More offense

[solus]

shame you have me on ignore...

snippp'n between us not withstanding, "S" what credibility, prestige, and high regard i personally held towards you regarding your commitment to KY's advocacy activities has fallen to zero for publicly dragging another individual through the mud just to satisfy bolstering your EGO!

the audacity to believe you needed to publicly post your responce to someone's PM is egregious and truly beyond comprehension!

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks...snipp'
NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

(18) PRIVATE MESSAGES: The content of private messages are NOT completely private in that they may be reported to the administrator should the private messaging function be used to harass or spam another user. However, the content of private messages should not be posted publicly on the forum in an attempt to embarrass or discredit another member.

further you have flagrantly seen fit to also violate the rules of this august membership which is truly unconscionable for a gentleman of your stature and standing, you truly should be ashamed for these acts.

My response to PM from Ghost1958.

I am well acquainted with Rep. Goforth's request for an opinion from the AG's office. You see, he publicly asked Ky. gun owners that cared about their rights to meet him in the Rotunda of the Capitol and go with him to hand carry the request down the hall to the AG's office. Only a few of us bothered to show up. I don't remember seeing you there. You have terribly misrepresented the body of that request.
****************************************************************
This information I did not include in my PM.

I have in my hands at this moment my copy of Rep. Goforth's request for opinion of the AG. It bears little resemblance to what Mr. Ghost has presented it to be. I don't know if he is unable to understand what he was told or unable to read what is before him. It will not be long before the request is made public. Andy Beshear ignored this request until he could vacate the AG's office. I have been told that he left over 50 unanswered requests for opinion. Some of them were over six months old. David Cameron is having to work through them.

In any case, once the opinion is made public, it will be plain for all to see that Ghost1958 has bent everything in this request to suit his own narrative. It says nothing about the unconstitutionality of the CCDW program or the ability of the General Assembly to ban, not ban or regulate concealed weapons. The request prefaces the real question with a little less than two pages of quotes. Some from the Ky. constitution and even from the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act. It mentions the prohibition on open carry on college campuses and on school property, BY A PERSON WITH A KY. CCDW. It ONLY asks one question, which I hereby paraphrase, would it be constitutional to arrest or otherwise impede a person who possesses a Ky. CCDW for open carrying a firearm in any location within the Commonwealth of Ky. except private property or federally prohibited property?

Now you see, Rep. Goforth does not ask if the concealed carry law is unconstitutional, he doesn't say that he wants to challenge it or even imply that is his motive. He even uses the necessity of having a Ky. CCDW as a condition of his question, because he knows it is required near school property. I am expecting that, when this request becomes public, Ghost1958 will claim that he has been lied to or that he misunderstood. It has been my experience from dealing with both men, Representative Goforth is the much more honorable and truthful of the two. Since I have a copy of the request, I can tell you that it does not do what Ghost1958 says it does. Just to refresh your memory, here is what he wrote:
You might want to check with your buddy.
" Theres a plan here". The bill is designed to be challenged in court and defeated .
That however is the long way around the barn to get rid of the ccdw scam .
The bill cannot stand a court challenge, which then beings up the issue, which apparently a AG opinion was requested about the unconstitutionality of the General assembly creating a ccdw in the first place which it has no ky constitutional power to do.
Only to ban or not ban CC. Period full stop.
At that point ccdw would be declared unconstitutional. At least that is the apparent thinking.

However it's much simpler to simply repeal all CCDW regulations, create a cc card with no requirements to get for out of state travel and be done with it.
Complete BS on top of lies on top of ignorance.

 

[gutshot II]

Really. By who is it required?
The state is free to ignore any act of Congress it wishes. Safe schools act is an act of congress.

The state might be free to ignore acts of Congress but the individual is not. If you think you are, go open carry into a school and see what happens.

I highly doubt the fed is going to send federal agents to patrol all the schools in Ky when the state itself passes a law allowing carry at schools.

