golddigger14s
Activist Member
They had guys waving signs that everything was 50% off, but it was mostly 25% off. Some items were regular price. The only things 50% off were $2000 treadmills. Waste of time.
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South Sound OC Report........
- Thread starter gogodawgs
- Start date
They had guys waving signs that everything was 50% off, but it was mostly 25% off. Some items were regular price. The only things 50% off were $2000 treadmills. Waste of time.
thanks for the prompt response golddigger...wondered about their closeout sales...any ammo/firearm deals or did they send those back to their distributors? (or buds)
ipse
golddigger14s
Activist Member
At least at the Lacey store they had no ammo I wanted.
Schlepnier
Regular Member
well I don't know where to begin but to say I had an interesting, sometimes frustrating and entertaining day.
I went into work at my volunteer job.
apparently the previous week a customer called 911 because one of our regular customers had his shirt ride up a bit exposing his firearm(store policy is conceal carry, long story but that's for another post) well apparently during the week one of lakewoods finest stopped by to check on the stores policies and in their discussion the officer informed the manager of legal advice-even though he admitted he was not a lawyer-namely just in case something ever happens the store should have our(regular armed customers) personal info and CPL info on file.
We had a short discussion with said manager explaining private property rights as they apply to the carry of firearms informing him we were not going to be providing any information for records, which he was fine with.
As it so happens in our discussions another customer joined in our conversation, turns out he is a retired former LEO from southern California who now works for private legal services training police agencies on firearms laws and responsibilities.
While he often split hairs on legal definitions (even though the Orlando nightclub that was the target of the terror attacks does not allow firearms inside, with searches and metal detectors he does not consider it a gun free zone since the security staff is allowed to be armed for example)
This is where things got interesting. our conversation probably lasted a good 2 hours and while we discussed gaming and history and politics the gun/legal aspect is what I am focusing on here.
He broke LEOs down into 3 groups admitting they are all incredibly lazy.
the first group-
Usually about 30% of the force, mostly newer officers, are the positive, change the world crusaders who are like big friendly dogs that are just trying to help
The second-
The 50% mid career officers trying to do enough to get their jobs done and go home while doing as little paperwork as possible.
The third_
20% power tripping jerks with a badge, not above doing whatever it takes to "win" including lying on official reports and planting evidence(he put lakewoods entire department in the third category he had a very poor opinion of the entire dept)
Of the points we discussed was OC encounters and responses to a call for service. while we agreed in principle on many points he was more of a "go along to get along" officer. pointing out things he trains officers for-like demanding a CPL at any time and you being legally required to provide it
I pointed out that the problem with the wording in the law that we discussed here at length about the "When required by law to do so" part of the wording of the RCW
Additionally he pointed out that while he knows OCers are not criminals, because criminals don't OC, if you are armed for "officer safety" he can forcibly disarm you even in a consensual conversation and does not have to answer why he wants to talk to you until after officer safety is dealt with. and requesting a reason for the contact or asking if you are free to leave ups the officer confrontation level as per his training.
Additionally even though he admits you cannot be stopped simply for carrying (Dberry V US) if he receives a call for service (somebody claims you did something to 911) he has to take it as a fact you did it unless it comes from a 3rd party. while he additionally agreed often contact is not necessary and all you need to do is observe to see if a crime is being committed they often times will still contact you. including demanding an ID check for prohibited persons even though he admitted that under the law your natural state is not a felon.
He additionally pointed out that while it is good to know the law most officers will get angry with you if you make their job harder(IE more paperwork) simply by expecting them to follow the law when you remind them of it. even though they are only required to have a rough understanding of the statutes to do their job.
I was quite annoyed by his willingness to step all over protections granted to the citizens simply for the sake of LEO attitudes to avoid un-necessary extra work.
This is the sort of bias a trainer is teaching officers is a bit disappointing considering this is the prevalent attitudes we have to deal with simply to exercise our rights.
I went into work at my volunteer job.
apparently the previous week a customer called 911 because one of our regular customers had his shirt ride up a bit exposing his firearm(store policy is conceal carry, long story but that's for another post) well apparently during the week one of lakewoods finest stopped by to check on the stores policies and in their discussion the officer informed the manager of legal advice-even though he admitted he was not a lawyer-namely just in case something ever happens the store should have our(regular armed customers) personal info and CPL info on file.
We had a short discussion with said manager explaining private property rights as they apply to the carry of firearms informing him we were not going to be providing any information for records, which he was fine with.
As it so happens in our discussions another customer joined in our conversation, turns out he is a retired former LEO from southern California who now works for private legal services training police agencies on firearms laws and responsibilities.
