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Ground Zero Mosque

slowfiveoh

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Don't bother responding to Tawnos, nor even trying to have a meaningful conversation with him.

His perception is terrible.
His comprehension is worse.

The guy doesn't even understand the definition of the term "ideology", and will reduce the argument to an assault on grammar when his critical thinking skills fail him.


I don't think anybody on here (I would hope anyways) has anything against Islam specifically
.
However, if "Christians" were to be engaged in the same conduct, I assure you that some would be speaking out actively against said activities, in an attempt to stymie the growth of a bigoted viewpoint, and spread the true message of their faith as the see it.

Can anyone show me some Islamic outrage at the acts of terrorism that have been carried out under the cloak of "Islam"?

Any public outreach programs?



Nope. Guess not.

Must just be nice having that extra bit of "leverage", that comes with being pseudo-identified with a terrorist group.

Great Britain allowed "Sharias Law" to be implemented, and the presence of Islamic Justice Centers to preclude many of their own societal laws.

Wonder where the Islamic factions gathered the political clout/pressure to do that?

Hrmm...I wonder....


This list is practically endless too, by the way.


However, most Islamic bodies just close their mouths and smile.

I wonder what kind of message that sends?


Just sayin...
 

eye95

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I may thoroughly disagree with the poster you mention, but I have to say that I detest call-out posts. I think we should strongly take issue with what people say and do in these threads, but avoid talking about what another poster is.

It is possible to give post with an opposing view no quarter at all, while not saying anything about the poster himself or his attributes. To me, saying, "He is..." or "His ___tion is..." is where criticism of what one says or does descends into an insult of the person himself and should be avoided.

JMO.
 

Jack House

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http://www.news.com.au/world/failed...ld-brace-for-war/story-e6frfkyi-1225934643128"
"Brace yourselves because the war with the Muslims has just begun," a defiant Shahzad told the judge before the sentence was delivered. The defeat of the US is imminent and will happen in the near future."

Headlines down under this morning. I am wondering if an Muslims in the US are up in arms about this revelation by a convicted Muslim bomber?

Will the Imam's stop the push to build a Mosque at Ground Zero seeing this war with Muslims is about to begin? Haz.
Right, because the ravings of a lone madman are undeniable truth.
 

slowfiveoh

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I may thoroughly disagree with the poster you mention, but I have to say that I detest call-out posts. I think we should strongly take issue with what people say and do in these threads, but avoid talking about what another poster is.

It is possible to give post with an opposing view no quarter at all, while not saying anything about the poster himself or his attributes. To me, saying, "He is..." or "His ___tion is..." is where criticism of what one says or does descends into an insult of the person himself and should be avoided.

JMO.

This is appropriate etiquette when the poster does not launch an all out assault on the poster who is calling him out, in the most denigrating fashion he can muster.

According to Tawnos, I am:

A) A Bigot
B) Prejudiced
C) Possess poor grammatical skills
D) Possess a mental deficiency


I would not even bother posting in reply to his commentary, were he not known for his relentless backing of all things Muslim on this forum (and probably elsewhere).

I am surprised he has not referred to you as racist, or worse, at this point in time.
 

eye95

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If I had seen such personal attacks, I likely would have said something. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't see what he writes. While no less reprehensible, burying insults to the person to whom one is replying in that reply is far less noticeable than writing a post for the sole purpose of insulting a third party to a second.

JMO and MO (moving on).
 

Tawnos

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I would not even bother posting in reply to his commentary, were he not known for his relentless backing of all things Muslim on this forum (and probably elsewhere).

This shows just how little you know about me.

Apparently, standing up for a disenfranchised group who is the target of a bigoted smear campaign is "relentless backing of all things Muslim." Odd, the only thing I recall doing was 1) saying they should have the unopposed right to build a community center in New York City and 2) saying that misquoting something to denigrate a group is asinine.

There are many things that people who are Muslim have done that I disagree with, and I certainly don't revere Muhammad, any more than I do other fictitious religious characters (Zeus, Jesus, Wotan, and all the rest). Why would that make me a "backer?"

As for being a bigot... here's the definition:
intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views

How do you NOT meet that? I can certainly dig through your past posts and show you every place you've acted that way, but that would be flogging a dead equine at this point.


