You did not plagiarize - you quoted....and I thank you and WW for that specific reference/detail.
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NC OC experience reports
- Thread starter glockaholic
- Start date
ok, i'm sorry, but which event are we discussing? WW's encounter w/alcoholic beverages and open carry? or trailkiller91's query about the buggy festival?
if trailkerller91's, then BC, to pull your definition of event completely out of context, especially since the entire paragraph your definition is taken from, 14.269.3 pertaining to 'assemblages and establishments where alcoholic beverages are served' is an incorrect grasp of the term 'event' and truly does not fit what trailkiller91's query was about in regard to the buggy festival.
trailkiller91's comment about parades and such falls under 14.277.2 of the NC statutes discusses 'weapons at parades, etc., prohibited' and the statute provides clarification in (c) for CHP carry at these situations as changed 1 Oct 2013. http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/Site...1208:2jn1cirfegg&cof=FORID:11&q=parades&sa=Go
Trailkiller91's shouldn't give a rat's pa-tu-di if the buggy festival has an event permit since those are not generally available for review by the public so the OP's main concern s/b, as WW correctly point out...is admission charged.
I don't mind getting thoroughly confused but for goodness sake, at least keep some semblance of context flow and quit mixing kumquats with tobacco.
BTW trailkiller91, how was the festival?
ipse
if trailkerller91's, then BC, to pull your definition of event completely out of context, especially since the entire paragraph your definition is taken from, 14.269.3 pertaining to 'assemblages and establishments where alcoholic beverages are served' is an incorrect grasp of the term 'event' and truly does not fit what trailkiller91's query was about in regard to the buggy festival.
trailkiller91's comment about parades and such falls under 14.277.2 of the NC statutes discusses 'weapons at parades, etc., prohibited' and the statute provides clarification in (c) for CHP carry at these situations as changed 1 Oct 2013. http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/Site...1208:2jn1cirfegg&cof=FORID:11&q=parades&sa=Go
Trailkiller91's shouldn't give a rat's pa-tu-di if the buggy festival has an event permit since those are not generally available for review by the public so the OP's main concern s/b, as WW correctly point out...is admission charged.
I don't mind getting thoroughly confused but for goodness sake, at least keep some semblance of context flow and quit mixing kumquats with tobacco.
BTW trailkiller91, how was the festival?
ipse
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carolina guy
Regular Member
Finally got back at the keyboard again and had a chance to look, and I have to disagree on this one...the CHP is ONLY for carrying concealed, and per § 14-415.11(c2):
If you are OC and drinking, if the person has a CHP is irrelevant.
I think this is backed up by this scenario not being mentioned in the violations section:
Granted (and as a valid disclaimer) IANAL and this is just my opinion, but the law (IMO) doesn't cover this scenario at all--if you have permission to be where the alcohol is sold & served and are OC, you are good.
carolina guy
Regular Member
Defined nowhere I can find in NCGS, so I side with WW, the normal dictionary definition applies.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
If the statute CHP is ONLY for carrying concealed a CHP holder CANNOT OC in a establishment that serves alcohol unless getting permission. Which has been my contention all along. If the CHP does apply for OC in a alcohol serving restaurant then clearly those restrictions apply.
SO I stand by my claim, a OCer who gets permission can consume alcohol while OCing. A CHP holder who does not get permission cannot consume alcohol while using the card to enter the restaurant whether concealed or open.
SO I stand by my claim, a OCer who gets permission can consume alcohol while OCing. A CHP holder who does not get permission cannot consume alcohol while using the card to enter the restaurant whether concealed or open.
carolina guy
Regular Member
With the part in Red, I completely and totally agree! Perhaps I was thinking the the OP was about drinking alcohol in general, not just in a place that charges admission and sold the alcohol in question. ??
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Sorry if I misled you, or confused. I am sure somebody from a certain group is NOW well aware of our loophole. He will try to change it so the CCer can drink, or find a way to keep the OCer from drinking. One of the early drafts removed the business giving permission, the section had a line through it, so I believe it was tried and failed. Probably too many business owners would be damned PO'd if they could not make decisions concerning their own private property.