While he often split hairs on legal definitions (even though the Orlando nightclub that was the target of the terror attacks does not allow firearms inside, with searches and metal detectors he does not consider it a gun free zone since the security staff is allowed to be armed for example)
This is where things got interesting. our conversation probably lasted a good 2 hours and while we discussed gaming and history and politics the gun/legal aspect is what I am focusing on here.
He broke LEOs down into 3 groups admitting they are all incredibly lazy.
the first group-
Usually about 30% of the force, mostly newer officers, are the positive, change the world crusaders who are like big friendly dogs that are just trying to help
The second-
The 50% mid career officers trying to do enough to get their jobs done and go home while doing as little paperwork as possible.
The third_
20% power tripping jerks with a badge, not above doing whatever it takes to "win" including lying on official reports and planting evidence(he put lakewoods entire department in the third category he had a very poor opinion of the entire dept)
Of the points we discussed was OC encounters and responses to a call for service. while we agreed in principle on many points he was more of a "go along to get along" officer. pointing out things he trains officers for-like demanding a CPL at any time and you being legally required to provide it
I pointed out that the problem with the wording in the law that we discussed here at length about the "When required by law to do so" part of the wording of the RCW
Additionally he pointed out that while he knows OCers are not criminals, because criminals don't OC, if you are armed for "officer safety" he can forcibly disarm you even in a consensual conversation and does not have to answer why he wants to talk to you until after officer safety is dealt with. and requesting a reason for the contact or asking if you are free to leave ups the officer confrontation level as per his training.
Additionally even though he admits you cannot be stopped simply for carrying (Dberry V US) if he receives a call for service (somebody claims you did something to 911) he has to take it as a fact you did it unless it comes from a 3rd party. while he additionally agreed often contact is not necessary and all you need to do is observe to see if a crime is being committed they often times will still contact you. including demanding an ID check for prohibited persons even though he admitted that under the law your natural state is not a felon.
He additionally pointed out that while it is good to know the law most officers will get angry with you if you make their job harder(IE more paperwork) simply by expecting them to follow the law when you remind them of it. even though they are only required to have a rough understanding of the statutes to do their job.
I was quite annoyed by his willingness to step all over protections granted to the citizens simply for the sake of LEO attitudes to avoid un-necessary extra work.
This is the sort of bias a trainer is teaching officers is a bit disappointing considering this is the prevalent attitudes we have to deal with simply to exercise our rights.
Ajetpilot
Regular Member
Wow. Just wow. I thought we had made so much progress over the years, but I guess I was wrong. 
:banghead: :cuss:
:banghead: :cuss:first...has a complaint been made to the Lakewood PD's chief & Internal Affairs dept about the officer who is providing legal advice to the community? suppose you or others had not been privy to hearing the conversation and the boss implemented the nice LE's guidance...or you are no longer 'volunteering' there'!!
second...of course this customer is a retired...whatever, working quote ...for private legal services training police agencies on firearms laws and responsibilities. unquote. oh wait i know he showed his badge, and retired credentials as well as gave you a business card stating what he did now that he is retired...
You know of course, Color of Law is a retired supreme court justice, MSG Laigaie & his merry band of cohorts in N WA are all retired AGENCY spooks...Grapeshot isn't retired and still head of infamous & nefarious specter...ya of course they are.
that your took this individual's rhetoric at face value is quite humorous...a) being from S CA he doesn't advocate firearms. b) allegedly being retired LE he doesn't know the law. c) combine a & b and you have someone trying to make a buck stating he understands these subjects and other nice LE departments get sucked into bad info...
as PT is credited to saying but didn't...'there's a sucker born every minute'
ipse
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MSG Laigaie
Campaign Veteran
Wow. Just wow. I thought we had made so much progress over the years, but I guess I was wrong.
seems to be an "us against them" kind of guy. A calif transplant at that.
Schlepnier
Regular Member
and a Bernie sanders supporter...at least he thinks that Hillary should be in jail for her "alleged" crimes
Try being a bit more constructive in your posts instead of attacking members for accountings of experiences in the forum meant for such purposes.
Actually it was a spirited debate, nothing was taken for granted and also he was quite well informed on the law. we disagreed quite often on it's implementation and meaning. I am just giving you his positions on some of the subject matter.
Try being a bit more constructive in your posts instead of attacking members for accountings of experiences in the forum meant for such purposes.
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gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Down at Kent Station today to provide my signature to put Gary Johnson on Washington's presidential ballot (1000 needed). Found the signature gatherer's and they informed me that the Kent Station management kicked them off the property because they didn't have permission.
I wandered around Kent station with the beautiful Rene for 45 minutes or so enjoying the sun.
