May I suggest a different choice of words when referencing one's firearm?

[Merlin]

"Firearm" implies fire, a violent expansion of hot gases used to propel a dangerous object. Surely we would not want such a negative connotation!

If the public perception agreed with you on this, so would I. But I don't think it does. I think the desire is to use a more....."clinical" term. Something both accurate and neutral. I refuse to allow the term "Assault Weapon" to be used in my presence without attempting to enlighten the speaker, if I can help it, for the same reason.

Again, y'all can call it what you want, and I won't be offended, but if I am to have a chance of influencing the America lexicon, it starts with my friends and allies right here on OCDO.

I call it "getting our ducks in a row".



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[LkWd_Don]

I have always felt like I can call it whatever I want and if there are a few idiots that think they can make a big deal over it I have a prepared statement that I feel appropriate. It is because I think that if you give an inch they will take a mile. Anyway, I ask them if they have ever heard of the constitution and the 2nd amendment and then say:
Inalienable Rights - You can't take them away. You can't change them - You get no opinion on them on account of their mine!

Not to be nit-picky but just like how I have had to correct History Professors, its "unalienable"!
From http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

emphasis added.

 

[LkWd_Don]

If the public perception agreed with you on this, so would I. But I don't think it does. I think the desire is to use a more....."clinical" term. Something both accurate and neutral. I refuse to allow the term "Assault Weapon" to be used in my presence without attempting to enlighten the speaker, if I can help it, for the same reason.

I agree and one thing that many people forget is that most anything can be a WEAPON, a steak knife, a broom handle, pencil, pen, nail-file, pneumatic nailer, your automobile and if the strike is properly applied - even a persons fingers or hands can be used as a weapon. So, maybe everytime we hear the media using the word WEAPON, we should remind them just how many things are weapons and that it would be useless to try to outlaw any of them.

 

[papa bear]

that's one thing i do correct people on, is when they call their CHP a concealed carry weapon (CCW). i remind them that weapons can not be concealed in NC. but with government permission slip, you can carry a hand gun concealed.

 

[OC for ME]

Yeah, you're right. A few thousand reasonably articulate firearms rights enthusiasts have no chance of influencing the dialog on a national level.

Wait, why are we here again?

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When was the last time you were on a national.....or local media outlet defining the gun debate and defining the definitions? When will you be? Let us know.

Side step the media and work to change the definitions, change the debate, in your state legislatures.

 

[mwaterous]

i remind them that weapons can not be concealed in NC. but with government permission slip, you can carry a hand gun concealed.

You just contradicted yourself. Can weapons be concealed or can't they?

 

[MAC702]

Wikipedia: A firearm is a weapon that launches one or more projectile(s) at high velocity through confined burning of a propellant.

Collins World English Dictionary: firearm — n: a weapon, esp a portable gun or pistol, from which a projectile can be discharged by an explosion caused by igniting gunpowder, etc

Webster's Revised Unabridged: firearm - A gun, pistol, or any weapon from a shot is discharged by the force of an explosive substance, as gunpowder.

Folks, even if you are hunting a jackrabbit, your tool is a weapon. A firearm is perhaps our most efficient personal weapon yet designed, until rail guns get a little smaller.

 

[Brimstone Baritone]

Shhhh! Don't cloud the issue with facts. These people only care about feels.

 

[pfries]

Shhhh! Don't cloud the issue with facts. These people only care about feels.

Fabricated
Allocation of
Contrived
Truths

It is all in the eye of the beholder :uhoh:

EDT: And why 50% of all statistics can support 100% of all claims,the Anti's proved that to me....

 

[papa bear]

You just contradicted yourself. Can weapons be concealed or can't they?

No , i didn't. a weapon is a shrikan, a knife, a hatchet, knun chucks, a board with a nail in it, etc, etc

but a hand gun is not a weapon, NC definition

 

[Felid`Maximus]

Wikipedia: A firearm is a weapon that launches one or more projectile(s) at high velocity through confined burning of a propellant.

Collins World English Dictionary: firearm — n: a weapon, esp a portable gun or pistol, from which a projectile can be discharged by an explosion caused by igniting gunpowder, etc

Webster's Revised Unabridged: firearm - A gun, pistol, or any weapon from a shot is discharged by the force of an explosive substance, as gunpowder.

Folks, even if you are hunting a jackrabbit, your tool is a weapon. A firearm is perhaps our most efficient personal weapon yet designed, until rail guns get a little smaller.