Your grammatical skill level exists regardless of my own critique of it. The fact is, I simply used your words with certain key substitutions. To do so, I copied and pasted your own post, which had its fair share of grammatical mistakes. Rather than accepting that maybe, just maybe, you had made grammatical errors, you got pissy and started attacking me for simply NOTING that all grammatical mistakes were inherent to the source. Let's start with something simple: it's not called "Sharias" law, but Sharia law. If you can't get that very basic thing right, how can I trust any other point you make?

Want to know the worst irony of this whole thing? You asked if there are "Any public outreach programs?" That is the core reason for Park51, which is meant to be an interfaith community center. Additionally, you seem to have conveniently ignored links I've given where Muslims have been outraged and saddened by the things done in the name of their religion, condemning the acts of terrorists. Of course, you could have found this yourself, but instead chose to continue perpetrating the divisive view that they are "others" who lack the decency to despise terrorism.

I guess if you don't interact with Muslims every day in your life (along with diverse other worldviews), it's easy to be ignorant to them as PEOPLE. And really, that's all we all are in the end: humans dealing with human problems using human solutions. Why we continue to engage in this tribalistic bullshiat I cannot fathom, but it seems you're more than willing to continue the fight. What end do you hope to gain by holding such disdain?
 

PrayingForWar

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The Real World.
You people who oppose this mosque need to realize what the real threat is. It's not the muslims.

In spite of what this clown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pFEY255FfY

says, there is no desire in the islamic community to conquer the world. There also have not been over 16000 deadly attacks by islamic radicals all over the world since 9/11/2001. That's just Rightwing Christian propaganda. In fact, Christians kill far more people in the name of Jesus than anyone does for allah. Everyday some redneck blows himself up in a crowded markets yelling "JESUS LOVES YOU!!!" Nobody in these Christian countries are ever prosecuted by the other Christians for their numerous bombings, beheadings, shootings, kidnapping, stonings or rapes either. These Christian terrorists are only condemned by others as lip service to the rest of the world.

So stop arguing against the religion of peace, they're just trying to reach out and help us get over the daily attacks by these Christian radicals all over the world, who build their churches in conquered lands, and go bat$hit crazy when a tiny piece of wasteland is taken back by some Zionists.

SARCASM OFF.

The real threat to our nation really is not islam. It's condescending leftist doucebags who will drag every past crime of the western world as proof that we should be tolerant of present day acts of violence by whatever group the moonbat left wants to coddle. I don't give a damn about the Mosque, if the people in NYC are not so up in arms about it so as to prevent it's construction, fine. What disgusts me are the delusional moonbats with zero critical thinking skills who smugly lecture everyone else about "open mindedness, tolerance, and enlightenment", and then call people a bigot after they're proved irrational and just plain wrong. If not for these idiots, there would be no chance America would capitulate to acts of terrorism by islamic radicals, and they wouldn't have come here in the first place.

Another delightful quality libs have is their steadfast support of women's and gay's rights, just not in Saudi Arabia.:rolleyes:
 

Tawnos

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Yeah, because there are no Christian nuts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns-kPDVXACE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2STDH14aJVk&feature=related
What was it that the christian mythology taught? Remove the plank in your eye...

Yeah, the guy in the video you posted is crazy, as crazy as the Phelps clan, perhaps. I think we can all acknowledge that, and I will certainly stand beside you and fight if he or anyone similar tried to take over the country and enact Sharia law. The thing is, I see fewer actual legislative or political efforts to enact Sharia law than I do Christians who want to post the 10 commandments on federal buildings, who want to affect the political process while retaining tax-free status, and who continually claim that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.

If I were to see Muslims elected and trying to put the words of Muhammad on the side of buildings, or to actually enact Sharia law (and I'm not talking about some fringe preacher saying "I want to see this", I mean actual legislation), then I will be just as incensed and fighting against it. But posting a video of some crackpot is about as valid as me saying that the Phelps (or the people in Jesus Camp, the preachers who get on TV and talk about how horrible things are gods will, etc) represent the will of Christians in the nation.
 

slowfiveoh

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This shows just how little you know about me.

Apparently, standing up for a disenfranchised group who is the target of a bigoted smear campaign is "relentless backing of all things Muslim." Odd, the only thing I recall doing was 1) saying they should have the unopposed right to build a community center in New York City and 2) saying that misquoting something to denigrate a group is asinine.

This is incorrect. However, we will move past this omission on your behalf.

There are many things that people who are Muslim have done that I disagree with, and I certainly don't revere Muhammad, any more than I do other fictitious religious characters (Zeus, Jesus, Wotan, and all the rest). Why would that make me a "backer?"

