Occupy...?

[Roy Hobbs]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog...-occupy-wall-street-protesters-post-manifest/

This is their corrected list of proposed demands - the blogger in question was using comments in a forum by an individual, so I concede your point that there is someone who is nominally affiliated with OWS who made a lot of crackpot demands. Recognize that there are some with cooler heads who have come up with what seems to be something a bit more reasonable-sounding.

From your link to the Washington Times blog. I shortened things with ellipses because there is a lot of text that made this post extra double super long. On with the show -

*Update-Post #1 was a proposed list from an OWS supporter in their forum. Below is a working proposed list of demands by Occupy Wall Street (OWS):

Below is a list of proposed "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS":

"The Sovereign People's Movement, represented nationally through the people occupying the various Liberty Square locations across this great country, have laid out and democratically submitted and are currently voting on the list of following Demands to then be distilled into one Unified Common demand of the people."

CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT...

USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis...

CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections...

CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE...

CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected...

CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS...

CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED...

ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS...

 

[Metalhead47]

With regards to the YouTube video, that was an outsider's interpretation of the OWS movement and not a statement from the group(s) or even individuals themselves.

I just spent about 5 minutes Googling for a list of their demands. I was unable to find any official statements made by these groups that come even remotely close to the motives and/or goals that you attribute to them (basically, installing Marxism/socialism in the US). As I said before, citation please.

And I do watch the news.

You seem to be ignoring the obvious then. Schlepnier beat me to it, it would appear his google-fu is stronger than yours, grahshoppah. Or mine for that matter.

If it walks like a socialist, quacks like a socialist, and protests like a socialist, IT'S A SOCIALIST!

 

[Metalhead47]

This is their corrected list of proposed demands - the blogger in question was using comments in a forum by an individual, so I concede your point that there is someone who is nominally affiliated with OWS who made a lot of crackpot demands. Recognize that there are some with cooler heads who have come up with what seems to be something a bit more reasonable-sounding.

From your link to the Washington Times blog. I shortened things with ellipses because there is a lot of text that made this post extra double super long. On with the show -

*Update-Post #1 was a proposed list from an OWS supporter in their forum. Below is a working proposed list of demands by Occupy Wall Street (OWS):

Below is a list of proposed "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS":

"The Sovereign People's Movement, represented nationally through the people occupying the various Liberty Square locations across this great country, have laid out and democratically submitted and are currently voting on the list of following Demands to then be distilled into one Unified Common demand of the people."

CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT...

USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis...

CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections...

CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE...

CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected...

CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS...

CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED...

ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS...

So you call the Buffet rule & government-this & federal-oversight-that "reasonable?"

Sorry, I call that socialism, wrapped up in contemporary American liberalism.

 

[Roy Hobbs]

Schlepnier's link actually kind of made my point for me (see above for what's actually at that link, or, heck, click on it yourself). In any political population, the bell curve applies - 2% wackos at either end of the spectrum and most of the rest grouped in the middle. The middle here seems to be a lot like the updated post that Schlepnier linked to, and I don't think that list of proposed demands is that far out on the fringe.

 

[Metalhead47]

Schlepnier's link actually kind of made my point for me (see above for what's actually at that link, or, heck, click on it yourself). In any political population, the bell curve applies - 2% wackos at either end of the spectrum and most of the rest grouped in the middle. The middle here seems to be a lot like the updated post that Schlepnier linked to, and I don't think that list of proposed demands is that far out on the fringe.

Taking more money from "rich people" to give it to those the gov't deems more worthy... you don't call that "fringe?"

You're still ignoring the obvious. That "revised" list of demands is nothing more than some OWS socialist slightly more intelligent than the other OWS socialists realized that the original demand list sounded too, well, SOCIALIST! So in grand liberal fashion, they found a "less radical sounding" way to spout the same radical demands. These people are NOTHING BUT fringe, with a few non-fringe lefties hanging around them who are not smart enough to realize that.

 

[Roy Hobbs]

So you call the Buffet rule & government-this & federal-oversight-that "reasonable?"

Sorry, I call that socialism, wrapped up in contemporary American liberalism.

Let's take this line by line, because I'm not seeing a whole lot of socialism here (my definition of socialism is the mass transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor)

CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT...

