Permit Required?

[Brass Magnet]

What is so hard about understanding that politicians are a pack of liars?

We elect them based on their promises of smaller government and then they create a bigger bureaucracy and make more laws. I never said I liked it.

Nothing, and I agree. What I wish for is that you would take the time to research and understand that of which you speak before giving everyone "the truth according to Sparticus" That's it.

The facts are that the republic was formed and the constitution put in place to create a functioning government and to protect the people from that government. It was obvious even to the founders that the government wouldn't be perfect and they gave us tools to remedy that. These tools are purposely hard to use which is why polititcians and the courts seek to circumvent them. Ever wonder why they passed an amendment to outlaw alcohol and somehow got away with just outlawing other drugs outright? Now, most of us today agree that prohibition was stupid but AT LEAST it was passed in the manner designated by the constitution. Do you know how closely linked gun control and the illegalization of marajuana are?

The rights are OURS but the government has taken many of them away from us, and they'll keep doing it so long as we let them. So long as people say "a permit is a right".

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

Repeal of 941.23 is possible. In some parts of the state that isn't being enforced NOW. (jackson county)

There are many departments and agencies in the State of Wisconsin that will not enforce 941.23, unless you committed another crime. It is just the Jackson County DA that put that position out in a press release.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

What is so hard about understanding that politicians are a pack of liars?

What is to hard about it, is that if people were to open their eyes and recognize just how corrupt the politcal system is, thier illusion, or as Doug would say, preconcieved world view, would be shattered? To reconcile perception with reality is a difficult thing to do. It takes courage. That, in a nutshell, is what is soo hard about it.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

Do you know how closely linked gun control and the illegalization of marajuana are?

Yes, I do.

 

[Brass Magnet]

Yes, I do.

Well, I figured you would............

 

[Brass Magnet]

Quiz

What would happen if Article one Section 8 of the U S Constitution which states that the “congress shall have the power to regulate commerce among the several states."

Was today amended and changed to: "congress shall have the power to promote trade and exchange among the several states but not restrict it." Which is much closer to it's original intent.

I know a lot of you know the answer to this one.

Sparticus, now this is an amendment you should work to pass. This would keep us from having to fight as hard as we are now and get us pretty much what most of us would like.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

For over 10 years multiple attemps have been made to get ccw and failed, Our legislators had their chance, Now it's our turn, I agree with bnh and Captain Nemo it's time to stop going for the hind quarter and go straight for the jugular.

Well put, my friend!

 

[MKEgal]

Will there be problems in WI's permitting system, sure but we will have to deal with it as it comes up and work to remove onerous restrictions.

It will be ever so much easier (and cheaper) to repeal that one statute (for a beginning) than to set up a whole new beurocracy, then chip away at it until the worst restrictions on our liberties are gone.

Start out with the repeal of the /CC statute, then we'll work on the vehicle carry rule, and by then the GFSZ case will be through the courts & no longer a problem.

 

[Spartacus]

It will be ever so much easier (and cheaper) to repeal that one statute (for a beginning) than to set up a whole new beurocracy, then chip away at it until the worst restrictions on our liberties are gone.

Start out with the repeal of the /CC statute, then we'll work on the vehicle carry rule, and by then the GFSZ case will be through the courts & no longer a problem.

True enough but if you think the Land of 10,000 laws will do it the easy way I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I almost wish WCI had another year or two to prep the political scene for this. Its all coming up so fast I know the politicians are going to mess it up somehow.

 

[BJA]

Then go ahead and conceal carry into a courthouse right now and see where it gets you.

I have open carry which allows me to legally carry, a permit is not needed to carry in a court house; it is outright banned. My post was in the context of requiring permits to carry and the infringement that comes with it, not necessarily outright bans..... just future legislation that may deal with these bans and how the legislation may infringe on our rights as well.

 

[Rich B]

When did CT become Shall Issue?


CT is a may issue state that treats it like a shall issue, but the board of firearms permits examiners proves it is not shall issue (unless they changes something in the last 2 years)

It is a shall issue state. It shall be issued unless you are deemed to not be eligible.

 

[Rich B]

When I got my permit 20 years ago or so I had to write a statement expressing my need for a concealed carry permit to my local sheriff. I would consider that may issue unless it has changed.

There is nothing that needs to be changed. There is nothing in state law that allows them to use your statement as grounds to reject or approve your application.

CT is shall issue.

 

[Spartacus]

There is nothing that needs to be changed. There is nothing in state law that allows them to use your statement as grounds to reject or approve your application.

CT is shall issue.

Cool. Then what is the biggest "mess" as you have stated concerning permitting?

 

[Rich B]

Cool. Then what is the biggest "mess" as you have stated concerning permitting?

