Remember, they disarm you for "Officer Safety".

[sudden valley gunner]

Well Said Rob, very well done. You provided cite's and real life instances that people on this board know about.

Thanks Nick! Reminds me I want to run something by you next time we meet.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Tax money is better than getting a financial incentive to do illegal activity -- which is what police have right now.

I.e. invent cause for stops and warrants to they can seize and sell property (sometimes before a person is convicted) and keep all the proceeds. Thanks WoD.

At least with regular tax money they have to use the same tricks that the parks department, or the transportation department has to use to get extra tax money. It's a lot safer for everyone involved.

Excellent post VG.

Thanks Dave I caught a few misspellings and grammar problems but hey it was early and I was ranting. We could spend many many bytes typing out the unconstitutional seizing of property. This is also wrong because we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, and it also in many cases insures that the "accused" cannot afford a decent attorney to fight the charges brought against him.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Thanks Dave I caught a few misspellings and grammar problems but hey it was early and I was ranting. We could spend many many bytes typing out the unconstitutional seizing of property. This is also wrong because we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, and it also in many cases insures that the "accused" cannot afford a decent attorney to fight the charges brought against him.

But ya know, when they gov can simply confiscate without a trial (keep and use) your cash -- for the sole reason that you HAVE cash, then we know it's an absolute lost cause. Nero has played, the empire has fallen. Government in it's current form, does not work.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

But ya know, when they gov can simply confiscate without a trial (keep and use) your cash -- for the sole reason that you HAVE cash, then we know it's an absolute lost cause. Nero has played, the empire has fallen. Government in it's current form, does not work.

Yep! There are many cases where peoples cash was considered suspicious enough for arrest and confiscation and when found not guilty (when they allow a trial) they often don't get their cash back. I like cash ( would like it more if it was based on real asset like gold or silver), sometimes especially in the past when work was better I carried or had large amounts on me. But in the mindset of those who are proactively looking to get somebody on something, that is suspicious behavior.

There was a recent example someone was prosecuted for not breaking IRS withdraw cap. :banghead:

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Yep! There are many cases where peoples cash was considered suspicious enough for arrest and confiscation and when found not guilty (when they allow a trial) they often don't get their cash back. I like cash ( would like it more if it was based on real asset like gold or silver), sometimes especially in the past when work was better I carried or had large amounts on me. But in the mindset of those who are proactively looking to get somebody on something, that is suspicious behavior.

There was a recent example someone was prosecuted for not breaking IRS withdraw cap. :banghead:

The powers that be now have their wish... you're guilty even if you didn't do anything. Break the withdrawal 'cap' and get reported, don't break it and get arrested for structuring.

Every man and woman in America better come to grips that it could be them serving 2-10 years, even if they are innocent as a newborn baby.

BTW, buy a car with cash at a dealer = get reported.

Sure starting to seem the good old U.S.A. = U.S.S.R.

 

[amzbrady]

The powers that be now have their wish... you're guilty even if you didn't do anything. Break the withdrawal 'cap' and get reported, don't break it and get arrested for structuring.

Every man and woman in America better come to grips that it could be them serving 2-10 years, even if they are innocent as a newborn baby.

BTW, buy a car with cash at a dealer = get reported.

Sure starting to seem the good old U.S.A. = U.S.S.R.

We will become Chinexico. Owned by China and ran by Mexicans.

 

[amlevin]

We will become Chinexico. Owned by China and ran by Mexicans.

Don't forget that organized crime will be taken over from the Italians and Sicilians (Mafia) and run by the Russians.

Oh Wait! They've already done that!

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Don't forget that organized crime will be taken over from the Italians and Sicilians (Mafia) and run by the Russians.

Oh Wait! They've already done that!

To a large degree mafia and gangs are a consequence of government (a direct and intentional consequence imho) -- they are simply an underground economy that fulfills demand and often resorts to violence. They also bolster the largest employment sectors in America: cops, prisons, health care and the legal system (again, by design).

