gun owners and the VCDL for a long time. If you want him to step down, which one of you who thinks he/she can do a better job will volunteer to fill those proverbial shoes?

This isn't just a, "Whoops, shouldn't have made that joke. Sorry guys." This is a full on 10 minute segment of video, every second of which is the most agonizing cringeworthy fodder I've seen in recent memory, playing right into the hands of the enemy with zero couth or forethought. The fallout from this will likely permanently disrupt VCDL, both monetarily and in regards to new members and the effectiveness of the organization in reaching across the aisle. The chatter I've witnessed just in the past couple days is extremely negative, with many cancelling memberships. My leftist friends are having a field day with this. Very embarrassing.

For the record, I'm not a member of VCDL. I've thought about joining, but my thoughts don't quite align with theirs it seems. I am, however, a member of GOA, and I'm not too happy about that at this time either.

 

[The Truth]

There is a distinct difference between bashing a guns right group and showing dissatisfaction with a decision made by the leadership of a guns right group. PVC is NOT VCDL. Are we allowed to discuss his poor decision making as expressed in the video? I firmly believe there are a lot of people upset by this video and preempting their attempt to engage in dialogue by circling the wagons on THIS forum is not wise. But it is your playground and you make/enforce the rules.

+1

 

[WalkingWolf]

This video would have meant nothing 50 years ago. It only matters now because hoplophobia has managed to infect even gun owners who are either too young to remember that guns were normal part of the culture, or they just forgot, or swallowed the kool aid.

If not coming unglued over a non issue is circling the wagons then ya can see that way. But I tend to ignore hysteria, maybe it is my cranky old age.

 

[The Truth]

This video would have meant nothing 50 years ago. It only matters now because hoplophobia has managed to infect even gun owners who are either too young to remember that guns were normal part of the culture, or they just forgot, or swallowed the kool aid.

If not coming unglued over a non issue is circling the wagons then ya can see that way. But I tend to ignore hysteria, maybe it is my cranky old age.

You should really watch the video, lol

 

[Grapeshot]

To those that would throw the baby out with the bathwater, here is the inside story in Philip's own words.
https://mail.aol.com/webmail-std/en-us/suite

Leaping to a conclusion seldom benefits anyone.

 

[WalkingWolf]

You should really watch the video, lol

Let me try to understand this^ you believe the video is sooooo offending YOU want me to watch it? BTW I have, and again it must be my age but I do not feel the need to wet my pants.

Gun Owners are their own worst enemies, instead of demanding criminals be held accountable they worry about this minute stuff. A police officer was murdered in MA with his own gun after being hit with a rock, and you are losing sleep over this video.

 

[The Truth]

To those that would throw the baby out with the bathwater, here is the inside story in Philip's own words.
https://mail.aol.com/webmail-std/en-us/suite

Leaping to a conclusion seldom benefits anyone.

Link is asking me to login to AOL

Let me try to understand this^ you believe the video is sooooo offending YOU want me to watch it? BTW I have, and again it must be my age but I do not feel the need to wet my pants.

Gun Owners are their own worst enemies, instead of demanding criminals be held accountable they worry about this minute stuff. A police officer was murdered in MA with his own gun after being hit with a rock, and you are losing sleep over this video.

This isn't about my personal feelings. This is about public perception. It's pretty arrogant not of you, but of the organization, to think that this is a non issue. When their revenue goes down over this, maybe then the full effect will be felt. Then, by proxy, the attack on our rights using ammo provided by the President of VCDL himself will no doubt cause some chinks in our armor. Now political candidates who align with VCDL will be associated with this asinine video debacle, and we WILL lose moderate votes because of it.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Link is asking me to login to AOL



This isn't about my personal feelings. This is about public perception. It's pretty arrogant not of you, but of the organization, to think that this is a non issue. When their revenue goes down over this, maybe then the full effect will be felt. Then, by proxy, the attack on our rights using ammo provided by the President of VCDL himself will no doubt cause some chinks in our armor. Now political candidates who align with VCDL will be associated with this asinine video debacle, and we WILL lose moderate votes because of it.

