NC OC experience reports

[WalkingWolf]

sorry WOLF, i didn't understand. did you mean, drinking while carrying or not carrying?

BTW, i don't drink either, but i do make it. i come from a long line of "micro-biologists"

There is no restriction on alcohol consumption while open carrying. The is a restriction while carrying utilizing a CHP.

 

[WalkingWolf]

On 87 or 210?

On 87...

 

[papa bear]

There is no restriction on alcohol consumption while open carrying. The is a restriction while carrying utilizing a CHP.

I did not know that. is that CC with a CHP, or OC with a CHP, or OC without a CHP?

 

[carolina guy]

I did not know that. is that CC with a CHP, or OC with a CHP, or OC without a CHP?

OC with or without a chp

 

[NC-Heel]

I thought we had an "encounters w/ LEO" thread but I don't see it so I will put it here. Not an open carry event per say but it went like this:

I was in W-S last night at a Friend's business. She has a small knick-knack/garden shop that does live music on Thursdays in the "Wine Garden". After everyone had left we were sitting in the garden enjoying the weather and each others company till 12:30 am. When we went to leave I was parked across the street in a restaurant's parking lot. Two other vehicles are leaving as I see a WSPD cruiser turn the corner. I still haven't unlocked my door as he pulls in behind me and stops. No "blue lights" so I figure once I get in the car and attempt to leave he will move. As I crank the car I see his flashlight and roll down the window. He asks what I'm doing there. I respond that I just left the business across the street. He asks me what business and what do they do? Really! He then asks for my ID. I respond, "Why do you need that? Have I did something wrong?"

He says it is suspicious that I am sitting in my car in a parking lot of a closed business. I respond that he saw me crossing the street and that 2 other cars left at the same time as I was entering my vehicle.

At this point I think I am in a motor vehicle with the engine running so I probably can't refuse to ID myself. Also at this point, in my mind, it has become a "formal contact" with law enforcement and I am obligated to notify him of my concealed carry and produce ID and CCP upon demand. We all know how blurry the NC statute is on when you have to announce you are Concealing. I don't announce it to any officer till the interaction becomes official. Turn your blue lights on or ask me to identify myself with cause. The statute gives no time frame or uses the word immediately. If I informed every officer I see or say hey to every day it would get old. From the NCDOJ website

To possess a concealed handgun in North Carolina, you must:

Carry your permit and a valid form of identification with you at all times.
Disclose the fact that you have a valid concealed handgun permit when you are approached or addressed by any law enforcement officer in North Carolina.
Inform the officer that you are in possession of a concealed handgun.
Present both the permit and valid identification at the request of an officer

I say, "I have a firearm". I then reach for my ID as he says, "Isn't that something you should have told me when I walked up?" I never said I was carrying concealed but he then says, "Have you got a permit too?' As I produce both from my wallet. He says, "Didn't they tell you in the class that you have to notify an officer when they approach you?" I respond, "only when the contact is within the official duties of the officer and I didn't consider it official till you asked for ID. I didn't think you had any basis to stop and ask me what I was doing."

After I said that I didn't think he had any probable cause his response was, "I can just give you back your ID, everything that has happened here was consensual." I held out my hand and he DROPPED my ID and CCP into my hand and he said, "Sorry".

He got in his car and pulled down the parking lot a bit and backed into a parking spot as I left.

 

[carolina guy]

I thought we had an "encounters w/ LEO" thread but I don't see it so I will put it here. Not an open carry event per say but it went like this:

I was in W-S last night at a Friend's business. She has a small knick-knack/garden shop that does live music on Thursdays in the "Wine Garden". After everyone had left we were sitting in the garden enjoying the weather and each others company till 12:30 am. When we went to leave I was parked across the street in a restaurant's parking lot. Two other vehicles are leaving as I see a WSPD cruiser turn the corner. I still haven't unlocked my door as he pulls in behind me and stops. No "blue lights" so I figure once I get in the car and attempt to leave he will move. As I crank the car I see his flashlight and roll down the window. He asks what I'm doing there. I respond that I just left the business across the street. He asks me what business and what do they do? Really! He then asks for my ID. I respond, "Why do you need that? Have I did something wrong?"

He says it is suspicious that I am sitting in my car in a parking lot of a closed business. I respond that he saw me crossing the street and that 2 other cars left at the same time as I was entering my vehicle.

