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NRA called today: $10,000 FINE

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
The plan is a revenue generator.

Most people would not have to pay the fee on most calls they make.

The fee would cost telemarketers millions for the privilege of calling folks willy-nilly.

[mirroring your arrogance]I pay $35 a month for an account with TWO iPhones. You should try that.[/mirroring your arrogance]

On point, though: Free enterprise results in consumer choice. I find it FAR less expensive NOT to have unlimited minutes. I am merely advocating for phone companies offering a plan that allows me to charge uninvited callers. (And for a government rule that bars commercial lying, a form of fraud.)

Anyway, this is getting repetitive. Have a nice day.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,659
Location
here nc
Course, if student loans, car & house payments, etc., were current ~ perhaps spoof calls would diminish?
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,659
Location
here nc
Good post. I would like to add:

Requiring that the caller not lie about who they are is not “clamping down on free enterprise”. Spoofing telephone numbers to trick people into answering calls that would cause them to have to pay to take the call is, at least on a moral level, fraud. Stopping such behavior is kinda the point of having government.

The government making spoofing (commercial lying) illegal, combined with one or more telephone companies choosing to implement a pay-to-call system (with waivers) is a free-market solution.
Wait eye95 your mantra previously...omgoodness too much oversight dissolve the government now you want the dreaded government agencies to intercede into the telemarketing arena to stop a capitalist profit center?

[eye95 what is this kick you’re on about lying?]

Darn, eye95’s arrogant & infamous modus operandi kicked in as he has wished everyone a “nice day”
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,814
Location
Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Might I point out that the Do Not Call registry does not apply to those organizations with which you've done business, unless you specifically request to be put on their Do Not Call list. (see exemptions here). If you're an NRA member, if you've been an NRA member, if you've bought from them or attended one of their sponsored shows, you have done business.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
680
Location
Kentucky
I just got a call from social security telling me I'm drug trafficking and money laundering and arrest is imminent unless I give my ss no.

I asked if I had time to put on clean underwear. They hung up.

I've called the back 5 times so far until they aren't answering lol
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,758
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Nothing special about it.

I don't answer calls from numbers not on my contact list.
And there are plenty of ID and blocking apps for phones. I use HIYA.

As to the "federal list ". We see that working about as well as most other federal efforts.

Supreme Court upheld NFA, GCA, and a ton of other unconstititonal tripe. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

Junk calls aren't something I relish.
But we don't need anymore laws and regulations to deal with em.
When I said that unsolicited calls are annoying, I meant that my phone ringing excessively is annoying. If telemarketers respected by the Do Not Call Registry, they wouldn't be ringing my phone. Simply ignoring calls from people I don't know doesn't address the problem.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
680
Location
Kentucky
When I said that unsolicited calls are annoying, I meant that my phone ringing excessively is annoying. If telemarketers respected by the Do Not Call Registry, they wouldn't be ringing my phone. Simply ignoring calls from people I don't know doesn't address the problem.
They should abide the do not call registry but they don't. And never intended too.

The app I mentioned, and there are many others has its own constantly updated data base of telemarketers and spam numbers and does not allow those calls to ring in.
Plus you can also block numbers using it yourself.

Most of the apps are free or a couple of bucks one time.
 

357SigFan

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
145
Location
STL MO, USA
Good luck. The FCC doesn’t seem to be enforcing those regulations.

My proposed solution:

1. Require phone companies to provide the real phone numbers of callers, or “blocked”. Don’t allow them to pass along spoofed numbers. The phone companies KNOW the callers’ numbers. Yet they allow spoofing. Make this practice illegal.

2. Charge all callers 25 cents to call a cell phone. Called party gets most of the fee. A small part is shared by the involved phone companies.

3. Waive the fee if the calling number is not blocked and is in the called phones contacts list.

4. Waive the fee if the called party touches a button labeled “Accept call and waive fee”. The calling phone number is then added to the contacts list of the called phone.

Spam calls will end almost immediately.
Spoofing already IS illegal for the reasons the spammers are doing it.


But to make it totally illegal isn't the answer because there ARE legitimate reasons to do it - for example, when a person calls an extension on my companies phone system, if that extension is using call forwarding or mobile twinning, the CID information that is passed to the outbound call is that of the call coming into the extension, so that the device that the call is forwarded to will show the information of the person calling. Without spoofing, it would show the DID for the extension being called. This is a legitimate use for spoofing.

There need to be stiff penalties that are actually enforced for the illegal use of spoofing. With how digital the telcos networks likely are these days, I'm sure there is a way to trace every detail of every hop a call takes, from its point of origin to its destination.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Great find.

To help combat neighbor spoofing, the FCC is urging the phone industry to adopt a robust caller ID authentication system.
To heck with that. The FCC should require that phone companies identify spoofed ID. They KNOW the number from which the call is coming. Don’t allow the caller to report any other number. Doing so is being complicit in the fraud being perpetrated by the spoofer.

Once calls can no longer be spoofed, then phone companies, at their choice (you know, free markets), and as motivated by their customers (you know, free markets), can implement a pay-to-call system with exceptions for known contacts. Spam calls will die a natural death.

Step one is to enforce the illegality of spoofing.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,659
Location
here nc
Great find.

To heck with that. The FCC should require that phone companies identify spoofed ID. They KNOW the number from which the call is coming. Don’t allow the caller to report any other number. Doing so is being complicit in the fraud being perpetrated by the spoofer.

Once calls can no longer be spoofed, then phone companies, at their choice (you know, free markets), and as motivated by their customers (you know, free markets), can implement a pay-to-call system with exceptions for known contacts. Spam calls will die a natural death.

