Peninsula Town Center stickers

[45acpForMe]

Page one has loads of pictures of doorways to businesses that I would never shop at anyways, regardless of a "no guns" sign.

So what? Are you only interested in places going anti that affect you? My daughters and I only shopped at about half of those stores but it is disconcerting to see the trend towards anti!!!

Those pictures were taken during a walk down one of the streets so it is less than half the stores in the PTC. The other half also have the same stickers at about the same frequency.

 

[LRS76251]

Check out their Community Standards...this needs to be fixed since they are preempted

http://www.peninsulatowncenter.com/Information/GuestInformation/CommunityStandards.aspx

We all want to live, work and play in a clean, safe environment. For that to happen, we need to cooperate to maintain our buildings, parking areas, streets and parks and promote an environment that is enjoyable and hospitable for everyone, including guests and employees. For that reason, we at PTC, with the endorsement of our Citizens Advisory Committee and the Hampton Youth Commission, have established the following Community Standards and ask that you follow them.

Be Courteous to Others
Rude behavior, or conduct that is ill-mannered or disrespectful, is not acceptable. Examples include:

Standing, walking or sitting which may cause an inconvenience to others. This includes blocking a walkway, stairway, doorway or storefront.
Loitering, which is defined as inactivity, blocking access, hindering movement and/or failure to move to a dining, entertainment or retail venue. This also includes loitering in vehicles.
Smoking in the parks.
Cruising, loud car or truck stereos.
Maintain Proper Decorum
Do not engage in behavior that can be described as obscene, offensive and/or may disturb others or interrupt normal business activity. Examples include:

Running, yelling, skating, skateboarding, rollerblading, playing of radios or littering.
Possessing any open container of alcohol or consuming alcohol anywhere except in businesses licensed to sell adult beverages or at official PTC events.
The use of offensive language such as swear words or racial slurs as well as inappropriate hand gestures, including but not restricted to gang signs or symbols, loud or boisterous behavior, or throwing of objects.
Inappropriate attire. No offensive message or picture may be displayed on clothing.
Unauthorized photography/videography on PTC property.
Soliciting, including the exchange of personal information, picketing, literature distribution or panhandling.
Failure to respond to a reasonable request or direction from PTC staff.
Refusal to present appropriate photo ID with proof of age if requested by security or other PTC staff.
Animals that are not in the company of and trained to assist physically challenged persons.
Weapons of any kind.
Be Legally Mindful
Disruptive behavior of a more serious nature, such as fighting, shoplifting or theft of personal property, which could disturb business activity or impair the safety of our guests, is prohibited.

Peninsula Town Center Parental Escort Policy states that children under the age of 16 may not be on PTC property after 9:00 pm unless supervised by an adult over the age of 21. All persons under the age of 18 are expected to be in school during school hours.

Violators of these codes may be subject to expulsion, banning, and/or arrest. Violators of banning orders may be subject to arrest or prosecution for criminal trespass. This list is not all inclusive and may be modified at any time by the management of this shopping center. These PTC Community Standards are not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the shopping center Security Department @ 757/838-7703.



I'm not sure if their Community Standards are outdated, however, if the PTC itself falls under preemption, this needs to be brought to their attention ASAP.

 

[TFred]

http://www.peninsulatowncenter.com/Information/GuestInformation/CommunityStandards.aspx

We all want to live, work and play in a clean, safe environment. For that to happen, we need to cooperate to maintain our buildings, parking areas, streets and parks and promote an environment that is enjoyable and hospitable for everyone, including guests and employees. For that reason, we at PTC, with the endorsement of our Citizens Advisory Committee and the Hampton Youth Commission, have established the following Community Standards and ask that you follow them.