Simple.

Your responses are deeply emotive. This is to the point that you actually completely miscomprehended a valid question I posed, to the point of becoming hostile about it.

Again, you are emotive.

As for being a bigot... here's the definition:
intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views

Which is why my open, well phrased, and concise questions were followed up with my firm belief that Islam indeed is supposed to be a "religion of peace".

It is also why you are incapable of comprehending the term, "ideology".

Simply because you could not calm your temper down, you raged like a child in response to some pretty non-offensive questions in a very bigoted manner.\

Just sayin...

How do you NOT meet that? I can certainly dig through your past posts and show you every place you've acted that way, but that would be flogging a dead equine at this point.

It would be proving you wrong.

That's why you are not inclined to do it.

Your grammatical skill level exists regardless of my own critique of it. The fact is, I simply used your words with certain key substitutions. To do so, I copied and pasted your own post, which had its fair share of grammatical mistakes. Rather than accepting that maybe, just maybe, you had made grammatical errors, you got pissy and started attacking me for simply NOTING that all grammatical mistakes were inherent to the source.

You're intimidated. Therefore you rage about grammar as if it were in any way, shape, or form a valid point of contention in our conversations.

I have seen you do this several times, and frankly you should be emberassed. Do you really believe that everybody on this forum should be a master in all forms and dialects of any language we choose to speak in? Are you so pompous that you believe you are the culmination of all that wonderful in the world of "English"?

Pathetic.

Tawnos, your comments are replete with grammatical errors, typos, and misspellings.

I even replied with a cut and paste from your own commentary, and surprise surprise, you had no witty replies for your errors.


Let's start with something simple: it's not called "Sharias" law, but Sharia law. If you can't get that very basic thing right, how can I trust any other point you make?

By not being a pompous ass and realizing that minor grammatical mistakes occur.

How do you even put your fingers to the keyboard and reply without this type of pompousness to 3/4 of the replies on this forum.

I don't know about you Tawnos, but I do not feel a compelling urge to denigrate any user on this forum based on their grammatic errors.

You misspelled a ton in your replies in another thread, but unlike you, I didn't feel the need to point it out more than once. That one time, because you needed to be swiftly kicked off your imaginary throne of superiority.

Want to know the worst irony of this whole thing? You asked if there are "Any public outreach programs?" That is the core reason for Park51, which is meant to be an interfaith community center.

Can you cite that the purpose for this center is to be a community outreach center specifically built for the purpose of spreading the true, peaceful message of Allah, as opposed to a symbol of victory over American life, as is believed via "ideology", by most of those who are not familiar with the Islamic faith?

Additionally, you seem to have conveniently ignored links I've given where Muslims have been outraged and saddened by the things done in the name of their religion, condemning the acts of terrorists.

I was thankful for the links, and did in fact read them. Thank you for sharing them.


Of course, you could have found this yourself, but instead chose to continue perpetrating the divisive view that they are "others" who lack the decency to despise terrorism.

I am amazed at your lack of intuition, and lack of any sort of reasoning process.

Tawnos. Here is a protip for you.

Stop with the suppositions. How's that sound?

The purpose for my post was to create a template for those on this forum, or other visitors, to see a thread already addressing some of their misplaced, or ill-conceived concerns.

In the same way we bring awareness to the site in the form of thoughtful posts, asking the difficult questions, to further the cause of OC, so too can we further the educational efforts of those who are misinformed, confused, or otherwise harboring any sort of misplaced feelings towards an otherwise peaceful group.

We do this by addressing the common questions.

I am very sorry you do not understand this.

I guess if you don't interact with Muslims every day in your life (along with diverse other worldviews), it's easy to be ignorant to them as PEOPLE. And really, that's all we all are in the end: humans dealing with human problems using human solutions. Why we continue to engage in this tribalistic bullshiat I cannot fathom, but it seems you're more than willing to continue the fight. What end do you hope to gain by holding such disdain?

Hopefully to correct your completely inappropriate, and inaccurate view of myself, while simultaneously educating you as to how pompous a lot of your replies are.

Now, while you're egregiously assessing the level of my bigotry, I am off to serve my clients.

A large portion of which have names like "Mohammed", or "Aabil".

Have fun with your poster bashing.
 
