That "militia thing"

[sudden valley gunner]

IMHO, the necessity of a citizen militia has been eliminated now that we have the most powerful standing military in the world, with bases in every state. Now it is just an anachronism. The extremely small percentage of folks that envision forming a militia to take up arms against our democratically chosen govt. would get their asses handed to them by our nations LEOs. I don't even think the military would have to get involved, unless the insurgents had help from a foreign power, as we helped Afganistan against the Russians and France helped us against England. I don't understand the motivation of folks who spend time daydreaming about opening fire on other Americans because of political differences or different interpretations of our laws.

“ In your hands, my dissatisfied fellow-countrymen, and not in mine, is the momentous issue of civil war. The Government will not assail you. You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. You have no oath registered in heaven to destroy the Government, while I shall have the most solemn one to "preserve, protect, and defend it."

Abraham Lincoln's first inaugural speech.
Seems fitting.

You mean the person who trashed the constitution, put the feds above the states, cared little about individual freedom or slavery, acted like a dictator killing hundreds of thousands and instituting the plague of nationalism? That Lincoln?

Plus you are missing the point of the 2A it wasn't about foreign invasion as much as a check on our own federation.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

In Virginia, I don't worry very much about our state and local police or sheriff's departments. But I would be concerned about the "alphabet soup" federal agencies. However, they could have some problems because there are not enough of them and they are not likely to get much help from local agencies in a lot of states. I would think that if the executive branch was going to do something dramatic, they would try to use the military and the national guard as their first choices. But heck, I'll be the first to admit I know little about this subject area compared to a lot of folks on these forums.

You're lucky in Virginia then. So much of my state has been infiltrated by federal funds to the local PD's and the Sheriffs. I can barely drive a mile on a country road without seeing some sort of armed government agent.

 

[MSG Laigaie]

"We cannot invade America, there would be a gun behind every blade of grass."



I. Not if they confiscate them first.
2. I have been a guerrilla fighter before, I can do it again.

 

[eye95]

"We cannot invade America, there would be a gun behind every blade of grass."



I. Not if they confiscate them first.
2. I have been a guerrilla fighter before, I can do it again.

Hey! No fighting gorillas here!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

 

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Here's my take on 2A.

The first clause is the source of confusion.

My definitions:

well regulated=controlled
militia=unorganized group of fighting men
unorganized=no central control

So we REALLY need a bunch of people running around with guns to keep the nation free. I'm good with that. Guerilla tactics work.

How do we "control" a bunch of people running around with guns?

EVERYONE ELSE is allowed to have guns, too!

Wayne LaPierre was simply paraphrasing the 2nd Amendment when he said "The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

 

[MSG Laigaie]

These people think that all the "militias" in my State are terrorists. I signed up on their site just to keep track of them and got this in email. This is what it is about

LIVE STREAM
Under Secretary Sonenshine: Public Diplomacy and Countering Violent Extremism
START and the University of Maryland will live stream the remarks on "Public Diplomacy and Countering Violent Extremism" by U.S. Department of State Under Secretary Tara Sonenshine. At 11 a.m., you can watch and listen to the remarks at www.livestream.com/stamptv. Once the event has ended the live stream video will be archived at this URL for a week and then will move to the University's Youtube channel to be archived.

The event is being held on campus at Stamp Student Union in the Atrium, Rm. 1107.

More information on the event can be found on START's site at http://start.umd.edu/start/events/event.asp?id=243.

http://umd.us4.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=3c556bfbd74cfa45624dbc65f&id=8be670fe63&e=c72b951845 This is where you can find them. Think again about "labeling" yourself as "militia"

 

[OC for ME]

When the Southern Poverty Law Center has got you on their radar.....watch your back.

 

[Gil223]

These people think that all the "militias" in my State are terrorists. I signed up on their site just to keep track of them and got this in email. This is what it is about

LIVE STREAM
Under Secretary Sonenshine: Public Diplomacy and Countering Violent Extremism
START and the University of Maryland will live stream the remarks on "Public Diplomacy and Countering Violent Extremism" by U.S. Department of State Under Secretary Tara Sonenshine. At 11 a.m., you can watch and listen to the remarks at www.livestream.com/stamptv. Once the event has ended the live stream video will be archived at this URL for a week and then will move to the University's Youtube channel to be archived.

The event is being held on campus at Stamp Student Union in the Atrium, Rm. 1107.

More information on the event can be found on START's site at http://start.umd.edu/start/events/event.asp?id=243.

http://umd.us4.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=3c556bfbd74cfa45624dbc65f&id=8be670fe63&e=c72b951845 This is where you can find them. Think again about "labeling" yourself as "militia"

The link keeps going "OFFLINE" for some reason... maybe they don't want anybody outside the world of academia to know what they're supporting. :uhoh: Pax...

 

[SouthernBoy]

You're lucky in Virginia then. So much of my state has been infiltrated by federal funds to the local PD's and the Sheriffs. I can barely drive a mile on a country road without seeing some sort of armed government agent.

Really? And that's in Washington state? Wow, I've never seen anything like that here.

 

[SouthernBoy]

Here's my take on 2A.

The first clause is the source of confusion.

My definitions:

well regulated=controlled
militia=unorganized group of fighting men
unorganized=no central control

So we REALLY need a bunch of people running around with guns to keep the nation free. I'm good with that. Guerilla tactics work.

How do we "control" a bunch of people running around with guns?

EVERYONE ELSE is allowed to have guns, too!