I don't drink, never did like alcohol, but I do get rise out of the fact that we can indeed enjoy a meal in a restaurant without the coveted privilege card. Hopefully more business owners decide to increase their business, and support the 2A, while giving the rest of us the freedom to decide to eat where we please without begging the state for permission.
carolina guy
Regular Member
NP.
I won't even drive if I have a beer. I think it is a curious loophole as well, but since it is a Constitutional issue, I suppose they cannot really stop an OCer from drinking and carrying. 
papa bear
Regular Member
NP.
CG, i will say i don't drink alcohol at all. but i will say this that having a beer and driving is no problem. don't let the PSA scare you. it used to be they would say "drunk driving", now they are saying don't drink period.
carolina guy
Regular Member
I don't let it scare me, but I look at it as a bad example for the kids, not to mention that I don't like to drive if I am not 100%...too many stupid people to take into account otherwise. At 265lbs, a beer doesn't have much effect on me.
Jamesm760
Regular Member
Finally!
After several of you posted experiences where someone thanked you for OCing, I can finally say, that I too got thanked for OCing. I was shopping at the Walmart in Salisbury and a man that appeared to be in his mid 40's thanked me. He had a "Tyranny response team" Tshirt on.
After several of you posted experiences where someone thanked you for OCing, I can finally say, that I too got thanked for OCing. I was shopping at the Walmart in Salisbury and a man that appeared to be in his mid 40's thanked me. He had a "Tyranny response team" Tshirt on.
papa bear
Regular Member
i just had a hilarious experience here in Surry county.
i had to drop a letter off at the Government/health office for my daughter. it went in a box there. unfortunately the box was on the inside and of course they had the dreaded no guns (concealed or other wise) on the door. so i said OK, and started hollering in the building to get someone to help me. some woman came out and started telling me if i was not allowed on the premises the i would have to do such and such. i said no ma'am. it ain't that i ain't allowed is that you have a bigoted and dangerous sign up, that discriminates again LACs, well she was hateful and said she would get the supervisor. i waited out side the door
supervisor came out and i pointed out that the sign was dangerous and wrong against the constitution. i pointed out to her the dangers of disarming the women that come there. she said she could see that but she didn't know weather it was a county, state, or federal law. at which she said would you like to speak to the manager. i said you know i actually would. since i didn't have anything better to do
now mind you i was all smiles, friendly and very polite. this lady was nice too. Oh and by the way i had two people pass us and gave thumbs up at what we were talking about
then the manager came out. we shook hands and introduced ourselves. he asked what he could help with. so i said why are you putting people in such danger. are you not aware that all successful mass shooting have happened in GFZs. he was caught off guard. not to mention, i said, of the women that would carry here that were in danger but would face the choice of coming in and risking their lives to get help
plus the fact that this is very anti constitutional, especially in a public building. he didn't argue but told me that if i would write him a letter he would see that the county commissioners would get it. all in all very good conversation, BTW there were several employees that came out too. i should have asked if they were scared why were they out there. i asked him if they had armed guards inside to help if something did happen (i had a answer for him either way) but he said no they had a procedure. which he said was lock down. i made the comment what good would that do you if the shooter was already inside. he looked thoughtful, and some of the employees nodded their heads
but here is the funny part. after about 15 or twenty minutes. here comes two sheriffs from the inside (i assume they came in the other side), then came three town cops, four marked cars and three unmarked sheriff cars. there were about a dozen uniformed LEOs and four plains clothes there. i thought this was Hilarius. any way, I shook hands with as many of them as i could. and we just explained what we were doing. i asked why so many turned out. they said they got a call of a MWG at the government building. so they didn't want to take chances. i asked if that happened often. one said pretty much. i found out later it only happened once when a guy didn't see the sign and walked in. but i would bet you it happens a lot when they can't see the gun. but i regress.