They don't have to patrol ALL the schools in Ky. They just need to know about you carrying a gun into ONE of them.

 

[Ghost1958]

shame you have me on ignore...

snippp'n between us not withstanding, "S" what credibility, prestige, and high regard i personally held towards you regarding your commitment to KY's advocacy activities has fallen to zero for publicly dragging another individual through the mud just to satisfy bolstering your EGO!

the audacity to believe you needed to publicly post your responce to someone's PM is egregious and truly beyond comprehension!

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks...snipp'
NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

(18) PRIVATE MESSAGES: The content of private messages are NOT completely private in that they may be reported to the administrator should the private messaging function be used to harass or spam another user. However, the content of private messages should not be posted publicly on the forum in an attempt to embarrass or discredit another member.

further you have flagrantly seen fit to also violate the rules of this august membership which is truly unconscionable for a gentleman of your stature and standing, you truly should be ashamed for these acts.

My response to PM from Ghost1958.

I am well acquainted with Rep. Goforth's request for an opinion from the AG's office. You see, he publicly asked Ky. gun owners that cared about their rights to meet him in the Rotunda of the Capitol and go with him to hand carry the request down the hall to the AG's office. Only a few of us bothered to show up. I don't remember seeing you there. You have terribly misrepresented the body of that request.
****************************************************************
This information I did not include in my PM.

I have in my hands at this moment my copy of Rep. Goforth's request for opinion of the AG. It bears little resemblance to what Mr. Ghost has presented it to be. I don't know if he is unable to understand what he was told or unable to read what is before him. It will not be long before the request is made public. Andy Beshear ignored this request until he could vacate the AG's office. I have been told that he left over 50 unanswered requests for opinion. Some of them were over six months old. David Cameron is having to work through them.

In any case, once the opinion is made public, it will be plain for all to see that Ghost1958 has bent everything in this request to suit his own narrative. It says nothing about the unconstitutionality of the CCDW program or the ability of the General Assembly to ban, not ban or regulate concealed weapons. The request prefaces the real question with a little less than two pages of quotes. Some from the Ky. constitution and even from the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act. It mentions the prohibition on open carry on college campuses and on school property, BY A PERSON WITH A KY. CCDW. It ONLY asks one question, which I hereby paraphrase, would it be constitutional to arrest or otherwise impede a person who possesses a Ky. CCDW for open carrying a firearm in any location within the Commonwealth of Ky. except private property or federally prohibited property?

Now you see, Rep. Goforth does not ask if the concealed carry law is unconstitutional, he doesn't say that he wants to challenge it or even imply that is his motive. He even uses the necessity of having a Ky. CCDW as a condition of his question, because he knows it is required near school property. I am expecting that, when this request becomes public, Ghost1958 will claim that he has been lied to or that he misunderstood. It has been my experience from dealing with both men, Representative Goforth is the much more honorable and truthful of the two. Since I have a copy of the request, I can tell you that it does not do what Ghost1958 says it does. Just to refresh your memory, here is what he wrote:
You might want to check with your buddy.
" Theres a plan here". The bill is designed to be challenged in court and defeated .
That however is the long way around the barn to get rid of the ccdw scam .
The bill cannot stand a court challenge, which then beings up the issue, which apparently a AG opinion was requested about the unconstitutionality of the General assembly creating a ccdw in the first place which it has no ky constitutional power to do.
Only to ban or not ban CC. Period full stop.
At that point ccdw would be declared unconstitutional. At least that is the apparent thinking.

However it's much simpler to simply repeal all CCDW regulations, create a cc card with no requirements to get for out of state travel and be done with it.
Complete BS on top of lies on top of ignorance.

You would do well to shut up and apologize
One you've inferred things I did not.


2 You forget I have the entire conversation with Goforth on hand .
I havent pasted it here , out of respect for him. But sir either he lied or you are.

I took the man at what he inferred to me.
In a private conversation.

Take my advise and drop this before it gets really ugly for all concerned .