Glass-Steagall was enacted in the 30's in order to separate Investment Banking from Commercial/Retail operations. It was repealed in the 90's during the Clinton administration. Clinton wasn't necessarily a pure socialist, but he did lean that way. Seems weird that they would want to have a law reinstated that one of their own worked to repeal.

USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis...

I can't see socialism here either - asking the Congress to, you know, get Federal agencies to actually enforce the law seems to me to be pretty ideologially neutral.

CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections...

Have no idea where the socialism is here.

CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE...

OK, I can see it here. That said, nobody can deny that the fact that the 400 wealthiest Americans paid an average of 18% of their income in taxes when the top bracket is set at (I think) 39%. Something seems a little off about that. Buffett is just about the least likely person to be called a socialist. He doesn't even pay dividends to his shareholders, of which I am one.

CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected...

Where's the socialism here? The SEC is supposed to stop things like the credit crash and its aftermath. I'd say that they failed, and a rational act would be to fire the people who screwed up.

CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS...

Is taking the money out of politics so that perhaps politicians would listen to the voices of their constituents, instead of their contributors, socialism?

CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED...

This seems like something that is a no-brainer. Boeing (translation - clearly not socialists) has a rule that their former employees are not allowed to work for their suppliers for two years or so.

ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS...

This seems like the elimination of regulation.

 

[carry for myself]

our occupy camps here in maine are getting outright bloody violent. and guess what the police have NOTHING to do with it. apperently the occupiers are beating eachother in the face with hammers for drumming, jumping eachother over food and strangling thier girlfriends in thier tents..........PEACEFUL PROTEST WE GOT HERE :banghead: time to make these people OCCUPY some jailcells.

 

[Jayd1981]

our occupy camps here in maine are getting outright bloody violent. and guess what the police have NOTHING to do with it. apperently the occupiers are beating eachother in the face with hammers for drumming, jumping eachother over food and strangling thier girlfriends in thier tents..........PEACEFUL PROTEST WE GOT HERE :banghead: time to make these people OCCUPY some jailcells.

I am perfectly fine with them arresting someone who is commiting assault or theft. They can even get in a few blows in self defense on the guy strangling his girlfriend. I still DO NOT support a POS officer walking down the line and pepper spraying a group of sitting protesters and then claiming resistance because one person pulled their arm back another curled up in a ball. That is plain wrong.

 

[Schlepnier]

Roy Hobbs
In your rush to only look at the list of demands, i see you totally ignored everything else i posted links for.
Namely all the ideals they stand for in their own words, not sanitised for public consumption, groups that make up OWS from labor unions like SEIU(service employees international) AFL-CIO, socialist workers party, ISO (international socialists oirganisation) to their other colorful supporters of socialism
.american nazi party
.american communist party
.government of north korea
.chinese communist party
.hezbuallah
.the government of iran
and the list goes on and on..........

as metalhead already said

If it walks like a socialist, quacks like a socialist, and protests like a socialist, IT'S A SOCIALIST!



If there were ever a more apt time that the oath of service applies i cannot think of one

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

These are the enemies domestic that stand against the constitution, no matter who they may sucker into standing with them they are at the core the enemies of my country, my liberty and my person. i cannot understand how anybody who has seen the greater body of evidence is unable to understand the threat these OWS groups pose to the USA.


If you have some time to kill i suggest you watch a few videos.

the first would be rather humorous if the people weren't so patheticaly ignorant.
former citizen of the USSR confronts OWS protestors-
http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/10/26/communism-kills/

If you have a good 2 hours to kill i suggest you learn some in-depth information about just who the OWS movement really are-
http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/10/25/the-truth-about-occupy-wall-street-full-episode-for-free/

 

[Schlepnier]

OK, I can see it here. That said, nobody can deny that the fact that the 400 wealthiest Americans paid an average of 18% of their income in taxes when the top bracket is set at (I think) 39%. Something seems a little off about that. Buffett is just about the least likely person to be called a socialist. He doesn't even pay dividends to his shareholders, of which I am one.

Seems you need to do a bit more research-from the IRS
the top 1% of the nations earners paid 38% of the nations bills, the top 25% pay 80% of thenations bills

a full 47% of the population pay NOTHING

that leaves 53% of the total US population holding the bag.....if anybody should "pay there fair share" it isn't the rich.

