No primary election (by ballot) in Washington State this year

[gogodawgs]

So apathy is the result of not being satisfied with the choices they give us.There is no they, those who participate choose.
Yes we get to bitch, I didn't contribute to the illusion of consent.Yes you do get to bitch, but yes you did contribute to the illusion of consent. Even more so by not participating.
I won't give any politician that isn't at least mostly constitutional a vote.Fair enough, but there have been constitutional and libertarian parties for decades as well as the ability to write-in candidates.
Besides like I said in a stump speech if any of the politicians stuck with the constitution it really wouldn't matter if they were on the fake left or fake right because they wouldnt have much power to be involved in our personal lives anyway. This is spot on, especially on the national scale.

I find it interesting that some get upset I had not decided to participate before instead of being happy I am participating now, maybe that's because I still won't pick their guy. Not upset, truth is I'd rather not have you vote at all. Wow, that's a bold statement! Yes, because it gives my vote more power.

Go vote, vote for the lesser of two evils you still are moving us toward tyranny and doing nothing to reverse it. Not voting makes a bigger statement that we don't approve. A very poor rationalization. Not voting makes no statement, it gives my vote more power.

Like I said before the progression has been one of progressively worse presidents, Romney, Gingritch, Santorum will follow in that pattern. They will be not "undo" Obama's actions and add more to the ever increasing bureaucracy increasing spending, etc... At some point the country will become ok with an increase in government and those opposed the minority. Only internal turmoil may overturn such progression.

Why bitch that I hadn't participated before and not be happy I am participating now? Is it because I am still not choosing your guy? Nope, would rather you not vote and thus empower my vote as double its value.

One last thing, I am taking your statements above as only from a national scale. Voting for local positions has a far greater influence on your daily life than that of our national congress

 

[hermannr]

They will have the printout, you will sign in, and they will check you off. The Voters registration card is more for you so you know what precinct you are in.

Like in the old elections, you would walk up to the table for your precinct's names, and sign the list...They never asked for your card unless you were not in the book for some reason.

SVG: Because this is your first time, I suggest you make sure you have your card readily available. JIC,

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Good discussions....

Just a hypothetical...

What if, in the next election, every single person voted their conscience? By this I mean that every eligible voter either voted for the D, the R, or wrote in a person that they preferred? My guess is that the D or R would still win, but would do so with far less than half of the popular vote. This is significant because political parties & candidates are trying to capture the support of "likely voters." If everybody was a likely voter then parties would likely run different candidates to capture the support of the voters. It might take an election cycle or two for the impact to become evident, but I do think it'd happen. The way I see it, writing in "Jesus Christ" or "John Doe" is preferable to not voting because it at least documents a person's disapproval of the candidates on the ballot. Opting out of the process entirely just makes that person irrelevant to the entire election process.

Interesting points and one reason why I have decided to participate. Even though many feel I am "throwing away" my vote....

I still don't feel those who don't vote are not irrelevant to the process, voting is what the R's and D's want it gives them the illusion of consent. What if hypothetically instead of choosing the lesser of two evils no one partook then the illusion would be busted. And the fake democracy they tell us we are living under exposed.

Nick and Rob discussion.....lol

Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner
So apathy is the result of not being satisfied with the choices they give us.There is no they, those who participate choose. I disagree, when is the last president that wasn't well connected and choosen from the people?

Yes we get to bitch, I didn't contribute to the illusion of consent.Yes you do get to bitch, but yes you did contribute to the illusion of consent. Even more so by not participating. By not consenting to their rule I contributed to the illusion of consent, doesn't compute? The system rely's on the vote to have the illusion it is governing by "democracy".


I won't give any politician that isn't at least mostly constitutional a vote.Fair enough, but there have been constitutional and libertarian parties for decades as well as the ability to write-in candidates. Yes it is why I have decided I will vote even if in the past I fell for the your vote is thrown away if you don't vote for so and so.
Besides like I said in a stump speech if any of the politicians stuck with the constitution it really wouldn't matter if they were on the fake left or fake right because they wouldnt have much power to be involved in our personal lives anyway. This is spot on, especially on the national scale. That really is crux of it all isn't it.

I find it interesting that some get upset I had not decided to participate before instead of being happy I am participating now, maybe that's because I still won't pick their guy. Not upset, truth is I'd rather not have you vote at all. Wow, that's a bold statement! Yes, because it gives my vote more power. Now I don't believe you want power over people personally but many do and this is what is wrong with "democracy". Which we don't really have since rarely do even 50% of the population vote, so we are having rule by a minority.