My respect for officials of either party only goes so far. So stop pushing.

When non permitted conceal carriers are informed of their 2nd class citizenship regarding their RTKABA unless they pay the piper this bill has a snowball's chance in hell of even getting a vote.

Trust I and my friends will be sure to inform as many across the state as possible.

 

[Ghost1958]

The Ky. State Police do not get to overrule federal law.

Eh yes the state of ky is free to ignore , not recognize, and refuse to enforce ANY federal decree of congress.

 

[color of law]

gutshot II refuses to accept the fact that the Supreme Court found 18 USC 922(q) unconstitutional, see U.S. v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995) and reaffirming that decision in U.S. v. Morrison, 529 U.S. 598 (2000). Maybe you should have Mr. Jaeger explain that to you. And you also know that no one has ever been prosecuted under 18 USC 922(q) since Lopez struck it down.

 

[garyh9900]

My response to PM from Ghost1958.

I am well acquainted with Rep. Goforth's request for an opinion from the AG's office. You see, he publicly asked Ky. gun owners that cared about their rights to meet him in the Rotunda of the Capitol and go with him to hand carry the request down the hall to the AG's office. Only a few of us bothered to show up. I don't remember seeing you there. You have terribly misrepresented the body of that request.
****************************************************************
This information I did not include in my PM.

I have in my hands at this moment my copy of Rep. Goforth's request for opinion of the AG. It bears little resemblance to what Mr. Ghost has presented it to be. I don't know if he is unable to understand what he was told or unable to read what is before him. It will not be long before the request is made public. Andy Beshear ignored this request until he could vacate the AG's office. I have been told that he left over 50 unanswered requests for opinion. Some of them were over six months old. David Cameron is having to work through them.

In any case, once the opinion is made public, it will be plain for all to see that Ghost1958 has bent everything in this request to suit his own narrative. It says nothing about the unconstitutionality of the CCDW program or the ability of the General Assembly to ban, not ban or regulate concealed weapons. The request prefaces the real question with a little less than two pages of quotes. Some from the Ky. constitution and even from the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act. It mentions the prohibition on open carry on college campuses and on school property, BY A PERSON WITH A KY. CCDW. It ONLY asks one question, which I hereby paraphrase, would it be constitutional to arrest or otherwise impede a person who possesses a Ky. CCDW for open carrying a firearm in any location within the Commonwealth of Ky. except private property or federally prohibited property?

Now you see, Rep. Goforth does not ask if the concealed carry law is unconstitutional, he doesn't say that he wants to challenge it or even imply that is his motive. He even uses the necessity of having a Ky. CCDW as a condition of his question, because he knows it is required near school property. I am expecting that, when this request becomes public, Ghost1958 will claim that he has been lied to or that he misunderstood. It has been my experience from dealing with both men, Representative Goforth is the much more honorable and truthful of the two. Since I have a copy of the request, I can tell you that it does not do what Ghost1958 says it does. Just to refresh your memory, here is what he wrote:
You might want to check with your buddy.
" Theres a plan here". The bill is designed to be challenged in court and defeated .
That however is the long way around the barn to get rid of the ccdw scam .
The bill cannot stand a court challenge, which then beings up the issue, which apparently a AG opinion was requested about the unconstitutionality of the General assembly creating a ccdw in the first place which it has no ky constitutional power to do.
Only to ban or not ban CC. Period full stop.
At that point ccdw would be declared unconstitutional. At least that is the apparent thinking.

However it's much simpler to simply repeal all CCDW regulations, create a cc card with no requirements to get for out of state travel and be done with it.
Complete BS on top of lies on top of ignorance.

I’m pretty sure ghost1958 graduated magna cum laude from the Google School of Law.

 

[Ghost1958]

I’m pretty sure ghost1958 graduated magna cum laude from the Google School of Law.

My response to PM from Ghost1958.

