OC in Nevada

[turborich]

While I understand your concern, you might want to be careful with that action. In some states that is brandishing = threatening serious bodily harm or death.

You know, I once was in a Carl's Jr. and there were 3 thug types ahead of me. They were ordering their food, but also giving the clerk a hell of a time. I just waited my turn in line until one of them noticed my firearm and asked me "what are you going to do with that" while bringing it to the attention of the other two thugs. They were up to no good, were already harassing the cashier and yelling "***** this and ***** that" I simply looked at him while I placed my hand on my firearm (still holstered) and this was enough to end his curiosity. There are just no having a civil conversation with some people. You can usually make a call on what needs to be done in a certain situation. Now, if it would have been one guy or a group of guys who were behaving correctly then I would have had a conversation instead.

As far as Jeannette's situation, I think she acted exactly as she should have. She never drew her firearm and didn't do anything illegal. What if she wouldn't have been armed and this creep would have took her by force? She could have been another statistic dead in a ditch. I would expect my wife to act in the same exact fashion.

Walk up to a cop and start talking smack and see where his/her hand goes with a quickness. I don't blame them one bit.

 

[turborich]

This is why Nevada law requires that there be a presence of two or more people in order for you to be guilty of unlawful threatening with a firearm. It can't happen on a simple "he said; she said."

I wouldn't blame anyone for not calling the cops in that situation. All it's going to do, in reality, is take another 3 hours out of your day, and you will probably be disrespected (disarmed) while talking to them. Oh, yeah, and NOTHING will happen that can help unless you have clear video evidence that the other person committed a crime they care about and your evidence includes the information they need to find them EASILY.

I can tell you from experience that what you said here is unfortunately very true. I respect our police, but sometimes they just aren't very helpful and make a bad situation even worse.

When my friends place was broken into it took Metro 2.5 hours to respond and we told the call taker that there were firearms in the house and we didn't know if the intruders were still inside or not. 2.5 hours to show up and then they wouldn't take a report on the scene, but rather had another officer call a couple hours later to take a phone report. They claimed that they were understaffed...

Metro seems to have very little follow through these days unless there is a dead body involved.

 

[Grapeshot]

You know, I once was in a Carl's Jr. and there were 3 thug types ahead of me. They were ordering their food, but also giving the clerk a hell of a time. I just waited my turn in line until one of them noticed my firearm and asked me "what are you going to do with that" while bringing it to the attention of the other two thugs. They were up to no good, were already harassing the cashier and yelling "***** this and ***** that" I simply looked at him while I placed my hand on my firearm (still holstered) and this was enough to end his curiosity. There are just no having a civil conversation with some people. You can usually make a call on what needs to be done in a certain situation. Now, if it would have been one guy or a group of guys who were behaving correctly then I would have had a conversation instead.

--snipped--.

Where is the imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm?

Don't like the way someone is talking to a third party? Communicate potential use of deadly force - really?

 

[OC for ME]

Where is the imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm?

Don't like the way someone is talking to a third party? Communicate potential use of deadly force - really?

The state/city/town displayed next to Location may be useful data when formulating a opinion/response.

Being legal is not always the same as being wise. Advocating a unlawful act is verboten here on OCDO.

 

[OC for ME]

You know, I once was in a Carl's Jr. and there were 3 thug types ahead of me. They were ordering their food, but also giving the clerk a hell of a time. I just waited my turn in line until one of them noticed my firearm and asked me "what are you going to do with that" while bringing it to the attention of the other two thugs. They were up to no good, were already harassing the cashier and yelling "***** this and ***** that" I simply looked at him while I placed my hand on my firearm (still holstered) and this was enough to end his curiosity. There are just no having a civil conversation with some people. You can usually make a call on what needs to be done in a certain situation. Now, if it would have been one guy or a group of guys who were behaving correctly then I would have had a conversation instead. ...

Does not appear to be interfering in a third party discussion to me but "responding" to a direct question from a fellow citizen. YMMV.

 

[turborich]

Where is the imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm?

Don't like the way someone is talking to a third party? Communicate potential use of deadly force - really?

No deadly force whatsoever, read the entire post. He made a direct comment to me and like I said they all three were looking for trouble. You have to know how to present yourself in order to avoid a possible bad situation. Some people's behavior is worse than that of a wild animal and you must be ready for such. I'm not sure about you, but I can judge what's about to happen pretty well and I'm not about to be a victim.

 

[28kfps]

Where is the imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm?

Don't like the way someone is talking to a third party? Communicate potential use of deadly force - really?

Why would this issue require a need to meet death or serious bodily harm threat? The NRS says brandishing is one that draws or exhibits any of such deadly weapons in a rude, angry or threatening manner. I contend putting your hand on a safely and secured holstered gun and not saying anything threatening does not need to meet any threat requirement nor is it brandishing. I believe they would be hard pressed to say putting ones hand on a legal firearm not drawing it, not grabbing the butt (an assumption as he said placed his hand on it) still in the holster is exhibiting. Hard to exhibit a gun in a threatening manner that is legally, safely and secured in a holster. He could have said at that point in time of the conversation with the idiots he placed his hand on the firearm to verify it was seated and secured in the holster. Would he still require the threat of serious harm?