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BTJ138

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I love this debate, it makes me laugh every time someone brings it up. I just can't imagine why anyone even cares where they build a mosque. Don't we have much larger problems going on in this country at the moment? I guess everyone has to have a "cause" to champion.
 

Tawnos

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This is incorrect. However, we will move past this omission on your behalf.
What is incorrect? That you know little about me, that there is a bigoted smear campaign related to Park51, or that I support the building without people claiming it's somehow insensitive, or that I think it's asinine to misquote a group as a means of attacking them? Please, be specific and use examples.

Simple.

Your responses are deeply emotive. This is to the point that you actually completely miscomprehended a valid question I posed, to the point of becoming hostile about it.

Again, you are emotive.
Generally I'm described as coldly rational. I'm sure my girlfriend will be thrilled to hear that I acted in a way that someone thought I was emotionally driven rather than logically compelled.

Which is why my open, well phrased, and concise questions were followed up with my firm belief that Islam indeed is supposed to be a "religion of peace".
I pointed out in that post that your questions were neither open nor well-phrased. Two of them were quite leading, and they held a presumed bias as truth. To link the threads together - Muslims should no more have to proactively distance themselves from terrorists than you should have to proactively distance yourself from Westboro Baptist Church. Second, an open question is not begged. You included your viewpoint on the building as if it were truth, and couldn't (don't?) understand that to answer the question as posed means one would implicitly be accepting its bias.

It is also why you are incapable of comprehending the term, "ideology".
The only one having trouble understanding is you. When you say "which[,] ideologically speaking, represents the same extremists" you are not saying "many people view a mosque as representing extremists." That sentence construct says a mosque does represent extremists in the context of social norms. You do not leave open even the possibility that many could see a mosque and not see extremists, but presume it to be fact that the prevailing social norm (aka ideology) supports that view.

It would be proving you wrong.

That's why you are not inclined to do it.

You're intimidated. Therefore you rage about grammar as if it were in any way, shape, or form a valid point of contention in our conversations.

I have seen you do this several times, and frankly you should be emberassed. Do you really believe that everybody on this forum should be a master in all forms and dialects of any language we choose to speak in? Are you so pompous that you believe you are the culmination of all that wonderful in the world of "English"?
Actually, it's because I am tired of reading posts where you are incapable of understanding how the formation of a question affects its logical coherence. The simplest way for you to have corrected this would be to have dropped question #3 and amended #4. The former because it presumes that it's a requirement for a group that you've unfairly associated with extremists to proactively distance themselves, when you're making the association, they don't ask for it. The latter because it's a valid question sans the implied fact. That is, if you said "Freedom, and Constitutional liberties aside do you believe the building of a Mosque is the wisest thing to do as a representation of Islamic intent in the US?" In this case, an answerer to the question does not have to avoid the landmine of "mosque == represents extremists".

Pathetic.
I thought you said not to use ad hominem, but here you are doing that to me.

Tawnos, your comments are replete with grammatical errors, typos, and misspellings.
Care to point them out (here's a link of all my posts)? I certainly make typos from time to time, but I generally work to use proper grammar and spelling. I do think it's of the utmost importance to communicate in the best English we are capable. Part of this view comes from reading the documents of the founding fathers; they exercised exquisite writing skills in their letters and commentaries. Additionally, many lawmakers and judges are well-educated and well-read. As such, they are likely to evaluate the strength of one's argument based on form as well as function. It's a sad reality, but a reality nonetheless.

I even replied with a cut and paste from your own commentary, and surprise surprise, you had no witty replies for your errors.
You did? Care to link me to it? I've reread the other thread and don't find anything. I do find you claiming "proof" out of thin air, though. That still amuses me.

By not being a pompous ass and realizing that minor grammatical mistakes occur.

How do you even put your fingers to the keyboard and reply without this type of pompousness to 3/4 of the replies on this forum.

I don't know about you Tawnos, but I do not feel a compelling urge to denigrate any user on this forum based on their grammatic errors.

You misspelled a ton in your replies in another thread, but unlike you, I didn't feel the need to point it out more than once. That one time, because you needed to be swiftly kicked off your imaginary throne of superiority.
Again, just give me a link. I already provided the search query. I went back about 5 pages and couldn't find it.