I am well acquainted with Rep. Goforth's request for an opinion from the AG's office. You see, he publicly asked Ky. gun owners that cared about their rights to meet him in the Rotunda of the Capitol and go with him to hand carry the request down the hall to the AG's office. Only a few of us bothered to show up. I don't remember seeing you there. You have terribly misrepresented the body of that request.
****************************************************************
This information I did not include in my PM.

I have in my hands at this moment my copy of Rep. Goforth's request for opinion of the AG. It bears little resemblance to what Mr. Ghost has presented it to be. I don't know if he is unable to understand what he was told or unable to read what is before him. It will not be long before the request is made public. Andy Beshear ignored this request until he could vacate the AG's office. I have been told that he left over 50 unanswered requests for opinion. Some of them were over six months old. David Cameron is having to work through them.

In any case, once the opinion is made public, it will be plain for all to see that Ghost1958 has bent everything in this request to suit his own narrative. It says nothing about the unconstitutionality of the CCDW program or the ability of the General Assembly to ban, not ban or regulate concealed weapons. The request prefaces the real question with a little less than two pages of quotes. Some from the Ky. constitution and even from the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act. It mentions the prohibition on open carry on college campuses and on school property, BY A PERSON WITH A KY. CCDW. It ONLY asks one question, which I hereby paraphrase, would it be constitutional to arrest or otherwise impede a person who possesses a Ky. CCDW for open carrying a firearm in any location within the Commonwealth of Ky. except private property or federally prohibited property?

Now you see, Rep. Goforth does not ask if the concealed carry law is unconstitutional, he doesn't say that he wants to challenge it or even imply that is his motive. He even uses the necessity of having a Ky. CCDW as a condition of his question, because he knows it is required near school property. I am expecting that, when this request becomes public, Ghost1958 will claim that he has been lied to or that he misunderstood. It has been my experience from dealing with both men, Representative Goforth is the much more honorable and truthful of the two. Since I have a copy of the request, I can tell you that it does not do what Ghost1958 says it does. Just to refresh your memory, here is what he wrote:
You might want to check with your buddy.
" Theres a plan here". The bill is designed to be challenged in court and defeated .
That however is the long way around the barn to get rid of the ccdw scam .
The bill cannot stand a court challenge, which then beings up the issue, which apparently a AG opinion was requested about the unconstitutionality of the General assembly creating a ccdw in the first place which it has no ky constitutional power to do.
Only to ban or not ban CC. Period full stop.
At that point ccdw would be declared unconstitutional. At least that is the apparent thinking.

However it's much simpler to simply repeal all CCDW regulations, create a cc card with no requirements to get for out of state travel and be done with it.
Complete BS on top of lies on top of ignorance.

You apparently are not that acquainted with the intent behind the bill at all.

Or your a liar.

" There’s a plan here. If passed and it’s challenged and the ccdw requirement is dropped then nobody legal to carry shall ever be left defenseless. "

Those are not my WRITTEN words Gut.
3 guesses whose they are.

Now hush blustering about things you know little about.

 

[Ghost1958]

I’m pretty sure ghost1958 graduated magna cum laude from the Google School of Law.

You ever see me claim any law degree?

But I can read. And I can understand english. Especially from the horses mouth directed specifically to me

Now go sit in the corner with Gutshot and count KC3 memberships.

 

[gutshot II]

You apparently are not that acquainted with the intent behind the bill at all.

Or your a liar.

" There’s a plan here. If passed and it’s challenged and the ccdw requirement is dropped then nobody legal to carry shall ever be left defenseless. "

Those are not my WRITTEN words Gut.
3 guesses whose they are.

Now hush blustering about things you know little about.

Of course there is a plan. There always has been a plan. The plan is to incrementally walk back all restrictions on carry in Ky., year by year. That is the same plan that you have always opposed. Instead, you have consistently maintained that anything less than complete and immediate removal of all gun laws was unacceptable. Now, you want to be part of the plan.

