Obama's 'Gun Violence Task Force': Enough bickering. Time to act.

[alphamale]

This link illustrates the mindset of gun control advocates in my opinion, see the chart at the bottom of this link a keeper when arguing against Gun control.



http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/the-nazi-roots-of-u-s-gun-control-laws/

 

[DanM]

. . . we need to stand firm, shoulder to shoulder, with everyone who is willing to fight for the right to bear arms.. not just stand with those who bear arms the way we happen to like... but with everyone.

I stand in full agreement with Bikenut. The corollary to that is, just as a bundle of sticks is broken apart easily if taken twig-by-twig, compromising away parts of RKBA will most undoubtedly lead to its extinction. Gentlemen, we must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.*

*B. Franklin

 

[Haman J.T.]

I stand in full agreement with Bikenut. The corollary to that is, just as a bundle of sticks is broken apart easily if taken twig-by-twig, compromising away parts of RKBA will most undoubtedly lead to its extinction. Gentlemen, we must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.*

*B. Franklin

The "Bundle of sticks" is mandatory if We expect to Repeal the Infringements in place now!

 

[DanM]

The "Bundle of sticks" is mandatory if We expect to Repeal the Infringements in place now!

And, addressing EC's "I want some ideas, some discussion about what we can do to help everyone and avoid additional restrictions", I think the most important idea for that goal is the "bundle of sticks" principle.

It would be nice to see Michigan's individual gun owners and gun-owner organizations unbreakably bound together when it comes to not giving up one twig of gun rights already possessed. The history of gun rights, and their loss, is littered with the fact that compromises sooner or later hurt us.

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

And, addressing EC's "I want some ideas, some discussion about what we can do to help everyone and avoid additional restrictions", I think the most important idea for that goal is the "bundle of sticks" principle.

It would be nice to see Michigan's individual gun owners and gun-owner organizations unbreakably bound together when it comes to not giving up one twig of gun rights already possessed. The history of gun rights, and their loss, is littered with the fact that compromises sooner or later hurt us.

This is one of the main points of wording my OP the way I did, and thanks everyone for keeping your quarrels and bs out of this thread.

I see there are some events planned and things already. I'm working on something myself too, and will post details here when I have them.

Your input continues to be valuable, friends.

 

[mikestilly]

And, addressing EC's "I want some ideas, some discussion about what we can do to help everyone and avoid additional restrictions", I think the most important idea for that goal is the "bundle of sticks" principle.

It would be nice to see Michigan's individual gun owners and gun-owner organizations unbreakably bound together when it comes to not giving up one twig of gun rights already possessed. The history of gun rights, and their loss, is littered with the fact that compromises sooner or later hurt us.

I agree Dan but getting gun rights groups in Michigan to band together is quite difficult if not impossible. It's sad to say that a group as prestigious as MCRGO was more then happy to throw open carry under the bus to pass a bill supporting their interests. Group like MOC which was created to further interests of open carry and core principal of desensitising the public by with regard to open carry actually support a bill that would have criminalized open carry for the first time ever. At this time I wouldn't support any of these groups. This doesn't mean things can't change though and that's what I'm hoping for.

As for this thread which has mostly bickering as the topic states. Something I'd suggest we do is to gather in a place that would make the biggest impact. Specifically in a PFZ, universities in particular for many reasons. Some of those reasons being: campus carry limitation issue, the largest group of people mostly of age to either open carry or get a CPL, and it would be a great way to take on the anti-gun establishment by way of opening discourse with many different people who would qeuestion why firearms and why open carry. I can't think of a better way to get in front of a large number of people in which to engage in dialog. Most things I see MOC and others doing is only catering to like minded gun owners, with moc interested in open carrying specifically. I'd like to see some people get some real balls and start dialog with people who are not just the same old hot dog burning open carry crowd but people who you'd really have to have real discussions about firearms, self defense, open carry, etc ..all the relevent issues. Some say they won't do it because they won't allow carry on campus for us to do it. I believe this is a cop out based on fear. Why must you carry a firearm to talk about gun rights? It's pretty ignorant and selfish to think that you have to have a firearm in view in order to prove points. I for one would be the first to volunteer to join a group of others interested in doing this. I'm not scared to go all out and would hope we could get a large group together to join me. As the topic states ENOUGH BICKERING LET'S DO SOMETHING.

For those of you who are new and don't know me I was a very active member of MOC in the past until I and many others felt they completely lost focus and went off a cliff. I've volenteered at several open carry seminars. Last one being the largest ever after the state wide media attention on MOC and open carry. Gander mtn was standing room only. I've also probably had the largest open carry picnic ever in Warren which I felt had to be done after Hamaneggs was assaulted by Warren PD. The picnic was just under 200 people and we had many Warren public officials attend which included the now chief of Warren PD, and several other officers, the director of parks and rec, several people running for office (2 for gov and 1 for district). Many of whom are CPL holders might I add. Needless to say it was a lot of fun and had a large impact on the Warren PD who used to have many problems with open carry. Now a few years after not a single negative open carry experience and I know hammoneggs still OCs down the same stretch of Warren


DanM and others please let me know your thoughts.

 

[DanM]

I agree Dan but getting gun rights groups in Michigan to band together is quite difficult if not impossible.

In the spirit of EC's thread here, I won't go into detail about past disappointment with MI gun orgs. But I think it is ok to contribute the following as another idea as we move to further action:

All Michigan gun-owner organizations need to honestly assess and communicate to members, prospective members, and each other who and what exactly they defend. That is, what is their "red line" and any gun rights beyond their red line they may possibly compromise on.

What's inside the red line, and what's outside it? Handguns, long guns, UBRs, black powder, hunting, CC, OC, riddance of "permits" or "licenses", riddance of PFZs, riddance of registration, etc.?

