They took my gun!!

[OC for ME]

When did I ever say I carry illegally? <snip>

You did, in your op. You knew it was unlawful to carry om indian land.

 

[bc.cruiser]

deleted

 

[MAC702]

You did, in your op. You knew it was unlawful to carry om indian land.

Actually, I believe he was wrong in that. I find no state law that makes firearms possession illegal on Indian lands. Tribal laws do not apply to non-tribal members. I'm still looking, but the most I can see is that the Indians can only trespass him from their lands, or at least back onto the highway.

I myself have carried on AZ Indian reservations. I did not violate any law that applied to me by doing so.*

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/tribal_law_ccw.pdf

OP, which reservation was it? They have different tribal laws. It doesn't matter for the state laws applicable to you, however.

*If I were a Havasupai Tribal member, I'd have been just as guilty for having the flask of single-malt in my backpack, as I was for having the Smith & Wesson AirLite. But I would be prosecuted by the Tribe, not by the state.

 

[MAC702]

Actually, I just cited a reliable source that listed them, or at least a very good place to start.

 

[wabbit]

His question was answered soon into the thread and a personal opinion was given with the answer. The OP responded with hostilities and similar such responses, insinuating the fact he was immature and/or trolling.
He did not come here to be "taught", he came for simple validation for his illegal carrying activity (ignorance of laws).
The OP also did not just go on the "defensive" once an opinion was given, he began attacking other members for disagreeing with his activities (i.e carrying illegally and his illegal drug use).

That being said, I do believe this thread should be locked.

forgive me grimes, could you point out in your humble opinion, who provided the nugget of information to the OP that you refer to? was that the infamous davidmcbeth as his advise is always so austute or firearms instructor or OC for Me or i know, nightmare provided invaluable sustenance to the OP and of course Jamescanby contributed to the opportunity as did bernymac.

yes, mac702 provided the first civil query back to the OP and continues to do so.

and your projection of why he arrived on the forum is irrelevant isn't it since you have not contributed anything either, except to recommend the thread be locked down.

sorry folks, think back to when you were young and err'd and be thankful there was someone to provide you appropriate guidance so you could forget that today there are still young adults needing our adult (?) guidance instead of lambasting what has occurred on this thread.

wabbit

 

[azcdlfred]

Plus the inconsistent use of spell check and punctuation.

Which makes me think

1.) Your trolling

2.) Your not responsible enough for firearms ownership

Looks like you win the "irony" award today :dude:

Fred

 

[Jeff Hayes]

I don't see what legal authority the tribe has to seize anything that isn't in accordance with state laws.

But I agree with the "good luck with that" part...

You are absolutely correct they do not have any legal authority to seize property or persons, assuming they are not cross deputized, but they do it all the time because they can get away with it.

 

[MAC702]

You are absolutely correct they do not have any legal authority to seize property or persons, assuming they are not cross deputized, but they do it all the time because they can get away with it.

Actually, I'm assuming they are "cross-deputized," which I assume means they are also a state-certified and sworn LEO.

But they have to be enforcing a state law when they do it, and I think that is lacking.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Actually, I believe he was wrong in that. I find no state law that makes firearms possession illegal on Indian lands. Tribal laws do not apply to non-tribal members. I'm still looking, but the most I can see is that the Indians can only trespass him from their lands, or at least back onto the highway.

I myself have carried on AZ Indian reservations. I did not violate any law that applied to me by doing so.*

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/tribal_law_ccw.pdf

OP, which reservation was it? They have different tribal laws. It doesn't matter for the state laws applicable to you, however.

*If I were a Havasupai Tribal member, I'd have been just as guilty for having the flask of single-malt in my backpack, as I was for having the Smith & Wesson AirLite. But I would be prosecuted by the Tribe, not by the state.

Well said and exactly correct.

I live in Arizona 4 to 5 months of the year. I am on and off of tribal property the whole time I am there. I have been thinking about paying an Attorney for an hour to give me his opinion on what would happen of I happened to inadvertently carry on tribal property. Sometimes the boarders are not well marked especially when out riding 4 wheelers in the desert. I believe all that could happen is my being trespassed since no federal or state law prohibits my carrying.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Actually, I'm assuming they are "cross-deputized," which I assume means they are also a state-certified and sworn LEO.

But they have to be enforcing a state law when they do it, and I think that is lacking.

Yes when i say cross deputized, I mean state certifed sworn LEO or what ever applies in what ever state they are in.

Once again you are correct the can only enforce state & federal laws.