 

[Ghost1958]

Of course there is a plan. There always has been a plan. The plan is to incrementally walk back all restrictions on carry in Ky., year by year. That is the same plan that you have always opposed. Instead, you have consistently maintained that anything less than complete and immediate removal of all gun laws was unacceptable. Now, you want to be part of the plan.

Can we dispense with me having to go back and copy you saying there was no such plan to this bill ?

And no I oppose this goofy , unconstitutional bill. I want no part of the plan it's being supposedly proposed for which is to be challenged and defeated.
Which you also just said isnt the case.

A bill repealing ccdw and ALL attached regulation that came with it is all that is needed and is a popular idea that would pass.

The opinion asked of the AG was if the legislature ever had authority to pass legislation to render one defenseless.

I do not know or care what the answer to that question was because it will change anytime the office holder changes.

 

[Ghost1958]

Crickets

 

[gutshot II]

Just contacted Goforth about 610.
Suggested he either drop the permit requirement which wont stand the first court challenge as it violates the right to equal treatment under the law, and put forth a clean bill. Or kiss this bill bye bye and please stop " helping " gun owners in ky if this is the best he can come up with.

Though I strongly suspect he didnt write the bill and probably barely knows what is in it.

If the bill violates "the right to equal treatment under the law", why don"t you just challenge the concealed carry law as it exists today? There are several lists of people that are given special authorities and privileges already written into it. Why wait for this one more? The fact is the statute has stood for 25 years and I doubt that it will go anywhere, no matter what stupidity Ghost1958 hurls at it. Ghost has been telling us for years about this great crowd of people that want to repeal concealed carry. Where are they? What are they waiting for? When will they act? Will they all die off before they can be made to act? Where are the rally's to support this group of constitutional heroes? Has anybody been asked to join the group? Is there a mailing address, website, Facebook page, twitter account or any other proof of their existence? What about an electric bill or water bill for their office? No? Must be sone supersecrete group. The truth is Ghost1958 does more damage to the gun movement than any democrats could do. I hate to give him too much credit but he is effective at wrecking advances in our gun rights. If he is not already on the payroll of George Soros or Mike Bloomberg, he should apply for a grant, he has earned it.

 

[OC for ME]

HB 610 will allow a person with a Ky. concealed carry license to carry at all locations in Ky. with the exception of courtroom, court proceeding or building solely occupied by a Court of Justice Courtroom, detention facilities, police stations, sheriff's office and bars. No other restrictions will exist. This means carry is allowed on K-12 school property, all local government buildings, airports outside the TSA checkpoints, all public college and university campuses. This will be special authority for holders of a physical Ky. CCDW, only. Constitutional carry will not be afforded the same privileges and out of state licenses will not be eligible for these new authorities. HB 610 is sponsored by Representative Robert Goforth. You can see HB 610 here: https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/record/20rs/hb610.html

Is this bill a stepping stone to repeal the CCW permit requirement for these places, less federal jurisdictions, altogether in KY...as the 2A demands? The potential downside of this bill is that OC will be legislatively phased out of existence...

 

[Ghost1958]

Is this bill a stepping stone to repeal the CCW permit requirement for these places, less federal jurisdictions, altogether in KY...as the 2A demands? The potential downside of this bill is that OC will be legislatively phased out of existence...

OC cant be phased out in ky without a constitutional amendment to the ky constitution.

Good luck getting that done.

 

[Ghost1958]

If the bill violates "the right to equal treatment under the law", why don"t you just challenge the concealed carry law as it exists today? There are several lists of people that are given special authorities and privileges already written into it. Why wait for this one more? The fact is the statute has stood for 25 years and I doubt that it will go anywhere, no matter what stupidity Ghost1958 hurls at it. Ghost has been telling us for years about this great crowd of people that want to repeal concealed carry. Where are they? What are they waiting for? When will they act? Will they all die off before they can be made to act? Where are the rally's to support this group of constitutional heroes? Has anybody been asked to join the group? Is there a mailing address, website, Facebook page, twitter account or any other proof of their existence? What about an electric bill or water bill for their office? No? Must be sone supersecrete group. The truth is Ghost1958 does more damage to the gun movement than any democrats could do. I hate to give him too much credit but he is effective at wrecking advances in our gun rights. If he is not already on the payroll of George Soros or Mike Bloomberg, he should apply for a grant, he has earned it.