Public perception is what it always is, the left hates guns, the middle really do not care, and are too busy with their lives. They will see it as comedy, especially since this 'comedian' is known for spoofing people. The problem is the media that is backing these spoofs INTENTIONALLY seed discord among the demographic, you should be well aware of this being an open carry advocate. They have used open carry in hit bits to bring out attacks not by non gun owners, but by gun owners splintering our greatest strength, our numbers. It always amazes me how easy gun owners fall for it.

 

[Grapeshot]

Link is asking me to login to AOL



This isn't about my personal feelings. This is about public perception. It's pretty arrogant not of you, but of the organization, to think that this is a non issue. When their revenue goes down over this, maybe then the full effect will be felt. Then, by proxy, the attack on our rights using ammo provided by the President of VCDL himself will no doubt cause some chinks in our armor. Now political candidates who align with VCDL will be associated with this asinine video debacle, and we WILL lose moderate votes because of it.

Here is the full content:

QUICK HISTORY REVIEW

Back in late February, Philip put out two urgent alerts that he
requested be spread far and wide on a coming film that would be
attacking gun-rights leaders. (I am including the links below to the
February alerts, which have far greater detail, and should answer most
other questions.) At the time Philip noted that the attack was possibly
going to be something akin to things that Sasha Baron Cohen had done
with his "Borat" movie.

It turns out Philip was correct. It was an attack on gun-rights leaders
and it was done in a similar fashion to "Borat." Besides Philip, Sasha
Baron Cohen tricked, lied to, and set up a host of people, including
Larry Pratt, Trent Lott, Dana Rohrabacher, Joe Wilson, and Joe Walsh.
There were others targeted, but a few of those were lucky and dropped
out because of horribly botched travel arrangements made by Cohen's team
or disinterest in traveling for an interview.

It is a comedic series for Showtime subscribers that began Sunday. In
order to attack gun-rights leaders, the antis are using this manipulated
and staged farce as if it were a serious, factual, interview.


THE GUN SEGMENT STARTS WITH SLICING AND DICING PHILIP'S COMMENTS

In my discussions with Philip about this issue today, he told me:

"So far I have seen just the early part of the "First Look" at Cohen's
series. He had some very crafty and unethical editing done to take a
comment I made about one subject and seamlessly splicing it into a
different conversation, completely changing the context of what I was
talking about.

"For example, NOT seen in the video is a disguised Cohen discussing
educating children about gun safety in Israel. He claimed in Israel
they start gun safety very young. My response, which is shown, is
"we're trying to get that here for 7th and 8th graders, but can't do
it." Instead the video shows Cohen talking about arming kids against
terrorists, and then he splices in my response about firearms safety
training, so it looks like I'm saying we're trying to arm CHILDREN in
schools, instead of teachers and other adults.

"Another example. NOT seen on the video is Cohen asking about a bill
that VCDL defeated that would have made it illegal for 4 to 6 year-olds
to be able to shoot a gun, including an airgun, WITH or without parental
supervision and consent. The video shows my response that it was a bad
bill and that we killed it. (Not shown was an additional comment that
parent's should decide such things for their own children.) However my
comment is spliced into a different conversation that makes it sound
like I'm condoning 4 year olds having UNSUPERVISED access to guns and
VCDL killed a bill that would have made such a thing illegal!

"My hesitation when Cohen asks me if I'll help him make a safety
training video for children is where I was deciding to play along or not
in order to figure out who was behind this film, what they were actually
doing and how they were doing it, and then getting the word out to head
this off at the pass and keep it from being completed.

"BTW, in the "training session," ALL the props were silly plastic guns
which were glued to toys or stuffed animals, and the content was read
from a teleprompter."

Once Philip realized the game being played, and followed up with some
detective work in the subsequent days, he sent out the VA-ALERTs and
directly contacted other gun rights organizations across the country to
warn them. Sadly, others still became trapped in Cohen's web of lies
and deceit.

More to come as we learn more about the actual video.


