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Permit Required?

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,181
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
Government involvement is an infringement and grows government and its expenses.

"Permit" is from the same root as 'permission' and permits prerequisites even in shall issue states. Been there, done that.

Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth.
 

bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Been discussed ad nauseam

No permit carry is in the GOP plank. After the election, given we get a GOP majority in the Senate, Assembly, and Governor, we need to write all the GOP candidates and remind them of this.

A simple REPEAL of 941.23 is all that is required. Such a bill would have no fiscal impact, would avoid several committee hearings because of this, could be signed by the Governor in May of 2011, and we could have concealed carry the next day.

Any training/permit bill won't go to the Governor until August and won't be ready to start the permits until sometime in 2012. Will require an entire bureaucracy to be set up, and will increase taxes/fees.

Certain "gun rights" groups want to re-introduce the 2003 and/or 2005 bills. I would tell you the climate has changed, OC is now prevalent everywhere and the 2nd is incorporated to the states. Those that want to re-introduce the 2003/2005 bills (admit they [the bills] were/are the most stringent shall issue in the country) want to go BACKWARDS.

These are the same groups/people who think we need permits to "appease" the anti's.

A better question is, do we what a one paragraph easy to read/understand bill, that everybody will easily know what it says or do we want a "health-care" 100 page have to pass it before we know what's in it bill?

Keep in mind that Barrett has said, "I don't see the need" so he will VETO any/all CC bill, and Walker has confirmed via email to WCI he would sign a REPEAL on 941.23.

From my point of view, REPEAL is the correct course of action, and CAN be accomplished. The only thing standing in the way is those who are telling us, "it can't be done."
 

Spartacus

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
1,185
Location
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
The only thing standing in the way is those who are telling us, "it can't be done."

Hmmmm... I would say "it won't be done", not "it can't be done", but go ahead and be as optimistic as you like. Politicians promise anything and everything to get elected but after the elections its another story.

The term "Constitutional Carry" is an invention of "patriots", Libertarians and far right wingers to make you feel as though the government is short changing you and depriving you of some right. Find me the term "Constitutional Carry" in ANY of the Founding Fathers writings including the Constitution itself and I will eat my hat. It has been left to the states to determine the details of how the second amendment is carried out in that particular state.

As BnH has stated to get Moderately Restricted Carry all that has to happen is a repeal of 941.23 but don't hold your breath.
 
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bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
As BnH has stated to get Moderately Unrestricted Carry all that has to happen is a repeal of 941.23 but don't hold your breath.

Don't worry, I wont (hold my breath)! I'll continue to work to advance carry rights for all citizens, especially those who refuse to acknowledge/support OC and demand privilege over right.

(Nope, ain't talking about any individual, rather the organizations)
 

johnny amish

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,025
Location
High altitude of Vernon County, ,
Don't worry, I wont (hold my breath)! I'll continue to work to advance carry rights for all citizens, especially those who refuse to acknowledge/support OC and demand privilege over right.

(Nope, ain't talking about any individual, rather the organizations)

It seems to me that if we would all unite after the elections and contact our lawmakers that we could have a chance at repealing the ccw ban. It will take an army of emails and phone calls to get our message through to them but I believe we are capable of doing just that. Our numbers are large enough, and growing larger every day. If we shout loud enough our voices will be hard to ignore.
 

bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
It seems to me that if we would all unite after the elections and contact our lawmakers that we could have a chance at repealing the ccw ban. It will take an army of emails and phone calls to get our message through to them but I believe we are capable of doing just that. Our numbers are large enough, and growing larger every day. If we shout loud enough our voices will be hard to ignore.

We agree here 100%, the question is:

How do we get the "other" state groups on board with REPEAL?
 

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
In CT, we have a permit required to purchase and carry a handgun. It is 'shall issue' and is required to carry OC or CC.

It is a mess. Do not concede to a permit system. Dig your feet in and fight for what is right.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
I have been formulating a letter that I would send to my elected officials November 3rd. In it, I would outline the argument for smaller government, the platform as well as court cases, DA decisions and other data that would lead to the conclusion that the repeal of certain statutes would be in the best interest of all involved.
When I finish it, I'll post it here for feedback. If we all inundate the people elected, we may have a chance to make a major step (maybe a leap?) toward Constitutional Carry.

