Summer 2009 Milwaukee Open Carry Picnic: May 25th, 2009 (Memorial Day), Time: 3PM-7PM

[Mr. Greg]

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Glock34 wrote:

This is a good idea, private property THANK YOU for volunteering your property !

This will be alot of fun, might want to think about a portapotty ? I am sure we would all help out with the cost, as one portapotty, for 1 day won't cost that much, just an idea. otherwise, I can't wait !! Where about is your parents land ?

Well, it's not my land, I'm not that successful of a 21 year old college student. My elders are onboard with the idea of the picnic, though.

And yes, the first thing they mentioned was the idea of a portapotty, and I opined that everyone attending will be more than happy to pitch in.

Our house is in Greenfield, near 27th and Layton.

[Edit] Finally a new page...was getting sick of the formatting on the last...heh.

 

[Deadscott]

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I will attend.

Mr. Greg it would probably be a good idea to talk to your neighbors and see how the feel about our picnic.

I really like the idea of Kaszube's Park. It is so isolated from anything else. Also it is in the city of Milwaukee. This weekend I will go look at it in person.

I would also like to meet some of you before the picnic. We may be putting our necks in a noose here and I would like to meet some of you guys before we do.

 

[pvtschultz]

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While I am a bit saddened that we are moving the location, I completely understand giving the circumstances. I am all for being arrested when I am reasonable sure that I'll be victorious in court, but with this county ordinance hanging out there without any legal guidance, I too would prefer to err on the side of caution. I almost went to law school for patent law (I'm an engineer) but I got married instead. Probably a good choice.

Thanks for all the effort nonetheless!



New Berlin has a similar ordinance against firearms in parks...

184-11: No person shall carry or discharge any firearm in any park or parkway. No person except an authorized representative of the Commission shall fire any fireworks in any park or parkway. No person shall engage in trapping nor shall any person hunt with any bow and arrow within any park or parkway. "Firearm" includes an air gun.

 

[Mike]

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Deadscott wrote:

Mr. Greg it would probably be a good idea to talk to your neighbors and see how the feel about our picnic.

probably not a good idea to ask permission - maybe just invite 'em!

 

[smithman]

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pvtschultz wrote:

New Berlin has a similar ordinance against firearms in parks...

184-11: No person shall carry or discharge any firearm in any park or parkway. No person except an authorized representative of the Commission shall fire any fireworks in any park or parkway. No person shall engage in trapping nor shall any person hunt with any bow and arrow within any park or parkway. "Firearm" includes an air gun.

They redefined firearm here to include airguns. So at least you can take an airgun into the park since the definition of firearm itself is preempted by state law.

 

[Parabellum]

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Spongebob wrote:

22....






and a half!

You're older than I am.

Edit: Spelling

 

[pvtschultz]

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Mr. Greg wrote:

pvtschultz wrote:

Hopefully we'll get an answer from the County's Corporation Cousel in a expiditious manner on this one. I can see how it can be argued either way by us simple minded folks. And sorry guys, my yard isn't big enough for all of us.

It could take weeks, unfortunately, and this is not something I'm prepared to fight in court. Whereas we would of had complete legal carry in the park before, our legality now rests on an interpretation of the word "Similar." Go figure.

I'm going to cancel the park reservation, as I'll lose half the money in a few days since it'll be under 30 days 'till memorial day. I do have an alternate, knowingly legal, location in mind...stay tuned for details.

Did you cancel that reservation yet? We may want to hold off on canceling if there is no further penalty for canceling than the 50% that we'd already forfit. We might as well push the issue further with the lady at the park and rec department and at the county board level before we throw in the towl. I'm willing to donate my portion of the forfiture in the event that we are going to be violating some serious ordinance.

 

[GJD]

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I'm 22.

 

[XDm-40_guy]

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I'm 24...though i was one of the youngest on here but i guess not. Hope to make this event whichever location it is.

 

[semperfiws6]

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Im disappointed about the change in location, but im still in for now.



I think we should still push for a public park. And as a member mentioned in an earlier post, meeting up beforehand might be a good idea.

 

[BJA]

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I'm 19 so don't worry you will definately not be the youngest.



The problem with the parks though is that we WILL be arrested. Until that county ordinance is nullified we are Sh*t out of luck when it comes to parks.



Ben

 

[pvtschultz]

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BJA wrote:

I'm 19 so don't worry you will definately not be the youngest.



The problem with the parks though is that we WILL be arrested. Until that county ordinance is nullified we are Sh*t out of luck when it comes to parks.



Ben

I don't know if we have to go that far. The state's preemption law does not say that the local laws need to be struck, just that they are unenforceable. I am going to try and determine what the penalty for violation of the ordinace is to see how far I am willing to push the issue.