Step one is to enforce the illegality of spoofing.
eye95, there is that pesky governmental oversight you have stated you want to get rid of...

next you will complain when the FCC institutes ERPOs on citizens phones...:rolleyes:
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
680
Location
Kentucky
Great find.



To heck with that. The FCC should require that phone companies identify spoofed ID. They KNOW the number from which the call is coming. Don’t allow the caller to report any other number. Doing so is being complicit in the fraud being perpetrated by the spoofer.

Once calls can no longer be spoofed, then phone companies, at their choice (you know, free markets), and as motivated by their customers (you know, free markets), can implement a pay-to-call system with exceptions for known contacts. Spam calls will die a natural death.

Step one is to enforce the illegality of spoofing.
Laws, only apply to those willing to obey them.

Since most spoof etc calls are coming from the middle east good luck with adding more laws and regulations that don't work now and won't work in the future anymore than gun laws, laws against murder, theft, etc work to prevent squat

Don't want to be murdered, raped etc, take responsibility arm yourself and defend yourself.

Don't want unwanted calls. Harden your phones defenses against them.
It ain't that hard
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Again, I am asking that the FCC stop telephone providers in the US from allowing spoofing. They can stop spoofing from every phone in the US. They know the phone number from which every call comes. For calls generating outside the US, they can at least identify the country it is coming from and prevent spoofing with a US phone number.

One of the legitimate functions of government is to enforce prohibitions on fraud, including creating and enforcing prohibitions on commercial entities aiding and abetting fraud.

And again, thank you for rational and respectful disagreement.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,659
Location
here nc
Again, I am asking that the FCC stop telephone providers in the US from allowing spoofing. They can stop spoofing from every phone in the US. They know the phone number from which every call comes. For calls generating outside the US, they can at least identify the country it is coming from and prevent spoofing with a US phone number.

One of the legitimate functions of government is to enforce prohibitions on fraud, including creating and enforcing prohibitions on commercial entities aiding and abetting fraud.

And again, thank you for rational and respectful disagreement.
Sorry eye95...ONE of goverment’s LEGITIMATE functions...prohibitions on fraud...really?

This from the habitual whiner concerning governmental oversight of this nation’s citizens, now advocating the government step in to regulate telephone providers...great flip/flop hypocrisy behavior sending mixed messages to readers...
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
680
Location
Kentucky
Again, I am asking that the FCC stop telephone providers in the US from allowing spoofing. They can stop spoofing from every phone in the US. They know the phone number from which every call comes. For calls generating outside the US, they can at least identify the country it is coming from and prevent spoofing with a US phone number.

One of the legitimate functions of government is to enforce prohibitions on fraud, including creating and enforcing prohibitions on commercial entities aiding and abetting fraud.

And again, thank you for rational and respectful disagreement.
Point I'm trying to make is there are

1 A no call list
2. Laws against fraud etc.

They don't work as most laws don't to prevent anything.

More laws and regs won't stop junk calls.

A phone can over a short amount of time be hardened until junk calls are rare if not stopped completely. For free.

JMO but adding more regulation that won't work to existing failed regulation is just asking regular folks to be pestered with more gov regulation that junk callers will ignore and be affected not at all.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
And my point is:

1. There is no law against phone companies being complicit in the fraud known as spoofing.

2. If there were such a law, one that required that phone companies detect and undo spoofing, they would comply, for fear of losing their government approval to use radio frequencies.

3. Spoofing would end.

4. Phone companies could then offer services, for profit (so they would offer), such as the one I have proposed, that would virtually end spam calls.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,659
Location
here nc
And my point is:

1. There is no law against phone companies being complicit in the fraud known as spoofing.

2. If there were such a law, one that required that phone companies detect and undo spoofing, they would comply, for fear of losing their government approval to use radio frequencies.

3. Spoofing would end.

4. Phone companies could then offer services, for profit (so they would offer), such as the one I have proposed, that would virtually end spam calls.
Eye95 how on earth could ma bell’s offspring complicit in spoofing any more than they are complicit with anyone fat fingering in & dialing in a wrong number ?

Ok eye95, let’s see telco’s develop technology to cease and desist spoofing ~ opppps eye95 your cost(s) per call/usage just skyrocketed!

oh wait eye95 weren’t you just whining about telco service cost(s)?

Personally eye95 it is easier to ignore unwanted inbounds and not have Orwell’s 1949 story become even more reality than it already has, thank you.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,567
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Might I point out that the Do Not Call registry does not apply to those organizations with which you've done business, unless you specifically request to be put on their Do Not Call list. (see exemptions here). If you're an NRA member, if you've been an NRA member, if you've bought from them or attended one of their sponsored shows, you have done business.
Years ago when I had Werner cable TV I specifically set-up do not call for any advertising or promotions. I ended up with about three years of free cable TV. It seemed like every 3 to 4 months they would call 4 or 5 times in a week. I would tape record the promotion. They thought it wiser to provide me free TV versus me reporting them. If I remember the fine was $1,000. Better me getting free TV than the Government, I was the victim not the gov.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
680
Location
Kentucky
And my point is:

1. There is no law against phone companies being complicit in the fraud known as spoofing.

2. If there were such a law, one that required that phone companies detect and undo spoofing, they would comply, for fear of losing their government approval to use radio frequencies.

3. Spoofing would end.

4. Phone companies could then offer services, for profit (so they would offer), such as the one I have proposed, that would virtually end spam calls.
All your proposal would do, is slow service down, double the plan costs and accomplish little to nothing.

It's using a tank to try kill a, chipmunk.

No use debating it. Never going to be implemented.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
It will do no such things. The telephone companies already have the telephone number of every domestic call, and (at least) the country of origin of all foreign calls. A tiny programming change will prevent any domestic number from being used as a spoof number.

A tiny programming change would not be a “tank”.

If something is not debated, it cannot be implemented.
 
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