Be Courteous to Others
Rude behavior, or conduct that is ill-mannered or disrespectful, is not acceptable. Examples include:

Standing, walking or sitting which may cause an inconvenience to others. This includes blocking a walkway, stairway, doorway or storefront.
Loitering, which is defined as inactivity, blocking access, hindering movement and/or failure to move to a dining, entertainment or retail venue. This also includes loitering in vehicles.
Smoking in the parks.
Cruising, loud car or truck stereos.
Maintain Proper Decorum
Do not engage in behavior that can be described as obscene, offensive and/or may disturb others or interrupt normal business activity. Examples include:

Running, yelling, skating, skateboarding, rollerblading, playing of radios or littering.
Possessing any open container of alcohol or consuming alcohol anywhere except in businesses licensed to sell adult beverages or at official PTC events.
The use of offensive language such as swear words or racial slurs as well as inappropriate hand gestures, including but not restricted to gang signs or symbols, loud or boisterous behavior, or throwing of objects.
Inappropriate attire. No offensive message or picture may be displayed on clothing.
Unauthorized photography/videography on PTC property.
Soliciting, including the exchange of personal information, picketing, literature distribution or panhandling.
Failure to respond to a reasonable request or direction from PTC staff.
Refusal to present appropriate photo ID with proof of age if requested by security or other PTC staff.
Animals that are not in the company of and trained to assist physically challenged persons.
Weapons of any kind.
Be Legally Mindful
Disruptive behavior of a more serious nature, such as fighting, shoplifting or theft of personal property, which could disturb business activity or impair the safety of our guests, is prohibited.

Peninsula Town Center Parental Escort Policy states that children under the age of 16 may not be on PTC property after 9:00 pm unless supervised by an adult over the age of 21. All persons under the age of 18 are expected to be in school during school hours.

Violators of these codes may be subject to expulsion, banning, and/or arrest. Violators of banning orders may be subject to arrest or prosecution for criminal trespass. This list is not all inclusive and may be modified at any time by the management of this shopping center. These PTC Community Standards are not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the shopping center Security Department @ 757/838-7703.



I'm not sure if their Community Standards are outdated, however, if the PTC itself falls under preemption, this needs to be brought to their attention ASAP.

And how ironic... notice the NEXT "command"... I guess it's "do what I say, not what I do... as I violate the Code of Virginia - in writing!"

TFred

 

[45acpForMe]

I believe a few years ago some members were approaced by security/police telling them they couldn't carry but they contacted the governing board and confirmed that they were covered by preemption so lawfully carried firearms aren't included in the "any weapons" statement. At least it is not enforced since I have OC-ed there several times past security and police with no issues.

 

[mpg9999]

The only good news is Chipotle had no such sticker. Macy's, JC Penney, Pink also were good without stickers.

Bad news. I went to Chipotle tonight and noticed they now have a sticker too (It's on the bottom of the door). Any updates on this?

 

[mpg9999]

According to this thread Chipotle has a corporate policy against the gun buster signs: http://www.arizonashooting.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=168853&start=30


"Thanks for writing to us. We had been considering this policy for a while and we decided to remove these signs from all our restaurants. Of course, we will still follow all local laws regarding guns—and we will ask that our guests do the same—but we will not place any restrictions other than those required by local law.

Sincerely,
Shannon

Shannon Kyllo | Customer Service Manager
Chipotle Mexican Grill"

I think next time I'm there I'll have a conversation with the manager, unless someone else wants to beat me to it.

 

[TFred]

We really need to get proof of a public employee strong-arming these businesses into posting these stickers.

I have little doubt that is what's going on.

TFred

 

[mpg9999]

I spoke with someone at Chipotle tonight. I assume he was probably a shift manager or something. He seemed to be under the impression that it was the Peninsula Town Centers rule. I told him if that were the case all the businesses would have them, and it's up to the individual stores. I also told him I believed Chipotle has a corporate policy against posting no gun signs. He took down my name, number, and email address and is going to talk to the general manager about it for me. He didn't seem particularly for or against the sign. I'll update when I hear more.

 

[Glockster]

Couple of points to ponder....their standards are not rules. They do ask that they be followed, but I don't see anywhere it says in them that they are rules. I'm not trying to split a hair but this may go to what these stores seem to believe they are being told as the standards seem to try to seem as if they are authoritative. Second point is that I don't think that evidence of strong arming by a public employee is necessary - I get the whole preemption issue, but I think that perhaps another way to get their attention is with regard to malfeasance.