Go vote, vote for the lesser of two evils you still are moving us toward tyranny and doing nothing to reverse it. Not voting makes a bigger statement that we don't approve. A very poor rationalization. Not voting makes no statement, it gives my vote more power. See above illustration of why it isn't a poor rationalization, and in your own statement it reveals why. Rights are supposed to reign supreme your vote shouldn't have more power over me because I chose not to chose your candidate.

Like I said before the progression has been one of progressively worse presidents, Romney, Gingritch, Santorum will follow in that pattern. They will be not "undo" Obama's actions and add more to the ever increasing bureaucracy increasing spending, etc... At some point the country will become ok with an increase in government and those opposed the minority. Only internal turmoil may overturn such progression. So why give the illusion of consent to the continual players who bring us down that path?

Why bitch that I hadn't participated before and not be happy I am participating now? Is it because I am still not choosing your guy? Nope, would rather you not vote and thus empower my vote as double its value. Since you are fine with me not voting then why are you answering this question not directed at your point view expressed above? Its directed at those who bitch about those who don't partake?Why you want to rule over others? If I vote Bob Bar or write in Micky mouse wouldn't it be the same result for you?

One last thing, I am taking your statements above as only from a national scale. Voting for local positions has a far greater influence on your daily life than that of our national congress

Absolutely correct and I have involved myself more into politics on a local scale, such as giving a Tea Party stump speech (OCing). And registering to vote and partake. But If I can't find a common constitutional path of any candidate local or national I won't vote for any. I'll write in another name as brought out by the poster above. Actually today I went to city Hall and set up some meeting with some officials too (all while OC'ing). I think that other than just voting there are actually active physical things we can other than just voting.

The bottom line tho is Nick that instead of saying hey great you are voting now some are being judgmental of the fact I have decided not too in the past. Disillusion of the whole system and a belief my vote didn't matter because I didn't like either of the main two choices provided. I am glad that you were able to have reasoned discussion instead of just demagoguery.

I may suggest lewrockwell.com for information blogs and more of a classical liberal take on politics than the standard mass media (including Fox) for some interesting perspectives on things.

They will have the printout, you will sign in, and they will check you off. The Voters registration card is more for you so you know what precinct you are in.

Like in the old elections, you would walk up to the table for your precinct's names, and sign the list...They never asked for your card unless you were not in the book for some reason.

SVG: Because this is your first time, I suggest you make sure you have your card readily available. JIC,

Yea I found it, will do thanks for the advice.

 

[gogodawgs]

Nick and Rob discussion.....lol

Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner
So apathy is the result of not being satisfied with the choices they give us.There is no they, those who participate choose. I disagree, when is the last president that wasn't well connected and choosen from the people?

The correct answer is none. In the entire history of the Republic the answer is none. Those who participate choose. From Washington forward..... From Augustus onward....

My points are meant as stepping off places.....

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Nick and Rob discussion.....lol

Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner
So apathy is the result of not being satisfied with the choices they give us.There is no they, those who participate choose. I disagree, when is the last president that wasn't well connected and choosen from the people?

The correct answer is none. In the entire history of the Republic the answer is none. Those who participate choose. From Washington forward..... From Augustus onward....

My points are meant as stepping off places.....

Mine points too glad we had the discussion thoughts like these help me focus my thoughts or think about other points of views.

I like that point From Augustus onward....in many ways we simply have continued the line of the Roman Empire. Being a break away state from its former Breakaway state of Britannia....After Britannia had displayed dominance over its other Roman states....:lol:

 

[gogodawgs]

Mine points too glad we had the discussion thoughts like these help me focus my thoughts or think about other points of views.

I like that point From Augustus onward....in many ways we simply have continued the line of the Roman Empire. Being a break away state from its former Breakaway state of Britannia....After Britannia had displayed dominance over its other Roman states....:lol:

What do you mean by 'we'?

If you mean the U.S.A then you are too jingoistic

If you mean men/human nature....then you may be onto something......

 

[sudden valley gunner]

What do you mean by 'we'?

If you mean the U.S.A then you are too jingoistic

If you mean men/human nature....then you may be onto something......

LOL...me jingoistic...now that's funny....but U.S Jingoistic....that is something...

Western Culture in General...but especially the Anglo power that has dominated since the Brits defeated the Spanish Armada all that many years ago, then carried on in its breakaway state U.S. The last hundred years it has been pretty much an Anglo/American power dominating, the remnants of the old Roman Republic.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Why should I participate in a rigged system?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Why should I participate in a rigged system?