back to the story. people started coming out with their cell Phones taking video, like the guys that gave me the thumbs up, and others too. like i said i thought it was real funny. My first MWG call too. makes me proud.
i hung around there for a good while to give the spiel about 2ndA rights and dangerous GFZ, and about Niki Goeser. the cops started going away by then. i mention GRNC, but i didn't have my truck so i didn't have any literature on me. i also didn't get a recording because i couldn't figure out this stupid smart phone of mine.i need to fix that. after the manager went and got his card for me. i asked if i was being detained and if i was free to go the couple of cops that were there laughed and said, why sure. we all left on good terms
PS if any one would like to help me write the letter i would appreciate it
edit; i got to thinking if it took them twenty minutes to get there (and they were all in town) then how much damage could i have done. oh and i also talked about how even the state of NC said i was OK to CC. shouldn't that be an endorsement
i had to drop a letter off at the Government/health office for my daughter. it went in a box there. unfortunately the box was on the inside and of course they had the dreaded no guns (concealed or other wise) on the door. so i said OK, and started hollering in the building to get someone to help me. some woman came out and started telling me if i was not allowed on the premises the i would have to do such and such. i said no ma'am. it ain't that i ain't allowed is that you have a bigoted and dangerous sign up, that discriminates again LACs, well she was hateful and said she would get the supervisor. i waited out side the door
supervisor came out and i pointed out that the sign was dangerous and wrong against the constitution. i pointed out to her the dangers of disarming the women that come there. she said she could see that but she didn't know weather it was a county, state, or federal law. at which she said would you like to speak to the manager. i said you know i actually would. since i didn't have anything better to do
now mind you i was all smiles, friendly and very polite. this lady was nice too. Oh and by the way i had two people pass us and gave thumbs up at what we were talking about
then the manager came out. we shook hands and introduced ourselves. he asked what he could help with. so i said why are you putting people in such danger. are you not aware that all successful mass shooting have happened in GFZs. he was caught off guard. not to mention, i said, of the women that would carry here that were in danger but would face the choice of coming in and risking their lives to get help
plus the fact that this is very anti constitutional, especially in a public building. he didn't argue but told me that if i would write him a letter he would see that the county commissioners would get it. all in all very good conversation, BTW there were several employees that came out too. i should have asked if they were scared why were they out there. i asked him if they had armed guards inside to help if something did happen (i had a answer for him either way) but he said no they had a procedure. which he said was lock down. i made the comment what good would that do you if the shooter was already inside. he looked thoughtful, and some of the employees nodded their heads
but here is the funny part. after about 15 or twenty minutes. here comes two sheriffs from the inside (i assume they came in the other side), then came three town cops, four marked cars and three unmarked sheriff cars. there were about a dozen uniformed LEOs and four plains clothes there. i thought this was Hilarius. any way, I shook hands with as many of them as i could. and we just explained what we were doing. i asked why so many turned out. they said they got a call of a MWG at the government building. so they didn't want to take chances. i asked if that happened often. one said pretty much. i found out later it only happened once when a guy didn't see the sign and walked in. but i would bet you it happens a lot when they can't see the gun. but i regress.
back to the story. people started coming out with their cell Phones taking video, like the guys that gave me the thumbs up, and others too. like i said i thought it was real funny. My first MWG call too. makes me proud.
i hung around there for a good while to give the spiel about 2ndA rights and dangerous GFZ, and about Niki Goeser. the cops started going away by then. i mention GRNC, but i didn't have my truck so i didn't have any literature on me. i also didn't get a recording because i couldn't figure out this stupid smart phone of mine.i need to fix that. after the manager went and got his card for me. i asked if i was being detained and if i was free to go the couple of cops that were there laughed and said, why sure. we all left on good terms
PS if any one would like to help me write the letter i would appreciate it
edit; i got to thinking if it took them twenty minutes to get there (and they were all in town) then how much damage could i have done. oh and i also talked about how even the state of NC said i was OK to CC. shouldn't that be an endorsement
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Assuming the proprietor was OK with OC, then all this privilege card holder has to do is put my shirt behind the butt of my gun instead of over it, and order a beer. If the proprietor is not an OC advocate, but has not posted his business, then I'm also good as long as I don't order a beer. For those without a privilege card, you have the option of leaving or leaving your gun in your vehicle.