FEBRUARY'S ALERTS

Here are links to the original VA-ALERTs:

URGENT! An attack on gun-rights leaders is underway - spread the word!
(2/20/2018)

http://www.listbox.com/member/archi...0134920:C09652EC-166E-11E8-825D-E00EA76D0B66/

or

https://tinyurl.com/y9byse3h

--

Audio version of the VA-ALERT on gun leaders being targeted (2/20/2018)

http://www.vcdl.org/resources/Audio/First_Freedom_Alert.mp4

--

Update on the fake interview used to discredit gun-rights
leaders/trainers (2/26/2018)

http://www.listbox.com/member/archi...6172433:CFDCAAA6-1B43-11E8-88BE-FFB0C4BC3AF4/

or

https://tinyurl.com/y8n2p7xz

 

[The Truth]

The fact still remains that he did an interview with Sacha Baron Cohen. How did he think this was going to turn out? I don't think the issue is that edits and splices were made. I would've thought that would be understood and assumed, that is, if anyone did any kind of homework on the gig. The issue is the sound bites he gave them, and knowing SBC's ambush style of cringe humor, the fact that he played along with it to the extent that he did. How would he prove what was actually said versus what was edited anyway? No doubt he signed a waiver. No doubt a pretty sweet monetary compensation/per diem/hospitality enticed PVC. The per diem and hospitality has actually been confirmed. The days of playing long ball are over, and it would benefit the elders in our community to realize this. Sometimes you've gotta get some groundball hits to drive in runs... but grounding into a double play ain't gonna do it either. Things don't work the same way this day and age. Public outrage can have serious adverse effects for the foreseeable future, and all it takes is something like this to do it.

I'm done crying about it, and welcome whatever flaming and discussion may come.

 

[HP995]

Now more than ever is a time to be smart. Especially (100 times more) for public figures and spokespersons. There are consequences to messing up, and it's so easy. It's a minefield. That's why not everyone is ready to be a public face.

There's a backstory to explain everything. It's certainly easy to believe there was deceptive editing; that's standard lefty M.O. But it's still a big fail. Any explanation or expose from the org will only reach a tiny fraction of the audience of the show, and the show is going to be pretty persuasive to young folks. Therefore damage done. Fail. Part of smart is figuring what to expect, what to be on guard for, how to protect your message, whether to accept and continue.

Now I support most pro-gun orgs and have a pretty big history here of promoting unity as a whole within 2A. Right? Think about it. I've taken a lot of heat here from the start until now by encouraging people to look past differences and work together for the bigger cause. See my posts.

But that's nothing like supporting pro gun orgs to do anything they want without criticism or comment, or supporting anyone to speak for those orgs even if they are a foot-biter. Orgs need to survive and they need to do some good for the cause. Criticism is tough love but it is love.

Now I don't belong to that particular org so I'm not tearing up any membership or necessarily encouraging others to do so. I sure would encourage people to write in and tell the org how you feel about that segment, encourage the org to get their act together for the current situation and modern media situations. And see what they do.

But you know me, I go by what's right, not who's who. So if criticizing a dumb action by an org is now considered against the rules here, I'd say the rules or the interpretation of the rules in this forum may be in danger of not being relevant to the current situation for 2A and OC. Forum moderation has to be smart too, this is a very national, crucially important forum. I like GS very much and usually agree but I'm not at all afraid to speak my mind. True friends are not always the people who agree and butter up. Truth itself is the best friend. I don't claim to be an oracle of Truth but I always tell it like I see it truthfully and with zero fear of doing so!

The gun world as a whole has got to unify but also smarten up if it wants to preserve these rights into the future. I can't force anyone to want that; I only can point out that if you want the one you need the other to get there. Said my piece, er, peace.

 

[T Dubya]

Oblivious, totally oblivious. You know what else is “make bang bang”? Politicians slamming their doors on gun rights advocates especially VCDL. In the end all the VCDL will have is their self righteousness to waft in like a steaming pile of dung, they may think it smells like roses but the rest of the world smells poop.



“I grew up in and now represent a community where people care a lot about their gun rights, but the idea of arming children is ridiculous,” said state Sen. Jill Vogel


What a buffoon,” said state Sen. Bryce Reeves (R-Spotsylvania), who received $5,000 from the group for his 2015 Senate bid. “Apparently common sense wasn’t issued with his concealed-carry permit. Come on, dude, really?”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d07f2b069f5a

 

[solus]

Soooo...

Seems everyone is on their tippy toes screaming the sky is falling over yet another bogus interview and if the interview was never conducted, the same newspeek media would have chastised PVC, et al., for not playing along like good sports one and all.

If, PVC was in fact self aware of the scheme, then he failed horrifically at turning the tables ~ shame on him.