Along those lines...http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/67582.html

) Voting is the sacrament of the civil religion. I'm a political atheist.
2) Not voting bugs the regime, and no wonder. Such abstinence, like not complying in other ways, weakens them. What if they held an election and nobody came?
3) It's a pain in the neck.
4) Your vote doesn't count, unless the election is decided by a single vote. You are far more likely to be killed on the way to the polls than to have that happen.
5) The candidates itch to rule others. There is no lesser evil.
6) Politics is not our salvation. Indeed, the whole system is corrupt from top to bottom.

 

[amlevin]

Just a hypothetical...

What if, in the next election, every single person voted their conscience? By this I mean that every eligible voter either voted for the D, the R, or wrote in a person that they preferred? My guess is that the D or R would still win, but would do so with far less than half of the popular vote. This is significant because political parties & candidates are trying to capture the support of "likely voters." If everybody was a likely voter then parties would likely run different candidates to capture the support of the voters. It might take an election cycle or two for the impact to become evident, but I do think it'd happen. The way I see it, writing in "Jesus Christ" or "John Doe" is preferable to not voting because it at least documents a person's disapproval of the candidates on the ballot. Opting out of the process entirely just makes that person irrelevant to the entire election process.

At least YOU saw my point.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

One last thing, I am taking your statements above as only from a national scale. Voting for local positions has a far greater influence on your daily life than that of our national congress

Because Dino Rossi won the election 2x, but Greguire is Governor.

Yeah, voting local really has influence.

In case you missed it, that was heavy sarcasm.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

At least YOU saw my point.

Just because other don't agree with your point don't mean we didn't "see your point".

 

[sudden valley gunner]

because dino rossi won the election 2x, but greguire is governor.

Yeah, voting local really has influence.

In case you missed it, that was heavy sarcasm.

lol....

 

[GreatWhiteLlama]

I just got back from the caucus at Bastyr University in Kenmore. I was glad that I was able to OC while doing so, but while there I did noticed a depressing number of Romney supporters. Oh well, at least I was able to do my part. While there I also signed up as an alternate delegate.

This was the first time that I've been to a caucus, but I'll be sure to go to every one that I can from here on out

Ron Paul 2012!

 

[ManInBlack]

I could never figure out why the state got involved in primary elections anyway. This is a political party business, not state business.

Thank you! I've been saying this for years! The parties are essentially private clubs; let them pay to elect their own officers!

Of course, by having the state run the elections it gives the primaries an implied, undeserved imprimatur, thus perpetuating the perception that the Republicrats are the official party of government.

 

[END_THE_FED]

I got back from my caucus a little while ago. Four people showed up for my precinct. Two Ron Paul supporters and two Romney supporters. The PCO was a Romney supporter and automatically became a delegate. We had two empty delegate spots. I filled one of them, there was a tie for the other slot and after a coin flip it was filled by the other Paul supporter. The other Paul delegate will unfortunately not be able to attend the district convention (will be out of state already has non refundable plane tickets) and the alternate is a Romney supporter. However even if she does not show up to the district convention she can still be nominated and elected to go to State.

I stuck around for a few to talk to folks and it seems a lot of Paul delegates were elected. Many Paul delegates stated that they were the only ones to show up for their precinct.

Some precincts did not have anyone show up at all.

 

[hermannr]

I went to a combined caucus in Oroville. I like the old private pricinct caucus we had in the Hamburg precinct before I moved to this side, too much like a zoo this time. I also did not like that I had to come down off the mountain and drive 40 miles just to attend the caucus. I think I'll try work with the county chair and get myself "elected" precinct officer so I can just do this in my house next time, and then all the other people that live up here won't have to drive all the way to town.

Even the party worker that signed people in thinks Ron Paul will carry Okanogan Co easy, straw pool and delegates. Had to leave early as my wife is ill, and got worse,.

One thing we all found a bit strange, there were no campaign posters, bumper stickers, flyers...anything, from any of the campaigns available. There are a couple big "Ron Paul 2012" signs up in Oroville, but no-one knows where to get them..

 

[hermannr]

Oh, yes, the difference between the caucus and primary? In the primary the party can better control the media coverage, so the "expected" result occurs. The media likes it better because of all the add revenue. The caucus gets down and digs. Agood organization (like Ron Paul's) can really influence the outcome and the party bigwigs (they think they are big anyway) don't like that. They want sheep, not people that can think and speak for themselves...same with the D. party.

 

[amlevin]

the party bigwigs (they think they are big anyway)

Have you ever met Kirby Wilbur? He's the WA State Rep Party Chair and it's not his "wig" that's big. More like "all of him".

 

[Stretch]

Pasco caucus here today. My precinct had 22 people show up! We believe it was the largest group there in representation, however there was a grand turnout overall. I really should have taken a photo. Ron Paul won the straw poll, so I walked away a happy man.