Can you cite that the purpose for this center is to be a community outreach center specifically built for the purpose of spreading the true, peaceful message of Allah, as opposed to a symbol of victory over American life, as is believed via "ideology", by most of those who are not familiar with the Islamic faith?
How about this? There are other links there about the plans, but all of them seem pretty straightforward. Now, don't get me started on "true, peaceful message of Allah". I don't hold any religion in particularly high regard. I can't help that "most of those who are not familiar with the Islamic faith" are so dumb that they think it's a symbol of victory over American life. Seriously, I can't help that, those people are morons. To rehash the earlier analogy, it's like saying a YMCA built in Atlanta, GA is the symbol of victory of Christian terrorists over the American way of life. It makes no sense.

I was thankful for the links, and did in fact read them. Thank you for sharing them.
You said you hadn't seen *anything*. Even in the previous thread I shared a simple search query that brought up all kinds of articles about the very thing you presumed never occurs. While Muslims shouldn't have to apologize for the acts of the extremists, they still have been, yet apparently it's not good enough.

I am amazed at your lack of intuition, and lack of any sort of reasoning process.
Okay, ad hominem number 2, I'm done with answering you.

 

eye95

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I love this debate, it makes me laugh every time someone brings it up. I just can't imagine why anyone even cares where they build a mosque. Don't we have much larger problems going on in this country at the moment? I guess everyone has to have a "cause" to champion.

I don't doubt that you can't imagine it. However, before you or anyone else assumes that, because they cannot imagine it, no one should care, remember that there are folks out there who can't imagine why anyone would care about carrying openly.

Now, before the onslaught of "OC is a different issue from building the mosque at Ground Zero" arguments begin, that is not the point. The point is that not having the imagination to wrap one's mind around why an issue is important to folks is a really silly reason to dismiss the issue--whatever the issue is and whoever it matters to.
 

slowfiveoh

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I pointed out in that post that your questions were neither open nor well-phrased. Two of them were quite leading, and they held a presumed bias as truth.

In YOUR mind.


To link the threads together - Muslims should no more have to proactively distance themselves from terrorists than you should have to proactively distance yourself from Westboro Baptist Church.

So your perspective is that when terror is carried out in the name of "Christianity", no christians should say anything at all despite a growing affiliation with something less savory?

The only one having trouble understanding is you. When you say "which[,] ideologically speaking, represents the same extremists" you are not saying "many people view a mosque as representing extremists." That sentence construct says a mosque does represent extremists in the context of social norms. You do not leave open even the possibility that many could see a mosque and not see extremists, but presume it to be fact that the prevailing social norm (aka ideology) supports that view.

Absolutely incorrect.

The inferrence is merely that an "ideological view" does in fact exist. - Fact

It does not subscribe the rest of humanity to the same point of view. - Fact

If the former were not the case, as you conclude by stating the question was begged, then we would not be having this cheerful conversation, nor would a forum post about "Mosques at Ground Zero" crop up anywhere. Therefore, my observation that the ideology exists, is absolutely correct. - Fact


Do you deny these facts?

Does this forum, and the others like it exist?

Does the ideology exist wherein people think as a mass generalization that "Guns are bad mmmk"?

Or would it be "begging the question" to state that "Ideologically speaking, constitutional carry represents a grave threat to national safety, in the minds of many"?

Welcome to comprehension of the English language, advanced course. My name is Jason.

Thanks for attending my class.

I don't doubt that you can't imagine it. However, before you or anyone else assumes that, because they cannot imagine it, no one should care, remember that there are folks out there who can't imagine why anyone would care about carrying openly.

Now, before the onslaught of "OC is a different issue from building the mosque at Ground Zero" arguments begin, that is not the point. The point is that not having the imagination to wrap one's mind around why an issue is important to folks is a really silly reason to dismiss the issue--whatever the issue is and whoever it matters to.

Oh boy!

Sir you and I are on equal wavelengths even though I have expressed disdain for your method of leaving a conversation.

The parallel you posted, is absolutely staggering.

There is, IN FACT, an ideology that exists wherein significant masses believe constitutional carry, as a parallel to the conversation, represents a national hazard. Wherein law abiding gun owners (parallel = Muslims) are wantonly tossed in with criminals (i.e. "Terrorists").

Admitting existence and bluntly stating the question with facts that present themselves, is NOT begging the question!

Thank you Eye, that was a breath of fresh air!
 
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Haz.

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I come from a land downunder.
I love this debate, it makes me laugh every time someone brings it up. I just can't imagine why anyone even cares where they build a mosque. Don't we have much larger problems going on in this country at the moment? I guess everyone has to have a "cause" to champion.