I would pay to see a cage fight between MS13 and the Russian mob though. I'd also pay to see a cage fight between MS13 or the russian mob against a bunch of CCOs or paramilitary assault team (SWAT). Bound to be an interesting event. Hey Dana White, make that happen

 

[Metalhead47]

To a large degree mafia and gangs are a consequence of government (a direct and intentional consequence imho) -- they are simply an underground economy that fulfills demand and often resorts to violence. They also bolster the largest employment sectors in America: cops, prisons, health care and the legal system (again, by design).

I think you give the government entirely too much credit for competency.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

I think you give the government entirely too much credit for competency.

They made Al Capone, and then they unmade him. It was actually very easy, and I have to believe they learned valuable lessons from that experience.

Then they learned valuable lessons from the WoD, and thus we have the WoT and the TSA fondling crotchal areas, imprisonment with no trial or access to lawyers, warrentless searches and sneak & peek searches without notification.

Unwinnable 'wars' are an anti-civil rights gold mine for the government, both Republicans and Democrats know it and embrace it -- which is why they both vote for the eame anti-freedom legislation. Obama is on year 4, and we received a renewed Patriot Act and Gitmo running at full speed. Obama = Bush = Obama = Bush. The next guy will equal both of them too. Remember, Bush started the bail outs, Obama just finished them. Same action, difference of degree. Thank Regan for his contribution to gun control. Both parties push us in the same direction at different speeds.

Yes the government is generally incompetent, doesn't mean it lacks the ability to intentionally take unconstitutional actions and orchestrate a deliberate long term plan.

 

[Metalhead47]

They made Al Capone, and then they unmade him. It was actually very easy, and I have to believe they learned valuable lessons from that experience.

Then they learned valuable lessons from the WoD, and thus we have the WoT and the TSA fondling crotchal areas, imprisonment with no trial or access to lawyers, warrentless searches and sneak & peek searches without notification.

Unwinnable 'wars' are an anti-civil rights gold mine for the government, both Republicans and Democrats know it and embrace it -- which is why they both vote for the eame anti-freedom legislation. Obama is on year 4, and we received a renewed Patriot Act and Gitmo running at full speed. Obama = Bush = Obama = Bush. The next guy will equal both of them too.

Yes the government is generally incompetent, doesn't mean it lacks the ability to intentionally take unconstitutional actions and orchestrate a deliberate long term plan.

You're waltzing awfully close to conspiracy theory territory there bro. I certainly don't deny that the gov't created Al Capone and his modern equivalents, but to say that it did so be design, well...

I simply don't believe a government made up of a bunch of politicians that are only out for themselves is that competent. The problem with conspiracy theories is they crumble the minute a single individual in the supposed conspiracy realizes he can bugger the whole thing for his own personal gain.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

You're waltzing awfully close to conspiracy theory territory there bro. I certainly don't deny that the gov't created Al Capone and his modern equivalents, but to say that it did so be design, well...

I simply don't believe a government made up of a bunch of politicians that are only out for themselves is that competent. The problem with conspiracy theories is they crumble the minute a single individual in the supposed conspiracy realizes he can bugger the whole thing for his own personal gain.

::shrug:: you might be right.

Just because it looks like intelligent design does not mean it actually is the result of intelligent design.

It is undeniable that the government is engaged in social engineering, and job market manipulation. If you can concede that point, then a lot of possibilities open up.

 

[Metalhead47]

::shrug:: you might be right.

Just because it looks like intelligent design does not mean it actually is the result of intelligent design.

It is undeniable that the government is engaged in social engineering, and job market manipulation. If you can concede that point, then a lot of possibilities open up.

Oh I certainly agree they are so engaged. And they have failed at it so miserably that it would be comical if it weren't true. Everywhere I look at the government, I see fail, from the highest office to the lowest janitor. Now an organization like that can certainly do a lot of damage, along with all sorts of negative consequences with self-fulfilling feedback cycles. But to think it's all being expertly orchestrated according to some nefarious design? Sorry, that's where you loose me.

A supreme, omniscient, and perfect being intelligently designing creation... that ​ I can believe. Selfish, imperfect beings like us all working together for some higher goal... whether it's the intelligentsia or utopia, I just don't buy it. Conspiracy theories don't work because humans are far too petty.