I wandered around Kent station with the beautiful Rene for 45 minutes or so enjoying the sun.
that was constructive schlepnier, additionally you are free to believe as you will, but rest assured, it was no where near attacking...
i also gave you a spirited position on the subject matter you previously posted and to reiterate, please take nothing for granted from my post as i am also quite well informed...
further, i missed the portion of your post where you stated spirited or debate or but noticed you did contradict yourself in this post after initially saying you were quite annoyed by his willingness to step all over protections and or mentioned quote sort of bias unquote or bit disappointing as you now state he was quite informed in the law...
you can't have it both ways
ipse
Went to Taste of Tacoma on St. With family. Wearing Trump shirt. Plenty of police not one cared. 3 different people noticed first two just snickered. 1 guy said" he's strapped "and " thats scary". Special snowflakes all of them.
Leaving there was a booth for petition gatherers.They had a sign that said protect the elderly. Guy working said hes for the other guy. I said if you want to help the elderly, get rid of Obamacare. Three young black girls were walking by started bitching about white people.
Maybe if people in California could OC they wouldn't have been attacked.
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
Leaving there was a booth for petition gatherers.They had a sign that said protect the elderly. Guy working said hes for the other guy. I said if you want to help the elderly, get rid of Obamacare. Three young black girls were walking by started bitching about white people.
Maybe if people in California could OC they wouldn't have been attacked.
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
He sounds like the typical "retired" idiot with a badge.
I have ran into few of them and they tend to know the LEAST about the law.
amlevin
Regular Member
Considering that in WA State one needs a CPL to legally OC while driving their vehicle they are definitely relevant on this section. Also need to have a CPL to OC in some public venues where the law requires them for ANY form of firearm carry..
amlevin
Regular Member
Actually, my wife and I fall in that category and the changes mandated in insurance policies by "Obamacare" have greatly benefited my wife (who is undergoing tratment for what is now Stage IV Metastatic Cancer. Little things like "max out of pocket expense" etc, really are a benefit when you are looking at total "bills" for surgery from the hospital that start out over $100k (before insurance deals with it) and Chemo sessions that run over $3,000 per (every two weeks).
To make this post relevant, I'm posting while Open Carrying
FWIW, I even carried while at my wife's side in the hospital. Believe it or not, there ways to OC that aren't all that noticeable
amlevin
Regular Member
Who is perpetuating his ignorance by teaching/consulting. Isn't that the way it is in every "field".
I find it interesting the number of young "retiree's" from law enforcement. In my experience the ones that really did a good job and were cut out for that career remain in the field until they hit Social Security retirement age. They work on cold cases, handle evidence tasks, even move into "forensics".
The "hotshots" that have no future in law enforcement, and can't find a decent job after "taking their 20", usually end up "in security" or driving a truck.
The journey on that long road begins with a single step. Hang in there.Actually, my wife and I fall in that category and the changes mandated in insurance policies by "Obamacare" have greatly benefited my wife (who is undergoing tratment for what is now Stage IV Metastatic Cancer. Little things like "max out of pocket expense" etc, really are a benefit when you are looking at total "bills" for surgery from the hospital that start out over $100k (before insurance deals with it) and Chemo sessions that run over $3,000 per (every two weeks).
To make this post relevant, I'm posting while Open Carrying
FWIW, I even carried while at my wife's side in the hospital. Believe it or not, there ways to OC that aren't all that noticeable
Best wishes to you both. Maybe i should have said get rid of Obamacare and replace it with a better law. Seems like a lot to say for a shout out. [emoji108]Actually, my wife and I fall in that category and the changes mandated in insurance policies by "Obamacare" have greatly benefited my wife (who is undergoing tratment for what is now Stage IV Metastatic Cancer. Little things like "max out of pocket expense" etc, really are a benefit when you are looking at total "bills" for surgery from the hospital that start out over $100k (before insurance deals with it) and Chemo sessions that run over $3,000 per (every two weeks).
To make this post relevant, I'm posting while Open Carrying
FWIW, I even carried while at my wife's side in the hospital. Believe it or not, there ways to OC that aren't all that noticeable
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
grylnsmn
Regular Member
I OC'd around Point Defiance Zoo on the 4th. No issues whatsoever.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Yesterday we had some business to do in Auburn. Had a tenant on one of the properties that applied for a business license and was rejected by the city. The land is zoned RC and thus cant go more than 180 days without a business on it (it has not) and must be equal too or less intense than the business Rene had on it for 25 years. (grandfathered in....RC is Residential Conservancy).
So we called and set up a meeting with the planner and the licensing agent for the city. We had her tenant (a general contractor/landscaper) and us meet at the city planning office on Main St.
I carried the entire time....no one said a word.
Situation resolved, business license granted.
So we called and set up a meeting with the planner and the licensing agent for the city. We had her tenant (a general contractor/landscaper) and us meet at the city planning office on Main St.
I carried the entire time....no one said a word.
Situation resolved, business license granted.