 

[solus]

might view this link...

http://www.bia.gov/WhoWeAre/BIA/OJS/IPA/

ipse

 

[Gary Slider]

If you are not breaking any other laws of the state what I am hearing is you will lose your firearm and be kicked of the Reservation. I am also hearing you will never get your firearm back. If you are breaking other state laws they will most likely contact the local state authorities and they will come and they will arrest you. Most Tribes work closely with the the local Sheriff and State Officials in Law Enforcement. In some states they are also sworn state Police Officers. That depends on the state and the Tribe. New Mexico is the only state that has a statute that states your NM issued permit/license is not valid on the Reservations. Going to a Reservation is like leaving the country in some aspects. I remember talking to a Federal Agent who worked near and on a Reservation years back. I ask him what the laws were and how they worked. His answer was: "When you find out please tell me!"

 

[WalkingWolf]

It would depend a lot on the trespass laws in each state. Trespass is a crime, though a minor one, it varies on whether the notice has to be given personally. NOW doing drugs and trespassing while armed is just downright dumb.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Your diseased blanket will arrive soon.

 

[WalkingWolf]

While I fully support the second amendment as it was written, I also respect the right of a nation to be truly sovereign. IMO it is absolutely ridiculous that the nations cannot prosecute non tribal members for tribal laws, it is downright shameful and racist bigotry. I really am surprised this has not made it to SCOTUS. While I support gays to live their life with as much vigor as straight people. This goes beyond the bigotry shown to gays or blacks. Where are the civil rights movements for the NA, where the helll is Sharpton, and Jackson?

Taking advantage of the Nations limited capacity to prosecute non members is bigotry, and bordering on racism. Is it worth it to ignore their customs and laws?

 

[MAC702]

LOL and now a senior pundit responds with "What I hear" and "most" and cites a "Federal Agent[sic]."

For you newbies, Slider was principal in Packing.org - PDO - that may have been OCDO's predecessor.

He's also the owner of the site I cited. So, uh, I'll listen to him.

 

[Bernymac]

While I fully support the second amendment as it was written, I also respect the right of a nation to be truly sovereign. IMO it is absolutely ridiculous that the nations cannot prosecute non tribal members for tribal laws, it is downright shameful and racist bigotry. I really am surprised this has not made it to SCOTUS. While I support gays to live their life with as much vigor as straight people. This goes beyond the bigotry shown to gays or blacks. Where are the civil rights movements for the NA, where the helll is Sharpton, and Jackson?

Taking advantage of the Nations limited capacity to prosecute non members is bigotry, and bordering on racism. Is it worth it to ignore their customs and laws?

I don't think the federals want to give back what they took that they never owned in the first place. Restitutions to a conquered nation is probably not in the books

 

[notalawyer]

A couple of things need to be clarified.

Different tribes have different laws, for example the Colorado Indian Reservation says you can transport a firearm in your car but can not carry it on your person without a permit form the Tribal Counsel. Ft McDowell you can carry openly but not concealed. Gila River no carry, locked in the trunk may be OK maybe not their law is vague. There are about 12 different reservations in AZ all have slightly different rules.

It is my understanding that non tribal members can not be prosecuted under tribal law, how ever they can trespass you and confiscate your property such as your pistol. If they are cross deputized they can and will arrest you for violating AZ state law just like any other certified peace officer can and will. If they are not cross deputized they can and will hold you for a Sheriffs officer and trespass you officially if they want to.

The OP was not simply passing through a reservation something happened to cause them to find the firearm or he was openly carrying it without permission from the tribal counsel.

If this is true his firearm is history unless he can talk the tribal counsel into giving it back, I doubt it, I would not if I were them.

When you are on tribal land act like you are on private property because you are, it is their land.

If you are respectful and ask nice you may even be granted a permit for tribal property especially if you know a tribal member.

All in all I also think this is bogus.

I would not if I were them.

Why?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Your diseased blanket will arrive soon.

which would have no effect... since there's no historical record of that ever actually happening.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

While I fully support the second amendment as it was written, I also respect the right of a nation to be truly sovereign. IMO it is absolutely ridiculous that the nations cannot prosecute non tribal members for tribal laws, it is downright shameful and racist bigotry. I really am surprised this has not made it to SCOTUS. While I support gays to live their life with as much vigor as straight people. This goes beyond the bigotry shown to gays or blacks. Where are the civil rights movements for the NA, where the helll is Sharpton, and Jackson?

Taking advantage of the Nations limited capacity to prosecute non members is bigotry, and bordering on racism. Is it worth it to ignore their customs and laws?

It's not bigotry that certain groups of people who are allowed to practice laws that do not account for constitutional protections are not allowed to prosecute people outside their membership. to the best of my knowledge if a Skokomish visits the Navajo reservation the Navajos can't touch him with their tribal law either.

last I checked there's no "black courts" that can charge you under african customary law inside "black reservations" that are exempt from zoning and state laws restricting tobacco and gaming and fireworks. if Anything as far as ethnic groups go they're given more then any other.....