Here I am agreeing with Spartacus twice this week so be ready for an apocalypse. True Constitutional Carry, at least the way I've used it, is a misnomer. True Constitutional Carry would involve NO restrictions as to weapon, place or person 'allowed' to carry. The SCOTUS has already ruled that true CC is not achievable.
 

johnny amish

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,025
Location
High altitude of Vernon County, ,
We agree here 100%, the question is:

How do we get the "other" state groups on board with REPEAL?

I would like them to show statisticle evidence that Vermont, Alaska and Arizona are having problems with a no permit system. Those states have had this in place long enough to show data for or against permits. Opinions and emotions are one thing but it is very difficult to argue stats. Everybody is to use to the permit system, this feels normal to them, they should be offended at having to ask permission to excersise a right. To many states think they have the right to carry when it is only three that actually have the right, everybody else has permission, for now.
Right now we have the right oc without a permit, and no problems. Why should we change our thinking if we put on a jacket?
 

Flipper

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,140
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
It seems to me that if we would all unite after the elections and contact our lawmakers that we could have a chance at repealing the ccw ban. It will take an army of emails and phone calls to get our message through to them but I believe we are capable of doing just that. Our numbers are large enough, and growing larger every day. If we shout loud enough our voices will be hard to ignore.

That is if the cat herd that are gun rights groups can get together and agree on a strategy. And yes, that will include compromise, or if you prefer, being pragmatic.

There will be media bias to overcome as well as the misinformation campaign orchestered by the Joyce Foundation using WAVE, Leaque of Women Voters, Wisconsin Police Chiefs Association, Mayors Against Guns and anyone else the Joyce Foundation can buy off with a "grant."

http://www.joycefdn.org/content.cfm/grant-list?OrderBy=GrantYear&OrderAsc=0&rr=1

You can bet the all the anti's will marching to the same tune.
 

Deek

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
128
Location
Little Chute, Wisconsin, USA
Would getting 941.23 repealed help much with the hassle of the vehicle transportation requirements?. If I understand things right, we would still have to "unload and encase" because of the " in or on a vehicle" language of 167.31. So, we have to do the "dance" getting in and out of the car.

I would like to have the option to OC or CC depending on the season/weather. I dont want to risk heat stroke in the summer just to conceal.....
 

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
Hmmmm... I would say "it won't be done", not "it can't be done", but go ahead and be as optimistic as you like. Politicians promise anything and everything to get elected but after the elections its another story.

The term "Constitutional Carry" is an invention of "patriots", Libertarians and far right wingers to make you feel as though the government is short changing you and depriving you of some right. Find me the term "Constitutional Carry" in ANY of the Founding Fathers writings including the Constitution itself and I will eat my hat. It has been left to the states to determine the details of how the second amendment is carried out in that particular state.

As BnH has stated to get Moderately Unrestricted Carry all that has to happen is a repeal of 941.23 but don't hold your breath.


Why are you so unwilling to fight for what is right and so unwilling to fight for regaining our constitutionally guaranteed rights?
Maybe you should just go back to hanging out with your buddies at the Joyce foundation and quit trying to sabotage the progress of the WI residents who want the ban on concealed-carry repealed.
 

Spartacus

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
1,185
Location
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
In CT, we have a permit required to purchase and carry a handgun. It is 'shall issue' and is required to carry OC or CC.

It is a mess. Do not concede to a permit system. Dig your feet in and fight for what is right.

Dude, I carried in CT for years and had absolutely zero problems in getting and keeping my permit. You will have to define "mess" for me...
 

Spartacus

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
1,185
Location
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
Why are you so unwilling to fight for what is right and so unwilling to fight for regaining our constitutionally guaranteed rights?
Maybe you should just go back to hanging out with your buddies at the Joyce foundation and quit trying to sabotage the progress of the WI residents who want the ban on concealed-carry repealed.

I don't know you but I'm pretty sure I've done as much or more than you have for this cause, but we don't have to "regain" anything. Its already ours according to Article 1 Sec 25. All we have to do is get the restrictive statutes modified or repealed.
 

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
I don't know you but I'm pretty sure I've done as much or more than you have for this cause, but we don't have to "regain" anything. Its already ours according to Article 1 Sec 25. All we have to do is get the restrictive statutes modified or repealed.

So this is a pi$$ing match now?
you continue to advocate for permits being required to exercise a right, I need to ask, What is your cause?
 
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