I think you just gave a pretty good example of it, but you can read all about it at anytime.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?90-Connecticut

 

[Flipper]

The suggested change to 941.23 is an elegant solution. (elegant [ˈɛlɪgənt] 3. cleverly simple; ingenious an elegant solution to a problem...http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elegant)

Now if we can only come to an answer for "but felons, domestic abusers and those prone to suicide will be able to have guns."

 

[J.Gleason]

No permit carry is in the GOP plank. After the election, given we get a GOP majority in the Senate, Assembly, and Governor, we need to write all the GOP candidates and remind them of this.

A simple REPEAL of 941.23 is all that is required. Such a bill would have no fiscal impact, would avoid several committee hearings because of this, could be signed by the Governor in May of 2011, and we could have concealed carry the next day.

Any training/permit bill won't go to the Governor until August and won't be ready to start the permits until sometime in 2012. Will require an entire bureaucracy to be set up, and will increase taxes/fees.

Certain "gun rights" groups want to re-introduce the 2003 and/or 2005 bills. I would tell you the climate has changed, OC is now prevalent everywhere and the 2nd is incorporated to the states. Those that want to re-introduce the 2003/2005 bills (admit they [the bills] were/are the most stringent shall issue in the country) want to go BACKWARDS.

These are the same groups/people who think we need permits to "appease" the anti's.

A better question is, do we what a one paragraph easy to read/understand bill, that everybody will easily know what it says or do we want a "health-care" 100 page have to pass it before we know what's in it bill?

Keep in mind that Barrett has said, "I don't see the need" so he will VETO any/all CC bill, and Walker has confirmed via email to WCI he would sign a REPEAL on 941.23.

From my point of view, REPEAL is the correct course of action, and CAN be accomplished. The only thing standing in the way is those who are telling us, "it can't be done."

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 If there is such a number.
There is no other way to go IMHO

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

I almost wish WCI had another year or two to prep the political scene for this. Its all coming up so fast I know the politicians are going to mess it up somehow.

Its funny I've thought the same thing. Like maybe a little "more" time and we would have more time to get people who want to carry out there carrying now.

I believe it really does all start with getting people exercising their right to carry.

When you don't have something, when you are hungry, you'll eat anything.

When you aren't starving, you want something GOOD to eat.

TOO many Wisconsinites are STARVED for the right to carry. As such, they are too likely to grasp at any opportunity to carry the state affords them and call it success.

Too many people would say "permit fee?, ok fine, government mandated training?, ok fine, anything so I can carry"

Too many would be happy to accept expensive mandatory training, fingerprinting, expensive permit fee's (taxes) that have to be renewed every few years because its SOMETHING more than they have now and now they are starved for the right to carry.

When we get people out OC'ing, they are exercising a right, not starving for one. As such, though they still REALLY want CC, they aren't as desperate for it as they were when they thought they couldn't carry at all. They've had a taste of true freedom and they will want more of the same. Then the scenario is "I've been carrying for years, NOW you want me to pay a tax and go through government mandated training to do something I've already been doing?

I think back 5 years ago when I got my Florida non-resident CC permit. I was HAPPY to go through the hassle of going and getting fingerprinted. I was happy to pay the fee to Florida for my CC permit. NOW this year I get my renewal notice and I have a bitter taste in my mouth having to go get fingerprinted AGAIN and pay $50 to Florida just to renew my permit.

I think with the recent explosion of awareness, thousands more people who sat in the "starving for the right to carry" category are beginning to OC. I do still think repeal of 941.23 is entirely possible especially with the turnover in Madison with the anti-incumbent sentiment. The national wave of "less government all around" will play to our favor here in Wisconsin as well. So I am entirely convinced repeal of 941.23 is possible, but it has crossed my mind that another summer getting people out and OC'ing before this comes up in the legislature would really fortify our position.

 

[J.Gleason]

Huh? So..... The work you do here is bloviate about all you do for us peons and are the designated receptor for PM's that tell you you are awesome?

Did I understand 'the work you do here'?

Table time Paul, don't forget the table time.

 

[Spartacus]

Table time Paul, don't forget the table time.

COMMENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack

I think with the recent explosion of awareness, thousands more people who sat in the "starving for the right to carry" category are beginning to OC. I do still think repeal of 941.23 is entirely possible especially with the turnover in Madison with the anti-incumbent sentiment. The national wave of "less government all around" will play to our favor here in Wisconsin as well. So I am entirely convinced repeal of 941.23 is possible, but it has crossed my mind that another summer getting people out and OC'ing before this comes up in the legislature would really fortify our position.

Your posts make more sense than anybody here.

God I hope the republicans don't choke up in the ninth inning and pander to the dems in bi-partisan maneuvering to get more stuff they want.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

The weasel said what?

Personal attack. Good job!!!!

Your posts make more sense than anybody here.

You are including yourself, right?