 

[Grapeshot]

Why would this issue require a need to meet death or serious bodily harm threat? The NRS says brandishing is one that draws or exhibits any of such deadly weapons in a rude, angry or threatening manner. I contend putting your hand on a safely and secured holstered gun and not saying anything threatening does not need to meet any threat requirement nor is it brandishing. I believe they would be hard pressed to say putting ones hand on a legal firearm not drawing it, not grabbing the butt (an assumption as he said placed his hand on it) still in the holster is exhibiting. Hard to exhibit a gun in a threatening manner that is legally, safely and secured in a holster. He could have said at that point in time of the conversation with the idiots he placed his hand on the firearm to verify it was seated and secured in the holster. Would he still require the threat of serious harm?

"In most states, it is a felony to exhibit a weapon in an angry or threatening manner. In the rest it is a misdemeanor with very unpleasant consequences. The term may not be specifically defined. It has usually been construed in cases involving threats, either general or specific. To be a crime, a weapon must actually be displayed. Obviously some people have a lower threshold for fear than others."
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/brandishing-law/

[url]http://www.justanswer.com/criminal-law/1j424-brandishing-firearm-when-firearm-carrying.html
[/URL]

 

[turborich]

"In most states, it is a felony to exhibit a weapon in an angry or threatening manner. In the rest it is a misdemeanor with very unpleasant consequences. The term may not be specifically defined. It has usually been construed in cases involving threats, either general or specific. To be a crime, a weapon must actually be displayed. Obviously some people have a lower threshold for fear than others."
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/brandishing-law/

[url]http://www.justanswer.com/criminal-law/1j424-brandishing-firearm-when-firearm-carrying.html
[/URL]

There was no exhibiting a weapon in an angry or threatening manor.

 

[Grapeshot]

There was no exhibiting a weapon in an angry or threatening manor.

In many (most?) states the threat (Brandishing) is that which is perceived by another as having the potential to cause such harm immediately. Just flipping your hip at a protagonist, calling attention to your gun is enough.

One of our own was so charged.....w/o ever directing specific attention to his OCd handgun. He eventually won in court, but not until after considerable time, expense, and personal tribulation.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?83848-**-Legal-Defense-fund-for-Skidmark-**&highlight=surrey

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?86931-Surry-Saga-%28Skidmark%29-amended-to-4-19-11-!!!!&highlight=surrey

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...orting-Skidmark-Jan-4th-2011&highlight=surrey

 

[jfrey123]

Grapeshot, your input is helpful for people to be aware of in general. But as stated by your links, it depends on the state and our gal's actions don't appear to be criminal in Nevada.

 

[Grapeshot]

Grapeshot, your input is helpful for people to be aware of in general. But as stated by your links, it depends on the state and our gal's actions don't appear to be criminal in Nevada.

I understand that.

There is very little difference between Brandishing and simple Assault (not touching) except assault is not determined by how someone is made to feel, but what the principal actor does or says.

Bottom line for me is that I do not handle/touch my gun w/o due cause.

As a highly recognized RKBA attorney (member User on OCDO) has said (paraphrasing), "Don't reach for your gun unless you have reason to shoot them. That I can defend."


I'm not saying that the lady was wrong or did anything illegal according to Nevada law. What I am saying is that it would not be my choice - think it creates as many problems as it might seem to solve.....and it is always better to not be a part of the problem.

 

[28kfps]

In many (most?) states the threat (Brandishing) is that which is perceived by another as having the potential to cause such harm immediately. Just flipping your hip at a protagonist, calling attention to your gun is enough.

One of our own was so charged.....w/o ever directing specific attention to his OCd handgun. He eventually won in court, but not until after considerable time, expense, and personal tribulation.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?83848-**-Legal-Defense-fund-for-Skidmark-**&highlight=surrey

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?86931-Surry-Saga-%28Skidmark%29-amended-to-4-19-11-!!!!&highlight=surrey

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...orting-Skidmark-Jan-4th-2011&highlight=surrey

Interesting reading however, it for the most part shows there is always the willingness of some to take things to the extreme. I contend those are examples of taken it to the extreme that are very unlikely in Nevada. I am of the opinion our County District Attorney has show more of a common since approach on armed civilians protecting themselves. Your reply does point out what we believe is the norm can change in split second with every situation due to the reactions of one person, or LEO if willing to take it to the extreme unfortunately comes with the territory of packing.
With that said your first reaction was done in the fashion of it was done all wrong instead of sharing the last information where a finger pointing was seen as an assault. You jump all over the issues as if they were done wrong by the OP and the OP did not meet the requirements needed to justify their reaction that safely got them out of a bad situation that was ramping up. Many on most of the pro gun sites I surf say anytime one goes home in such situations not hurt, no shots fired, and not arrested job well done. Often posted to learn from not to get jumped on.