That stated, if the producers cut and pasted sound bites around ~ shame on the producers, but isn’t that the same complaint everyone had in the first interview w/katie, the shame belongs on PVC to assure provisions, e.g., independent recording or filming, were in place so that didn’t occur again.

However, in the scheme of things, this to will pass and life will go on.

OP, sorry personal observation: i think you resigned from the wrong organization.

 

[scouser]

What exactly did I say for my comment to be the only one singled out to be deleted?

I asked a couple of serious questions

Firstly, what would be said about any of us if we had made that video?

Secondly, at what exact point in the video did the interviewee "play" the interviewer the way the interviewer played the interviewee?

I'm not the one tearing up membership cards, I'm not the one calling for someone's head, yet I'm the one singled out. Is it because my questions are too difficult to be answered?

 

[Neplusultra]

Turncoats.....

This is relevant to Open Carry in Virginia because our rights are under attack and we do not have a unified message. I enclosed my membership card in with the envelope that I sent my resignation letter. I was also quickly removed from the VCDL group facebook page for posting this.


My resignation letter:


To whom it may concern:

I resign my membership from the Virginia Citizens Defense League effective immediately. My membership # is 108600. Please take my name off of any roster associated with the VCDL. The organization has become by my estimation a lunatic fringe.

Blah, blah, blah...

If you are so fickle as to reject all the good that PVC and VCDL has done for gun rights then good riddance! I have been an OC.org member since 2007. But I never joined VCDL. UNTIL NOW! You seem to think great men are perfect, they are NOT. They are nontheless great men. And obviously greater than you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching and training kids to handle a gun at an early age, with supervision of course. But that was not what Cohen was implying. Forgive PVC for being a bit "trusting" and naive, but do not demean his work or character!

 

[Neplusultra]

Blah, blah, blah...

If you are so fickle as to reject all the good that PVC and VCDL has done for gun rights then good riddance! I have been an OC.org member since 2007. But I never joined VCDL. UNTIL NOW!

Description Unit price Qty Amount
VCDL membership
Item# 25MR DisclosureName: N/A
DisclosureEmployerOccupation: N/A
DisclosureAddress: N/A
DisclosureEmploymentCityState: N/A $25.00 USD 1 $25.00 USD
Subtotal $25.00 USD
Total $25.00 USD
Payment $25.00 USD
Payment sent to paypal@vcdl.org

 

[Neplusultra]

Oblivious, totally oblivious. You know what else is “make bang bang”? Politicians slamming their doors on gun rights advocates especially VCDL. In the end all the VCDL will have is their self righteousness to waft in like a steaming pile of dung, they may think it smells like roses but the rest of the world smells poop.



“I grew up in and now represent a community where people care a lot about their gun rights, but the idea of arming children is ridiculous,” said state Sen. Jill Vogel


What a buffoon,” said state Sen. Bryce Reeves (R-Spotsylvania), who received $5,000 from the group for his 2015 Senate bid. “Apparently common sense wasn’t issued with his concealed-carry permit. Come on, dude, really?”

Do you really think PVC was advocating arming three year olds IN SCHOOL? Or was that selective editing?

 

[OC for ME]

Back in late February, Philip put out two urgent alerts that he requested be spread far and wide on a coming film that would be attacking gun-rights leaders. At the time Philip noted that the attack was possibly going to be something akin to things that Sasha Baron Cohen had done with his "Borat" movie.

Well there ya go. PVC should not have participated in the first place...then this thread would not exist.

SBC + Showtime = What could go wrong?

Wudda, shudda, cudda...

 

[scooter348]

All you nervous nellies screaming for PVC's head on a platter, and quitting VCDL, and using politicians quotes are playing right into the anti-gunners hands. This is what they do, this is what they want, and you guys are just emboldening them to do more of this. Using quotes from politicians that are in a WaPo article is disingenuous; they are politicians, what did you expect them to say? I swear, gun owners are like fire chiefs and farmers- you can't get any two of them to agree on any one thing at any given time. VCDL is an organization that strives to bring gun owners together and fight for their rights. If VCDL becomes a shadow of it's former self, the blame should, and will, be on those who abandoned it when times got tough, not on some clown actor who has since moved on to other targets. On second thought, if a heavily edited video designed to make gun owners look like fools so offends you, maybe VCDL isn't for you and you should just move on.