Buffett is a tool, he does what he does to make himself more money, he could pay himself a regular salary ansd get taxed at the higher rate, however he chooses to only live off his capital gains income which are taxed at a much lower rate. he does this by choice. it is hardly worth any weight that he wants other people to suffer a higher tax rate when he refuses to pay what the rate is now.

I think this video sums up the subject with a bit of humor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ifpEROFT-U

 

[amlevin]

Buffett is a tool, he does what he does to make himself more money, he could pay himself a regular salary ansd get taxed at the higher rate, however he chooses to only live off his capital gains income which are taxed at a much lower rate. he does this by choice. it is hardly worth any weight that he wants other people to suffer a higher tax rate when he refuses to pay what the rate is now.

There's nothing in the Law that would prevent Warren Buffet from just sending a check to the US Treasury. Just make it out for the amount he feels he is under taxed.

Ditto for the Gates clan.

As for these "Foundations" the rich all seem to have set up, I'd like to see a restriction on the amount they can deduct. Limit the deduction for foreign expenditures. Only deductible if they can show they spent a like amount on charities in the US and then they can deduct the sum of both.

 

[gogodawgs]

There's nothing in the Law that would prevent Warren Buffet from just sending a check to the US Treasury. Just make it out for the amount he feels he is under taxed.

Ditto for the Gates clan.

As for these "Foundations" the rich all seem to have set up, I'd like to see a restriction on the amount they can deduct. Limit the deduction for foreign expenditures. Only deductible if they can show they spent a like amount on charities in the US and then they can deduct the sum of both.

[video=youtube_share;-ifpEROFT-U]http://youtu.be/-ifpEROFT-U[/video]

 

[amzbrady]

Always the same solutions, find the best fix that works for them to work around a problem instead of just fixing the problem. Unfortunatley their fix, is like flushing a plugged toilet.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Trying to argue that OWS isn't commie leaning with a socialist agenda, is like trying to argue water isn't wet.

Anyone who does it is either obtuse, or disingenuous.

 

[gogodawgs]

Trying to argue that OWS isn't commie leaning with a socialist agenda, is like trying to argue water isn't wet.

Anyone who does it is either obtuse, or disingenuous.

Agreed, the OWS is a pinko commie, socialist agenda....


However, they have the right to assemble peacefully, especially on public property (i.e. college campus).

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

No squatting, camping, modifying of the property, but they can assemble day after day...

 

[Metalhead47]

Agreed, the OWS is a pinko commie, socialist agenda....


However, they have the right to assemble peacefully, especially on public property (i.e. college campus).

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

No squatting, camping, modifying of the property, but they can assemble day after day...

... and what about when they start blocking access to public places, y'know like sitting on the sidewalk with arms linked refusing to move, or otherwise denying the public access to public property?

 

[gogodawgs]

... and what about when they start blocking access to public places, y'know like sitting on the sidewalk with arms linked refusing to move, or otherwise denying the public access to public property?

Yes, as long as it is done peaceably.

What rights do you want to limit?

You see, if you can't sit there with your arms linked, what pressure can you put on your government?

While I DO NOT like anything about OWS, let them sit there in peace, arms linked, even blocking access to public buildings and property so as to redress their grievances.

If all of the OCDO members around the country decide to go form a human chain around the capitol building in Washington, DC and prevent members of congress from entering (yes I know there is an underground entrance), then darn right WE have that right.

 

[Metalhead47]

Yes, as long as it is done peaceably.

What rights do you want to limit?

You see, if you can't sit there with your arms linked, what pressure can you put on your government?

While I DO NOT like anything about OWS, let them sit there in peace, arms linked, even blocking access to public buildings and property so as to redress their grievances.

If all of the OCDO members around the country decide to go form a human chain around the capitol building in Washington, DC and prevent members of congress from entering (yes I know there is an underground entrance), then darn right WE have that right.

Do we? Do THEY? "Peaceable assembly" is one thing, but how does that cover denying the rest of the public THEIR right to also assemble in or otherwise use that space?

 

[Stretch]

Just for laughs, I'll leave this here: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided

But, in my view, as long as no laws are being broken and their gatherings are peaceful, let them stand, sit or stay.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Agreed, the OWS is a pinko commie, socialist agenda....


However, they have the right to assemble peacefully, especially on public property (i.e. college campus).

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

No squatting, camping, modifying of the property, but they can assemble day after day...

Men should be free to look at foolish as they want to. This is still America dammit, land of the free, home of the brave... kinda, sort of.