One of two things is likely happening -- either they are going around as a public employee doing something like this -- which if authorized by their supervisor means that their supervisor is authorizing this (contrary, almost certainly, to employee guidelines which certainly would prohibit this action as it isn't authorized by the City and there is the whole preemption issue, or, if not authorized by their supervisor means that they are doing something that violates employee guidelines); or the second being, that they are representing themselves as a public employee and using their position for undue influence for personal matters, which is certainly going to be prohibited by employee guidelines. And I also wonder about the nature of Citizens Advisory Committee and the Hampton Youth Commission -- are those official government committees and commissions? And if so, then who signed off on this? Again, seems like this is going to point to malfeasance.

With the above in mind, and the difficulty in tracking down (so far) who/what/why and all that, has anyone thought of submitting a FOIA request as suggested by Thundar last month? I'd think that you could ask for copies of any and all documents that have been distributed to the store owners by the City or any City employee; for any existing documents which directed any City employee to on the public payroll go talk to the stores; for any documents which authorized design, procurement or payment for the stickers; for employee time sheets which document the spending of time by a City employee to create, procure, pay for, discuss with the stores, to distribute the stickers, and on and on and on.

I would have to wonder what would happen if those FOIA requests were cc'd to the Commonwealth Attorney, and to the City Manager, and so on as it would seem that all of this is really good evidence of spending City money by someone without authorization and malfeasance.

 

[TFred]

payment for the stickers

That may be the best idea to date... if any of the store management will fess up to a mall management person providing the stickers for free.... that would seem to be a clear violation of preemption.

TFred

 

[Grapeshot]

§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.


A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

Indeed find the red hand from mall management and you got 'em where it hurts. You do record, right?

 

[Glockster]

§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.


A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

Indeed find the red hand from mall management and you got 'em where it hurts. You do record, right?

And I think that is where the malfeasance again kicks in -- an administrative action not authorized is what that is all about, as well.

 

[Grapeshot]

And I think that is where the malfeasance again kicks in -- an administrative action not authorized is what that is all about, as well.

IMHO - "Administrative action" would include encouraging tenates to put up No Guns signs, much less providing them. I would go so far as to say even Guns Welcome signs would be a violation as they are limited to only those expressly authorized by statute.

 

[Glockster]

IMHO - "Administrative action" would include encouraging tenates to put up No Guns signs, much less providing them. I would go so far as to say even Guns Welcome signs would be a violation as they are limited to only those expressly authorized by statute.

Exactly my point, along with who spent what money to pay for those stickers as they cannot justify them as a valid expense.

 

[mpg9999]

I spoke with someone at Chipotle tonight. I assume he was probably a shift manager or something. He seemed to be under the impression that it was the Peninsula Town Centers rule. I told him if that were the case all the businesses would have them, and it's up to the individual stores. I also told him I believed Chipotle has a corporate policy against posting no gun signs. He took down my name, number, and email address and is going to talk to the general manager about it for me. He didn't seem particularly for or against the sign. I'll update when I hear more.

I didn't hear back yet so I called today and spoke with the GM. He told me he had only been there two weeks so he didn't know when the signs went up. He said it's not a policy they set at the store level and he was unaware of corporate policy, and said I would need to contact them. I contacted Chipotle through their website just now with the following message:

"Hi, I am a regular customer at the Peninsula Town Center ( 3510 Von Schilling Dr, Hampton, VA ) Chipotle location. I was surprised and disappointed when I noticed a "no guns" sign posted on the door during a recent visit. It was my understanding that Chipotle had a policy of just following the local law, and not prohibiting law abiding citizens from carrying legal weapons. I spoke with the General Manager, George Kiesel, and he informed me that he was new and wasn't sure when the signs went up. What is Chipotles corporate policy, and if the sign is against corporate policy, would you be able to inform the store so they can have them removed? Thanks."