At this point I think I am in a motor vehicle with the engine running so I probably can't refuse to ID myself. Also at this point, in my mind, it has become a "formal contact" with law enforcement and I am obligated to notify him of my concealed carry and produce ID and CCP upon demand. We all know how blurry the NC statute is on when you have to announce you are Concealing. I don't announce it to any officer till the interaction becomes official. Turn your blue lights on or ask me to identify myself with cause. The statute gives no time frame or uses the word immediately. If I informed every officer I see or say hey to every day it would get old. From the NCDOJ website

To possess a concealed handgun in North Carolina, you must:

Carry your permit and a valid form of identification with you at all times.
Disclose the fact that you have a valid concealed handgun permit when you are approached or addressed by any law enforcement officer in North Carolina.
Inform the officer that you are in possession of a concealed handgun.
Present both the permit and valid identification at the request of an officer

I say, "I have a firearm". I then reach for my ID as he says, "Isn't that something you should have told me when I walked up?" I never said I was carrying concealed but he then says, "Have you got a permit too?' As I produce both from my wallet. He says, "Didn't they tell you in the class that you have to notify an officer when they approach you?" I respond, "only when the contact is within the official duties of the officer and I didn't consider it official till you asked for ID. I didn't think you had any basis to stop and ask me what I was doing."

After I said that I didn't think he had any probable cause his response was, "I can just give you back your ID, everything that has happened here was consensual." I held out my hand and he DROPPED my ID and CCP into my hand and he said, "Sorry".

He got in his car and pulled down the parking lot a bit and backed into a parking spot as I left.

+1 Well done!

 

[WalkingWolf]

I did not know that. is that CC with a CHP, or OC with a CHP, or OC without a CHP?

From the way I read the statute is if YOU are using your CHP whether concealed or using it to lawfully enter a business that sells alcohol for consumption you cannot drink. BUT if you are on the property with the owner, proprietor, manager's permission the CHP is moot, not needed, and there are no statutes(that I know of) that make it illegal to OC and consume alcohol.

So with permission, and without a CHP I can legally drink in an establishment while OCing. If a CHP holder does without getting permission they would be in violation of the law, IMO.

 

[carolina guy]

From the way I read the statute is if YOU are using your CHP whether concealed or using it to lawfully enter a business that sells alcohol for consumption you cannot drink. BUT if you are on the property with the owner, proprietor, manager's permission the CHP is moot, not needed, and there are no statutes(that I know of) that make it illegal to OC and consume alcohol.

So with permission, and without a CHP I can legally drink in an establishment while OCing. If a CHP holder does without getting permission they would be in violation of the law, IMO.

So, you are saying that simply possessing a CHP but OC at the time, you cannot drink w/o the owner of the establishments permission?

 

[WalkingWolf]

So, you are saying that simply possessing a CHP but OC at the time, you cannot drink w/o the owner of the establishments permission?

That is the way I take the statute, that using a CHP one of the privileges a person gives up is consuming alcohol. If the OCer gets actual permission the CHP is moot. Remember the new statute only allows for entering a establishment that serves alcohol by two methods. Permission or CHP, if the latter I would think that a person must abide by the CHP rules.

And we still do not know how the courts would handle OCing with a CHP in a serving restaurant, IMO it no where states that OC is now acceptable, only carry with a CHP. That could be interpreted two ways by the courts.

 

[trailkiller91]

Guys I have a quick question regarding legality of carrying. I understand that it is illegal to carry at events occurring in public places such as parades, funerals or public demonstrations, does this same law apply to things such as the Carthage Buggy Festival or the Cameron Antique Fair? Basically street fairs where no fee is charged, any insight is more than welcome.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Guys I have a quick question regarding legality of carrying. I understand that it is illegal to carry at events occurring in public places such as parades, funerals or public demonstrations, does this same law apply to things such as the Carthage Buggy Festival or the Cameron Antique Fair? Basically street fairs where no fee is charged, any insight is more than welcome.

My opinion is it is legal as long as admission is not charged. But I am not a lawyer, I do interpret the law the way the law is written.

 

[trailkiller91]

That's the way I see it. I may not carry there just because the more I think about the buggy festival is mostly situated around the old and new courthouses.

 

[Grapeshot]

That's the way I see it. I may not carry there just because the more I think about the buggy festival is mostly situated around the old and new courthouses.

What does being around (near?) the courthouse have to do with it?

There is no admitance fee, no charge for the entertainment, even the children's rides are free - and found no restrictive rules regarding carrying. So why would anyone disarm?

 

[papa bear]

WOLF,still trying to digest the drinking and carry thing. sounds right though.

as for the festival thing, you guys can correct me if i am wrong. nut wouldn't the area still be public property. the permit goes to the operators just so they be there. they do not own the property. so public carry still applies

 

[trailkiller91]

What does being around (near?) the courthouse have to do with it?