OBTW, I don't carry when I am drinking.
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
That is the point of this conversation, a person without a privilege card, DOES NOT have to leave or leave the gun in their vehicle. As long as the manager or owner give permission, and they can have a drink with their meal. And save the 90 dollars for the privilege card, plus the cost of the class, to pay for dinner a few times. :banana:
I figure that savings pays for four meals for the wife and I. If as I have heard classes run around 100 dollars.
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carolina guy
Regular Member
I guess I still do not understand where you get the feeling that simple possession of the CHP, without the use of it by CC means that the LAC loses the ability to OC as supported by law and the Constitution. The NCGS does not say this in any manner that I have seen.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
The law clearly states without permission that carry in a business that sells and serves alcohol is prohibited. BUT the change allowed carry with, drum roll, a CHP, without getting permission. Granted the business is not posted. There has been no case law YET to straiten this out, we do know that cc and OC are completely separate in the state constitution. OC is a right, CC is a privilege.
Until the matter is cleared up it is OC at your own risk. But that was not the issue here, it was consumption of alcohol while using a CHP to enter a business that serves while carrying. Since without the owners permission the carrier must rely on the CC they would have to follow the CC rules, IMO. And it was stated in the post I replied to that OCers, without the coveted card, had to leave their guns in the vehicle, which is not true.
The thing is most privilege card holders do not feel they have to get permission, they are special remember. In fact every person I know of before the change in the law with a CHP IGNORED the restriction, because who was going to know anyway. They entered and they drank, and in some cases later were arrested for other things. This has been pointed out by the NY times and the Brady bunch. I once had a exchange with some of the CC crowd pointed out that in fact it was the CC people that were more likely to be drunks, than OC people. Brady bunch had NO stats on OC bad behavior in NC. Actually there is very little mention of bad OC behavior nationwide. There is little OC bad behavior in Virginia where it has been legal to OC in a serving restaurant and drink for years.
bc.cruiser
Regular Member
Let's see if I got this right:
Assuming the business is not posted.
By current law, a CHP is an admission ticket with no further requirement to interact with the person in charge. It does not matter if the CHP holder is CC or OC (The law only states that the person must possess a CHP; no mode of carry is specified). This person may not consume alcohol.
If an OCer asks permission of the person in charge to enter, and permission is granted, then the OCer may also enter. Since he is there by invitation of the person in charge, and is not CCing, he may consume alcohol.
The CHP holder who came in OC could do likewise IF he specifically asked the person in charge for permission to enter. In this case the CHP itself becomes a non-issue.
WW, do I have it right?
As stated previously, there is not yet case law to clarify the word "event" in 14-269.3(b)(3) or the wording of the first sentence of (b)(5).
Assuming the business is not posted.
By current law, a CHP is an admission ticket with no further requirement to interact with the person in charge. It does not matter if the CHP holder is CC or OC (The law only states that the person must possess a CHP; no mode of carry is specified). This person may not consume alcohol.
If an OCer asks permission of the person in charge to enter, and permission is granted, then the OCer may also enter. Since he is there by invitation of the person in charge, and is not CCing, he may consume alcohol.
The CHP holder who came in OC could do likewise IF he specifically asked the person in charge for permission to enter. In this case the CHP itself becomes a non-issue.
WW, do I have it right?
As stated previously, there is not yet case law to clarify the word "event" in 14-269.3(b)(3) or the wording of the first sentence of (b)(5).
carolina guy
Regular Member
+1 I was only really concerned if you thought that even with the permission of the owner/manager, that someone who has a CHP and in OC would not be allowed.
Gotcha. The CHP holders that ignore the signs while CC, are not really being LAC's are they?
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carolina guy
Regular Member
+1 That's my take on it...