When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
 

Tawnos

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FFS I can't believe I'm responding to this, but here goes.

I do not think Christians should have to distance themselves from the Crusades. I think the Crusades can be used to show the effects religion can have when taken to radical extremes, just like Muslim suicide attackers show what can happen when a different religion is taken to radical extremes. Neither group strikes me as inherently odious, though the application of their beliefs can certainly do so.

These statements are true: Yes, there are some who think that mosque = terrorism. No, that does not hold the rest of humanity to the same POV.

The problem is when you say that something is, "ideologically speaking." Then you are no longer speaking within the context of "some people view as", but you have crossed into the realm of "within the set of the US social beliefs". Rather than saying "Some view a mosque as a victory of extremism over America, do you think this view is correct? Do you think it's okay to build the mosque in light of this view?", you choose to presume the view as true in the phrasing of the question. At that point, rather than asking a question, you're begging a question. The phrase "ideologically speaking" turns something from "the opinion to some" to "the prevailing ideology of our social status quo".

Basically, the disconnect happens between your second and third "facts". Just because some hold the belief does not mean the belief is, ideologically speaking, valid. Your pompous arrogance notwithstanding (I hardly think you're qualified to teach advanced English), there was an inherent bias in the phrasing of your questions, and a biased question necessitates a biased answer.
 

slowfiveoh

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FFS I can't believe I'm responding to this, but here goes.

I do not think Christians should have to distance themselves from the Crusades. I think the Crusades can be used to show the effects religion can have when taken to radical extremes, just like Muslim suicide attackers show what can happen when a different religion is taken to radical extremes. Neither group strikes me as inherently odious, though the application of their beliefs can certainly do so.

But to interleave successfully with society, and to not distance those who are in the middle, a little outreach never hurt anybody.

I was opening a door for those who thought in the similar perspective in which the question was posed, to receive an answer they did not expect.

It helps to ask in a way that most mirrors the views of those who are affected, or parallel in thought, to the question at the time.

These statements are true: Yes, there are some who think that mosque = terrorism. No, that does not hold the rest of humanity to the same POV.

Which part of "ideology" is all inclusive of the rest of the human race?

Do you believe an "ideology" is all inclusive Tawnos?

The problem is when you say that something is, "ideologically speaking." Then you are no longer speaking within the context of "some people view as", but you have crossed into the realm of "within the set of the US social beliefs".

Incorrect.

When stating that something is "ideologically speaking", one could, and is most definitely, speaking about a subset of beliefs based on any given structure.

The population of the subset is not infinite, nor assumed.

Is there an "ideological view" in this country, as well as abroad, that sadly believes that Islam is a "Religion of Terror"?

Answer that honestly.


Rather than saying "Some view a mosque as a victory of extremism over America, do you think this view is correct? Do you think it's okay to build the mosque in light of this view?", you choose to presume the view as true in the phrasing of the question.

Incorrect.

Unless you believe that for something to be "ideological", it must be based on irrefutable facts.

If you fall for this fallacy, then might I point to the arguments between the DNC and GOP?

Do you believe that any ideology applies to both simultaneously, or that each group has created their own belief structure from which to expound upon?


At that point, rather than asking a question, you're begging a question. The phrase "ideologically speaking" turns something from "the opinion to some" to "the prevailing ideology of our social status quo".

Incorrect.

From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of IDEOLOGY

1
: visionary theorizing

2
a : a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture c : the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program



Please demonstrate for me once Tawnos, where the term "Ideological" is all-inclusive, and points to the entire US as you have stated in this very reply.

There is a focus on this event (The building of the Mosque) that has sprang forth, because an ideology exists, that has prompted the start of many forum threads, and newscasts.

Ignoring this is blind at best, pitifully ignorant at worst.

Basically, the disconnect happens between your second and third "facts". Just because some hold the belief does not mean the belief is, ideologically speaking, valid.

The disconnect is your fail belief that an "ideological viewpoint" is somehow all inclusive.

Stopping you right there at this enormous failure of English comprehension is all that really needs to be said.

I don't agree with most Liberals on most topics, but rest assured that they actually have an "ideological viewpoint", that forms the backbone of their belief process.

Naturally you would assume all people to be liberal, in this poignant case.



Your pompous arrogance notwithstanding (I hardly think you're qualified to teach advanced English), there was an inherent bias in the phrasing of your questions, and a biased question necessitates a biased answer.