There is no admitance fee, no charge for the entertainment, even the children's rides are free - and found no restrictive rules regarding carrying. So why would anyone disarm?

I was under the notion that since it is a government building I wasn't supposed to be on the grounds of such?

 

[Grapeshot]

What does being around (near?) the courthouse have to do with it?

There is no admitance fee, no charge for the entertainment, even the children's rides are free - and found no restrictive rules regarding carrying. So why would anyone disarm?

I was under the notion that since it is a government building I wasn't supposed to be on the grounds of such?

I see nothing to indicate this is held on government property. My point was being near doesn't mean anything.

 

[solus]

first the standard preamble...i am not an attorney.

second: the attorney general's little brochure: http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299-a2a7-4ae5-99fd-9018262f64ac/2007-NC-Firearms-gun-Laws.aspx

third: nc statute location: http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/statutes/statutes.asp

summary of said reading material...

unless you are in or on certain STATE properties you may carry unless it is posted.

As much as the county municipalities wished it so, the state statutes do not apply to their facilities/properties, unless it is posted.

please do not ask the local sheriff et al., as they will i am sure say 'no, you may not carry!'

will you be hassled by someone who is spooked by someone carrying a firearm...probably!

bottom line it is good you wish to be aware of the restrictions, but go enjoy the event you wish to enjoy.

ipse

 

[bc.cruiser]

You may consider checking the city/town/village ordinances. Firearms info will normally be under Parks and Recreation or Parades and Demonstrations. If an event is held in town limits, an event permit is normally required. The person holding the permit determines what is or is not allowed, and since that person must be present during the event, your permission slip is always available.

 

[Grapeshot]

You may consider checking the city/town/village ordinances. Firearms info will normally be under Parks and Recreation or Parades and Demonstrations. If an event is held in town limits, an event permit is normally required. The person holding the permit determines what is or is not allowed, and since that person must be present during the event, your permission slip is always available.

What is the applicable definition of an "event"?

 

[bc.cruiser]

Allow me to plagiarize:

§ 14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269.
(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.
(3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
(4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
(5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c). (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2013-369, s. 3.)

event noun

1
something that happens <dinnertime was devoted to talking over the day's events, not to watching television>
Synonyms affair, circumstance, episode, hap, happening, incident, occasion, occurrence, thing
Related Words coincidence, co-occurrence, fluke, freak; landmark, milepost, milestone, page, phenomenon, turning point; adventure, experience, time; happenchance, happenstance; accident, crisis, emergency, juncture; achievement, deed, exploit, feat; news, tidings
2
something that might happen <in the event of rain, graduation ceremonies will be held indoors>
Synonyms case, contingence, contingency, contingent, eventuality, possibility
Related Words probability; accident, chance, hap, hazard, risk
3
a competitive encounter between individuals or groups carried on for amusement, exercise, or in pursuit of a prize <figure skating is usually one of the most popular events in the winter Olympics>
Synonyms bout, competition, contest, event, match, matchup, meet, sweepstakes (also sweep-stake), tournament, tourney
Related Words athletics, sport; battle, conflict, scrimmage, skirmish, struggle, tug-of-war, tussle; championship, national(s); final, nightcap, play-off, semifinal; derby, field day, gymkhana, open, outing; biathlon, decathlon, heptathlon, pentathlon, triathlon; marathon, race, ultramarathon; heat, round, run, set; rally, volley; round-robin, rubber, runoff, sudden death; dead heat, photo finish, seesaw; classic
4
a social gathering <the mayor's evenings are often tied up with one event after another>
Synonyms affair, bash, binge, blast, blowout, do, event, fete (or fête), function, get-together, powwow, reception, shindig
Related Words benefit, fund-raiser; ball, dance, formal, prom; celebration, gala, occasion; bacchanal, bacchanalia, orgy, saturnalia; bake, clambake, cocktail party, hen party, house party, housewarming, icebreaker, kaffeeklatsch, kegger (also keg party), klatch (also klatsch), masquerade, meet and greet, mixer, salon, shower, social, soiree (or soirée), stag, supper, symposium, tea, tea party

From what I gather it would be hard to make a case for prosecution since dinner clearly is a event, and I was clearly given permission. This is not the first time this has come up. In fact a couple of years ago GRNC tried to have that particular line stricken from the statute. The attempt came up AFTER a OC dinner at a restaurant in Hillsborough that serves alcohol. IIRC the dinner was cleared by Hillsborough police and the county prosecutor as legal.

All in all I am not too concerned and in this case I would be willing to step up to the challenge, the law is clear, and the definition is clear. If the NCGA wants it to not mean what it says, then they need to change it.