 

[TFred]

I didn't hear back yet so I called today and spoke with the GM. He told me he had only been there two weeks so he didn't know when the signs went up. He said it's not a policy they set at the store level and he was unaware of corporate policy, and said I would need to contact them. I contacted Chipotle through their website just now with the following message:

"Hi, I am a regular customer at the Peninsula Town Center ( 3510 Von Schilling Dr, Hampton, VA ) Chipotle location. I was surprised and disappointed when I noticed a "no guns" sign posted on the door during a recent visit. It was my understanding that Chipotle had a policy of just following the local law, and not prohibiting law abiding citizens from carrying legal weapons. I spoke with the General Manager, George Kiesel, and he informed me that he was new and wasn't sure when the signs went up. What is Chipotles corporate policy, and if the sign is against corporate policy, would you be able to inform the store so they can have them removed? Thanks."

Now if they come back with anything along the lines of "we were told...", that's pure gold! Make sure to find out who did the telling, if that is the case.

TFred

 

[Glockster]

I didn't hear back yet so I called today and spoke with the GM. He told me he had only been there two weeks so he didn't know when the signs went up. He said it's not a policy they set at the store level and he was unaware of corporate policy, and said I would need to contact them. I contacted Chipotle through their website just now with the following message:

"Hi, I am a regular customer at the Peninsula Town Center ( 3510 Von Schilling Dr, Hampton, VA ) Chipotle location. I was surprised and disappointed when I noticed a "no guns" sign posted on the door during a recent visit. It was my understanding that Chipotle had a policy of just following the local law, and not prohibiting law abiding citizens from carrying legal weapons. I spoke with the General Manager, George Kiesel, and he informed me that he was new and wasn't sure when the signs went up. What is Chipotles corporate policy, and if the sign is against corporate policy, would you be able to inform the store so they can have them removed? Thanks."

Disappointing though at how non-proactive the manager is. First he didn't bother to follow-up with a customer that called and left a message, and now he wants you to check with corporate because he apparently will not ask them to confirm that there is no policy and he's apparently okay with leaving a sign up that may be in violation of company policy and which is likely turning away customers.

But I do hope that it turns out okay. Still hope we get to see in the end who did what.

 

[TFred]

Disappointing though at how non-proactive the manager is. First he didn't bother to follow-up with a customer that called and left a message, and now he wants you to check with corporate because he apparently will not ask them to confirm that there is no policy and he's apparently okay with leaving a sign up that may be in violation of company policy and which is likely turning away customers.

But I do hope that it turns out okay. Still hope we get to see in the end who did what.

I suspect that someone working for the local government needs to lose their job over this. If we had preemption with teeth, like they do in Florida, then someone would not only be losing their job, but could be facing stiff fines as well.

Adding real teeth to preemption should be one of the next big legislative goals in Virginia.

TFred

 

[Grapeshot]

Has anybody filed a FOIA. Think the mall management would have to respond as they are an "authority" as I understand it under terms of § 15.2-915.

Would request all correspondance, emails, memos and copies of purchase orders relative to "no guns" and/or "no guns" stickers/decals.

 

[mpg9999]

I didn't hear back yet so I called today and spoke with the GM. He told me he had only been there two weeks so he didn't know when the signs went up. He said it's not a policy they set at the store level and he was unaware of corporate policy, and said I would need to contact them. I contacted Chipotle through their website just now with the following message:

"Hi, I am a regular customer at the Peninsula Town Center ( 3510 Von Schilling Dr, Hampton, VA ) Chipotle location. I was surprised and disappointed when I noticed a "no guns" sign posted on the door during a recent visit. It was my understanding that Chipotle had a policy of just following the local law, and not prohibiting law abiding citizens from carrying legal weapons. I spoke with the General Manager, George Kiesel, and he informed me that he was new and wasn't sure when the signs went up. What is Chipotles corporate policy, and if the sign is against corporate policy, would you be able to inform the store so they can have them removed? Thanks."

That was fast:

"Thanks for writing to us. I’m sorry to hear there was some confusion about the sign. We actually decided to remove these signs from all our restaurants and I apologize that the sign was still up. I just called our team and spoke to George. The sign you are referring to is actually a sticker and George (or someone on his team) will scrape it off the door today. Of course, we will still follow all local laws regarding guns—and we will ask that our guests do the same—but as a company, we do not place any restrictions other than those required by local law.

Sincerely,
Shannon

Shannon Kyllo | Customer Service Manager
Chipotle Mexican Grill"