 

[OC for ME]

... I'm not saying that the lady was wrong or did anything illegal according to Nevada law. What I am saying is that it would not be my choice - ...

Of course you did, and to turborich as well.

Shudda just left it at "it would not be my choice" from the gitgo.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped--
With that said your first reaction was done in the fashion of it was done all wrong instead of sharing the last information where a finger pointing was seen as an assault. You jump all over the issues as if they were done wrong by the OP and the OP did not meet the requirements needed to justify their reaction that safely got them out of a bad situation that was ramping up. Many on most of the pro gun sites I surf say anytime one goes home in such situations not hurt, no shots fired, and not arrested job well done. Often posted to learn from not to get jumped on.

Of course you did, and to turborich as well.

Shudda just left it at "it would not be my choice" from the gitgo.

My sincere apology to both Jeanette and turborich if either was offended. That was not my intent.

However, I do not see where I jumped on any issues "as if they were done wrong......" My replies were worded as questions - it's called sharing and learning.

Regarding going home not hurt, no shots fired, and not arrested - Skidmark (in my links) accomplished just that. He was arrested some time later at 0'dark thirty. He got quite an education before it was all over too.

My purpose on responding to these issues under discussion here is to help others avoid the stump holes hidden amongst the trees....and learn.

 

[solus]

Now days, these days of the perpetually offended hypersensitive, offense, like beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder. (And Shakespeare said no such thing.)

those dastardly Greeks in the 3 BC...

Shakespeare expressed a similar sentiment in Love's Labours Lost, 1588:


Good Lord Boyet, my beauty, though but mean,
Needs not the painted flourish of your praise:
Beauty is bought by judgement of the eye,
Not utter'd by base sale of chapmen's tongues

ipse

 

[mp06011999]

I've a friend who carries, but won't oc because he says "people are nervous enough". Interesting because he too is worried about the flak he may encounter for a harmless act meant to defend himself.

Every bullet has a lawyer attached to it. We live in a sue happy society. Hell, people are afraid to physically punish children because of flak from the overly sensitive. All valid concerns. But one I feel takes a back seat. While I don't want an armed encounter, it won't be the law or a jury's sensitivities I'll be concerned with if life or property are in danger. Defense of my self, my loved ones and my property are my top priorities. For everything else there's a lawyer on speed dial and bankruptcy court after I pay his bill.

I can't go to court if I'm dead... because I was afraid to act because I was afraid of going to jail / court. And btw, "acting" also includes retreat.

 

[Jeannette]

My sincere apology to both Jeanette and turborich if either was offended. That was not my intent.

However, I do not see where I jumped on any issues "as if they were done wrong......" My replies were worded as questions - it's called sharing and learning.

Regarding going home not hurt, no shots fired, and not arrested - Skidmark (in my links) accomplished just that. He was arrested some time later at 0'dark thirty. He got quite an education before it was all over too.

My purpose on responding to these issues under discussion here is to help others avoid the stump holes hidden amongst the trees....and learn.

No offense taken. After all, this is what this forum is all about...sharing and learning. I forgot to point out that he was on my strong side during this whole thing. So either he didn't see it or saw it and just thought that I wasn't going to use it if I had to.

 

[Grapeshot]

No offense taken. After all, this is what this forum is all about...sharing and learning. I forgot to point out that he was on my strong side during this whole thing. So either he didn't see it or saw it and just thought that I wasn't going to use it if I had to.

Glad that you were able to convince him that you would do what was necessary to protect yourself, w/o the need for further interaction.

 

[28kfps]

Went to the Dr Office to pick up a prescription never an issue at this Dr Office. Next on to Sketchers Shoe store on Flamingo near Maryland Parkway. OCing after being in the store for 10 or so minutes I noticed a security guard wondering and looking thinking he was looking for me. He finally found me and walked up to me was very professional. A young man big guy make a good size linebacker. He asked if I had a concealed permit. I said it is not required for open carrying. He did not need to know about the Sig 938 9mm I also had concealed. He said ok he said they require him to ask when a person walks in with a gun. I told him most people that open carry take the question do you have a concealed permit as an insult. I told him I was an activist; I do know the gun laws. I said it is not your fault the training you receive is very weak. I gave him one of my information cards with the open carry web sites on it. I said check out Nevadacarry.org read and learn you will know the gun laws better than anyone you work for and better than many cops.

We picked out our shoes walked up to the cashier the young lady said so what do you have on your hip I told her; She said she has a 9mm I said cool. She said her and the family shoot almost every week. Said she wanted to get a 45. I gave her one of my cards and she saw that I am a Front Sight member she said the family is members also said she was at a class last weekend. I said very cool. A coworker of hers standing there listening said you shoot guns the young lady helping said you didn’t know that about me?

We then headed to Famous Dave’s on Blue Diamond no issues and a really good dinner.