The only bias was in your flawed interpretation.

Learn to read.
Learn to comprehend.

Thanks. :)

P.S. I enjoy your compositional errors in this very reply you posted. Let me know when you can find them, or if you need me to point them out. :lol:
 

Tawnos

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Washington
Which part of "ideology" is all inclusive of the rest of the human race?

Do you believe an "ideology" is all inclusive Tawnos?

Are you incapable of separating "an ideology" and "ideologically speaking"? One of them pertains to a part, the other pertains to a whole

When stating that something is "ideologically speaking", one could, and is most definitely, speaking about a subset of beliefs based on any given structure.
Bull. When one says "ideologically speaking" they are not using the form of the word you claim. It means "relating to or concerned with ideas", not "an idea that some hold." The phrase "ideologically speaking" could be substituted with "when considered as an idea", but not "in the view of some". That's where you've failed, and failed, and failed. You cannot simply substitute "ideology" in place of "ideologically" and have a cogent argument, though you've certainly tried (and failed some more).

P.S. I enjoy your compositional errors in this very reply you posted. Let me know when you can find them, or if you need me to point them out. :lol:
Go for it, if you feel that it's right. While you're being petty, I will point out that your spelling of "embarrassed" was wrong, that you should have used a semicolon in the first sentence of this reply, you should not have used a comma before "or" in the third sentence of this reply, and that's just in a quick page down/page up glance. Be my guest to show me my "compositional errors." Should I have made them, I will admit to their veracity and learn something for it.
 

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Richmond, VA
Are you incapable of separating "an ideology" and "ideologically speaking"? One of them pertains to a part, the other pertains to a whole.

Incorrect.

I am literally laughing so hard at this totally petty attempt to differentiate a statement inclusive of a term, from its implied meaning.

I hate to say this Tawnos, but you are TERRIBLE at this English thing.

Here's a wonderful article for you:
http://www.pathwaysproject.org/pathways/show/Ideology_of_the_Text

When one states that they are "ideologically speaking", they are referring to a subset of beliefs that composes a large portion of ones belief structure. It is a pattern of belief (<-- this is important!) that comprises the body of a whole thought process.

It is not all inclusive.
It is also not inherently true.

Lrn2English.

Bull. When one says "ideologically speaking" they are not using the form of the word you claim. It means "relating to or concerned with ideas", not "an idea that some hold." The phrase "ideologically speaking" could be substituted with "when considered as an idea", but not "in the view of some".

Incorrect again.

ideo·log·i·cal

adj \ˌī-dē-ə-ˈlä-ji-kəl, ˌi-\
Definition of IDEOLOGICAL

1
: relating to or concerned with ideas

2
: of, relating to, or based on ---------->ideology <----------




That's where you've failed, and failed, and failed. You cannot simply substitute "ideology" in place of "ideologically" and have a cogent argument, though you've certainly tried (and failed some more).

As opposed to assuming that "ideologically", was all inclusive.

You just got handed your compositional ass, and I see you're having problems adjusting to it.


Go for it, if you feel that it's right. While you're being petty, I will point out that your spelling of "embarrassed" was wrong, that you should have used a semicolon in the first sentence of this reply, you should not have used a comma before "or" in the third sentence of this reply, and that's just in a quick page down/page up glance. Be my guest to show me my "compositional errors." Should I have made them, I will admit to their veracity and learn something for it.

I was not the one who had any compelling interest in denigrating somebody for their lack of grammar mastery.

That was you, from the start.

Here is some winning material for you though, since you are still thoroughly pompous in your belief you are right, and some sort of grammatical genius.

Unless a person or group is actively saying "yeah, terrorism is awesome and justified in the name of the sky wizard!" you should presume the group does not support such barbarism.

Lack of capitalization in a quoted sentence.

Seriously, though, you did say this:
"Where is the condemnation and outrage for killings such as those?"
and this
"I think a leader of a major Muslim body who actually called a press conference and condemned what the terrorists do in the name of his religion, would make international news!"
and this
"Let me just say that being unable to condemn the actions of a terrorist, regardless of their religious/political background or affiliation, is really sad and unacceptable in a civilized world."

Terrible structure.

The difference is one between "this is" and "this is perceived as", nuanced, yet utterly important.

Just LOL.
 

Tawnos

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Washington
And, back to ignoring you, as you're not worth the effort, as you're too dumb to even know when you're wrong. Have a nice life.
 
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