I posted where the sponsor of this bill himself said the plan here was to get this bill challenged., beaten and the ccdw done away with " .
Go back in the thread and read it.

Now my friend you have went to far.

I wasnt ond of the ring leaders who couldn't wait a couple of years back in the ninetys so we got a good ccdw permit with no more regulations than OC . But traded all the crap laws that came with it so you could hidd your gun just to pass the bill faster.

How much old George pay yall for that?

I wasnt the one eager willing and supporting the disastrous NRA bill for permitless carry several years back that traded FOL signage, fines for passing no gun signs , and more locations restricted from carry in Ky. That would be YOU. Right here on this forum.

And held that position until it was plain poltical lynchings were coming until even the sponsors of the bill ran from it.

Then you put on your red Cape and tried writing your own bill for the senator " to save the bill" posted it here as " Gutshot Approved" and though not as horrible was still a piece of crap.
And Gushot2 was born shortly after. Trouble is when you scream NO I DID NOT , anything put on the net is ALWAYS on the net. Changing a screen name doesnt delete it. Nothing ever deletes it.

No sir it is YOU who helped birth a bunch of garbage gun regulation. It was YOU who was fine FOL signage in Ky. And now it's you sidling up to your rep over this bill.
-When the word is out that right after we finally get permitless cc , without monthly KSP privacy invasion that goes along with having a ccdw permit, that a bill that creates 2 separate classes of cc carriers, one privileged and one not is being sponsored by Republican and supported by KC3 and you, Goforth will need a new job and you will probably need to change your screen name again.

It IS unequal treatment under the law to penalize people legally carrying without a permit , and favoring those who will still pay an unconstitutional fee, submit to monthly BC and requirements to do the same damn thing.

I didnt saddle us with all the crap that came with the ccdw . YOU and KC3 did that.

You want to see someone who hurt the RTKABA in this state and still supports Bill's that will??
Look in the mirror.

Oh and one last lie you told I'll correct.
I defy anyone to find where I ever said Ky gun owners wanted rid of concealed carry.
They wanted rid of ,and got rid of the requirement to have to get a permit to do so. When they should never have had to have one in the first place

Two entirely different things.

Now go back to your corner before you get embarrassed more and leave me alone.

This bill isn't going to pass. It will probably be withdrawn soon . The path of passing it so it can be challenged and defeated to be rid ccdw is a bogus one. It's a bad, unconstitutional bill that violates several basic rights . Equal treatment under the law just being one.

 

[gutshot II]

OC cant be phased out in ky without a constitutional amendment to the ky constitution.

Good luck getting that done.

Well, what do you know? There is something that Ghost1958 and I agree on.

 

[Ghost1958]

Just finished contacting officials to defeat 610 as well as several other police state expanding bills.

A bit harder now that I cant leave the house for any length of time but still doable

 

[gutshot II]

I hope you called Mary Lou Marzian and Jeffery Donahue. The three of you have very similar beliefs.

 

[Ghost1958]

I hope you called Mary Lou Marzian and Jeffery Donahue. The three of you have very similar beliefs.

No sir we are on complete opposite sides of the fence.
They, like you want laws and gun regulations.

I want NO gun regulation at all as the 2A demands.

But nice try at deflection on your part.

 

[gutshot II]

No sir we are on complete opposite sides of the fence.
They, like you want laws and gun regulations.

I want NO gun regulation at all as the 2A demands.

But nice try at deflection on your part.

The similarity is that all of you, like most good democrats, attempt to stop good, less restrictive gun bills