Wayne LaPierre was simply paraphrasing the 2nd Amendment when he said "The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

"Well regulated" as written then meant, "to keep and make regular".

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Really? And that's in Washington state? Wow, I've never seen anything like that here.

Part of it I think is the federal founds being a "border" state, and the huge increase of Federal agents I see in this state.

They have a very elitist attitude of their position in our society too.

"Well regulated" as written then meant, "to keep and make regular".

+1

The second part of the sentence, to me, tells me the best way to make the first part happen, to have a free and a secure state, was not to infringe upon our already fundamental right to bear arms.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

"... The first clause is the source of confusion.
My definitions:
well regulated=controlled..."

"Well regulated" as written then meant, "to keep and make regular".

That was indeed one of the meanings at the time, to be made regular, or in other words to be made uniform. And one of the meanings of uniform is to be 'made the same' as in trained the same, using the same tactics, responding to the same commands, calls and signals.

We have an old antique grandfather clock with "REGULATED MOVEMENT" emblazoned across the face. I'm fairly sure it's used as a selling point to mark its accuracy rather than a warning that it has a government controlled movement.

Other clocks boasting of regulated movements - -

 

[skidmark]

Really? And that's in Washington state? Wow, I've never seen anything like that here.

SB, prepare to have your rose-colored glasses stripped off.

Almost every LEA employee wearing a badge and authorized to carry a handgun has been armed by the feds. Starting with the Bryne grant, and then goin on to multitudes of other lesser and lesser-known grants as well as outright transfers from DoJ/other federal agencies to LEAs.

For the record, I am not upset about any of this, and in some cases appreciate the fact that transfers of assetts means I am not getting dinged again for the cost of these toys. And in the few cases where the feds charge for giving away their toys, at least the cost charged is well below MSRP - even lower than what the feds originally paid for them.

But if you want to move the discussioon to the militarization of LEAs, as opposed to merely outfitting them at bargain rates --.

stay safe.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

This topic is important to me. It really strikes a nerve to see some of the misinformation in this thread, but it looks like others have already made necessary corrections

As has already been brought to light, at least some states define for themselves use of terms such as militia, organized militia, etc. I recently tried to get myself acquainted with how Texas defines these terms.
Unfortunately we have this section, which would seem to prohibit the activity described in the original post:

Sec. 431.010. ORGANIZATION PROHIBITED. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), a body of persons other than the regularly organized state military forces or the troops of the United States may not associate as a military company or organization or parade in public with firearms in a municipality of the state.

(b) With the consent of the governor, students in an educational institution at which military science is a prescribed part of the course of instruction and soldiers honorably discharged from the service of the United States may drill and parade with firearms in public.

(c) This section does not prevent a parade by the active militia of another state as provided by law.

In the defintions section, it doesn't really define "regularly organized state military forces", but it does define State militia as including anyone liable to serve in the state military forces

Sec. 431.001. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Reserve militia" means the persons liable to serve, but not serving, in the state military forces.

(1-a) "Servicemember" has the meaning assigned by Section 161.551, Health and Safety Code.

(2) "State militia " means the state military forces and the reserve militia.

(3) "State military forces" means the Texas National Guard, the Texas State Guard, and any other active militia or military force organized under state law.

(4) "Texas National Guard" means the Texas Army National Guard and the Texas Air National Guard.

(5) "Employee" has the meaning assigned by Section 21.002, Labor Code.

(6) "Employer" has the meaning assigned by Section 21.002, Labor Code.

(7) "Political subdivision" has the meaning assigned by Section 21.002, Labor Code.

Not sure if "persons liable to serve" is explicitly defined anywhere either, but there is this section which defines "persons subject to military duty"

Sec. 431.081. PERSONS SUBJECT TO MILITARY DUTY; PERSONS NOT ELIGIBLE TO ENLIST. (a) A person is subject to military duty if the person is:

(1) able-bodied;

(2) a citizen or a person of foreign birth who has declared an intent to become a citizen;

(3) a resident of the state;

(4) at least 18 and not more than 60 years of age; and

(5) not exempt under Subsection (b) or (c) or United States law.

(b) A person is exempt from military duty, except in case of war, insurrection, invasion, or imminent danger of war, insurrection, or invasion if the person is:

(1) the lieutenant governor;

(2) a member or officer of the legislature;

(3) a judge or clerk of a court of record;

(4) a head of a state agency;

(5) a sheriff, district attorney, county attorney, county tax assessor-collector, or county commissioner;

(6) a mayor, council member, alderman, or assessor and collector of a municipality;

(7) an officer or employee of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, a state hospital or special school, a public or private hospital, or a nursing home;

(8) a member of a regularly organized and paid fire or police department in a municipality, except that a person is not relieved of military duty by joining such a department;

(9) a minister of the gospel exclusively engaged in that calling; or

(10) a person who conscientiously scruples against bearing arms.

(c) A mentally disabled person, vagabond, confirmed alcoholic, narcotics addict, or a person convicted of an infamous crime is exempt from military duty regardless of circumstances.

(d) A minor may not enlist without the written consent of the minor's parents or guardian.

(e) A person expelled or dishonorably discharged from state or United States military service is not eligible for enlistment or reenlistment unless the person submits written consent to enlistment from the commanding officer of the organization from which the person was expelled or dishonorably discharged and from the commanding officer who approved the expulsion or issued the dishonorable discharge.

This part makes me lol: (10) a person who conscientiously scruples against bearing arms.