It would be great if all MI gun orgs could say "we're all sticking together and it's 'all the above' when it comes to gun rights that we will not give any further ground on". And I don't think that is impossible. It just takes leadership being present in all the groups to reach out to each other and say, "We may not be able to stop anti-gun legislation, but we certainly will not aid nor abet it and we will mobilize all of our bases against it and at the ballot boxes!"

The failure of that is not a failure on what is possible, but a failure in leadership in one or more of the orgs. But, at least if there is a failure in an orgs leadership to cooperate with other orgs in defending ALL RKBA, it would at least be nice for such an org to at least be honest with themselves and others about where they see their red line at, beyond which they may throw some gun owners under the bus.

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

I agree Dan but getting gun rights groups in Michigan to band together is quite difficult if not impossible. It's sad to say that a group as prestigious as MCRGO was more then happy to throw open carry under the bus to pass a bill supporting their interests. Group like MOC which was created to further interests of open carry and core principal of desensitising the public by with regard to open carry actually support a bill that would have criminalized open carry for the first time ever. At this time I wouldn't support any of these groups. This doesn't mean things can't change though and that's what I'm hoping for.

As for this thread which has mostly bickering as the topic states. Something I'd suggest we do is to gather in a place that would make the biggest impact. Specifically in a PFZ, universities in particular for many reasons. Some of those reasons being: campus carry limitation issue, the largest group of people mostly of age to either open carry or get a CPL, and it would be a great way to take on the anti-gun establishment by way of opening discourse with many different people who would qeuestion why firearms and why open carry. I can't think of a better way to get in front of a large number of people in which to engage in dialog. Most things I see MOC and others doing is only catering to like minded gun owners, with moc interested in open carrying specifically. I'd like to see some people get some real balls and start dialog with people who are not just the same old hot dog burning open carry crowd but people who you'd really have to have real discussions about firearms, self defense, open carry, etc ..all the relevent issues. Some say they won't do it because they won't allow carry on campus for us to do it. I believe this is a cop out based on fear. Why must you carry a firearm to talk about gun rights? It's pretty ignorant and selfish to think that you have to have a firearm in view in order to prove points. I for one would be the first to volunteer to join a group of others interested in doing this. I'm not scared to go all out and would hope we could get a large group together to join me. As the topic states ENOUGH BICKERING LET'S DO SOMETHING.

For those of you who are new and don't know me I was a very active member of MOC in the past until I and many others felt they completely lost focus and went off a cliff. I've volenteered at several open carry seminars. Last one being the largest ever after the state wide media attention on MOC and open carry. Gander mtn was standing room only. I've also probably had the largest open carry picnic ever in Warren which I felt had to be done after Hamaneggs was assaulted by Warren PD. The picnic was just under 200 people and we had many Warren public officials attend which included the now chief of Warren PD, and several other officers, the director of parks and rec, several people running for office (2 for gov and 1 for district). Many of whom are CPL holders might I add. Needless to say it was a lot of fun and had a large impact on the Warren PD who used to have many problems with open carry. Now a few years after not a single negative open carry experience and I know hammoneggs still OCs down the same stretch of Warren


DanM and others please let me know your thoughts.

Yes if we were going to do this, obviously we wouldn't want to be carrying since Universities can regulate this, but with enough people this might be a good idea. Young open minded college kids just starting to formulate opinions about the world. I would be in for something like this if done right.

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

In the spirit of EC's thread here, I won't go into detail about past disappointment with MI gun orgs. But I think it is ok to contribute the following as another idea as we move to further action:

All Michigan gun-owner organizations need to honestly assess and communicate to members, prospective members, and each other who and what exactly they defend. That is, what is their "red line" and any gun rights beyond their red line they may possibly compromise on.

What's inside the red line, and what's outside it? Handguns, long guns, UBRs, black powder, hunting, CC, OC, riddance of "permits" or "licenses", riddance of PFZs, riddance of registration, etc.?

It would be great if all MI gun orgs could say "we're all sticking together and it's 'all the above' when it comes to gun rights that we will not give any further ground on". And I don't think that is impossible. It just takes leadership being present in all the groups to reach out to each other and say, "We may not be able to stop anti-gun legislation, but we certainly will not aid nor abet it and we will mobilize all of our bases against it and at the ballot boxes!"

The failure of that is not a failure on what is possible, but a failure in leadership in one or more of the orgs. But, at least if there is a failure in an orgs leadership to cooperate with other orgs in defending ALL RKBA, it would at least be nice for such an org to at least be honest with themselves and others about where they see their red line at, beyond which they may throw some gun owners under the bus.

I understand your sentiments here, but gun .orgs are not really required for this project. We just need people. If these people are members of these .orgs, great. If some of these .orgs want to get behind what we're doing, also great. But we shouldn't let their actions get in the way of ours.

 

[DanM]

I understand your sentiments here, but gun .orgs are not really required for this project. We just need people. . . .

Oh, ok, I see what you are getting at.

 

[FreeInAZ]

Now on topic

Here in AZ some counties have a sworn force of reserve deputies/posse's . http://www.mcsoposse.org/ They have full arrest powers. They often are volunteers usually and perform many valuable functions after completing a training program. Why not expand this idea nation wide and have school posse's? This let's the districts off the hook for liability and gives younger people, veterans, or retirees a valuable chance to gain training and experience in a LE role while serving their community.

We will never stop the nuts until they know the schools are no longer a shoot the fish in the barrel fun zone for them.

Just to follow up the Maricopa Co. Sherrif has announced a new school posse program. He must read this site along with Craigs List.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/she...lan-to-mobilize-armed-posse-to-guard-schools/