 

[Mr. Greg]

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pvtschultz wrote:

Did you cancel that reservation yet? We may want to hold off on canceling if there is no further penalty for canceling than the 50% that we'd already forfit. We might as well push the issue further with the lady at the park and rec department and at the county board level before we throw in the towl. I'm willing to donate my portion of the forfiture in the event that we are going to be violating some serious ordinance.

I did, but there's no reason why we can't make another one prior to the picnic should we discover that carry in the park is definitely legal.

 

[Mr. Greg]

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pvtschultz wrote:

I don't know if we have to go that far. The state's preemption law does not say that the local laws need to be struck, just that they are unenforceable. I am going to try and determine what the penalty for violation of the ordinace is to see how far I am willing to push the issue.

Unenforcible if they're not "similar" to a state law, which the county law against guns in county may be interpreted as.

As for a penalty, its surprisingly light. For reference, 47.05 is the ordinance dealing with possession of firearms, therefore section 1 of 47.29 applies.

47.29. Penalties. (1)Any person violating any of the provisions of chapter 47 of the Code, excepting sections 47.06(6), 47.10(9), 47.14(5), 47.141 and 47.16(1), shall for each offense forfeit a penalty of not less than ten dollars ($10.00) nor more than two hundred dollars ($200.00), together with the taxable costs in said action, in the discretion of the court, and in default of payment thereof, shall be imprisoned in the county jail or in the house of corrections of the county for a period not to exceed ninety (90) days, in the discretion of the court. (2)Any person who violates the provisions of section 47.141 of the Code shall for each offense forfeit a penalty of not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100.00), together with the costs of prosecution, and in default of payment thereof, shall be imprisoned in the county jail or house of correction of the county for a period not to exceed thirty (30) days. (3)Any person who violates the provisions of section 47.10(9) of the Code shall, if he/she stipulates guilt, be fined as provided in section 47.10(14), but otherwise as provided in subsection (1) of this section. (4)Any person violating any of the provisions of section 47.07 (2)(b), shall for each offense forfeit a penalty of not less than ten dollars ($10.00). Upon conviction of a second offense and any additional violations shall forfeit twenty-five dollars ($25.00) and perform four (4) hours of community service, as directed by the court, which will not interfere with the current bargaining unit agreement and will be assigned by the parks department, or shall be subject to a tax intercept order in favor of Milwaukee County for the payment of the fine, in the discretion of the court.

 

[pvtschultz]

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I like the $10 more than the $200...

I have an email in with the Sheriff's Department and again to Supervisor Sanfilippo for more help/clarification. New Berlin has a similar provision for their parks. I know a New Berlin PD Luitenent and I am going to ask him about the fines and enforcement of their ordinance. The park that I have in mind is right behind the PD. :dude:

 

[Rdesjardin]

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This sounds like an excellent idea...



I am looking forward to it...

 

[GJD]

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Mr. Greg wrote:

GJD wrote:

Guys at Glocktalk are talking about our picnic.

Link?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1043159

 

[pvtschultz]

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I was wrong. I got a message back from the Milwaukee Co. Sheriff's Department and the maximum penalty for breaking 47.05 is $500. I never heard back again from Mr. Sanfilippo after my last email so I'll have to call him on Monday.

I was contacted by, and have been in contact with,an employee of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal WRT our picnic so it appears that at least one person is interested there. Maybe we can force a clarification about whether 47.05 is preempted by state statute if we get the press involved more.

Did we ever hear back from the Parks and Rec Department WRT 47.05?

It was funny to read how ignorant MADCITYCOP over at GlocTalkwas about color of law civil rights violations and the mere harrassmentby his department of people OC'ing being a qualifying violation.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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pvtschultz wrote:

I was wrong. I got a message back from the Milwaukee Co. Sheriff's Department and the maximum penalty for breaking 47.05 is $500. I never heard back again from Mr. Sanfilippo after my last email so I'll have to call him on Monday.

I was contacted by, and have been in contact with,an employee of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal WRT our picnic so it appears that at least one person is interested there. Maybe we can force a clarification about whether 47.05 is preempted by state statute if we get the press involved more.

Did we ever hear back from the Parks and Rec Department WRT 47.05?

It was funny to read how ignorant MADCITYCOP over at GlocTalkwas about color of law civil rights violations and the mere harrassmentby his department of people OC'ing being a qualifying violation.

Yup, he claims to be SOOO pro 2A, yet he will write ya a ticket in the blink of an eye for OC..He sounds likeyour typical JBTblind follower of the Nazi like Doyle regime..go figure...

 

[GLOCK21GB]

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Just keeping this thread on top butlooks like we are losing interest.