I would agree that if used for self-defense or for hunting, it is being used as a weapon against a person or animal. But if a gun was designed from the ground up specifically for punching holes in paper, steel, or clay, and intended solely for that purpose by the user as well, I think it would not fall under the definition of weapon, unless paper, steel, and clay can be considered a victim or a rival that can be conquered or battled. Of course, the word firearm contains the word "arm" which means weapon. In that particular case however, a more apt description of such a device might be "projectile launcher" rather than arm or weapon. Maybe those particular firearms could be called firelobbers instead of firearms . In such a circumstance, it would also be more of toy or sport implement than a utility tool.

And while even a device designed, intended, and used for non weapon purposes like a target gun could be adapted for use as a weapon, the same is true of a holepunch or a baseball bat.

Of course, chances are if you did not own a projectile launcher for the purpose of being an armament or weapon, you probably wouldn't be on opencarry.org and instead you'd be on a clays or bullseye website.

 

[MAC702]

... NC [legal] definition

And therefore not the topic of the thread, which is actually a good question.

 

[MAC702]

... But if a gun was designed from the ground up specifically for punching holes in paper, steel, or clay, and intended solely for that purpose by the user as well....

Then it would not be a holstered, carried firearm, and not relevant to the thread.

I do have firearms that are not considered weapons by your good example. I don't carry them as sidearms.

But a firearm that is on my hip as a sidearm is by definition a weapon.

 

[mwaterous]

No , i didn't. a weapon is a shrikan, a knife, a hatchet, knun chucks, a board with a nail in it, etc, etc

but a hand gun is not a weapon, NC definition

I thought we weren't calling firearms "weapons" because they're "tools"? So how is a knife and hatchet on that list? :uhoh:

 

[MAC702]

... if a gun was designed from the ground up specifically for punching holes in paper, steel, or clay...

While you made a good point that actually doesn't apply to holstered sidearms, here is something else to consider.

The firearms sports, and most sports for that matter, are derived from competitions as to who best could fight and/or use weapons of hunting or combat.

 

[Brimstone Baritone]

I thought we weren't calling firearms "weapons" because they're "tools"? So how is a knife and hatchet on that list? :uhoh:

Because it's not supposed to make sense, it's supposed to make people feel better about being ignorant. "It's not a weapon, it's a tool!" Oh, like a screwdriver? "Exactly." So what do you do with it? "Defend the lives of myself and my family!" How does it do that? "Well, when I pull this trigger, an explosion causes a buildup of pressure that propels this heavy piece of metal into the attacker." So... More like a nail gun than a screwdriver. "Sure, whatever." Except instead of nailing things down, you're shooting people in the face. "Uhh... Something like that." So it's a weapon? "No, it's a tool."

Your "tool" has no other purpose than to cause grievous harm to whatever it is fired at. Those of us who wear ours openly are hoping that the foreknowledge that we are armed with a deadly weapon will keep the average thug looking for an easier target. Trying to call it anything else but the weapon it is, is being disingenuous to yourselves as well as the people you try to [strike]bull****[/strike] convince.

Edit: Since this is the Alabama forum, I'll add that a firearm is always considered a deadly weapon in Alabama. Even an unloaded firearm. Even a firearm made to where it can no longer fire. It is still, always, legally, a deadly weapon. A screwdriver is a tool that in certain circumstances can be considered a deadly instrument, or could be used as a deadly weapon. A gun is never anything but a deadly weapon.

 

[Merlin]

For those that are insistent upon the "weapon" thing....

No one has said it _isn't_ a weapon. I don't think this discussion was ever disputing that.

This discussion was, from the beginning, discussing whether there is merit to trying to make the terminology more friendly/clinical/warm/fuzzy to none 2a people.

It's a weapon. Got it. Check. You don't want to call it anything besides that. Check. That dead horse is sufficiently beaten.

Unless anyone has any further discussion of the merits of alternative terminology, then there probably isn't much else to cover here.

We now return you to your normal, panties-unbunched programming.



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[MAC702]

...This discussion was, from the beginning, discussing whether there is merit to trying to make the terminology more friendly/clinical/warm/fuzzy to none 2a people...

We now return you to your normal, panties-unbunched programming.

And some of us are arguing (discussion-wise) that there is insufficient merit to sugar-coating terminology to impress upon sheep the wrong words.

Do we not lament the main stream media and public school system in their daily doses of dummying-down society with constant ignorance? Yet you would contribute to this?

Throwing out the panties in a bunch metaphor is a rather insulting way to imply the argument is irrational, especially to the women. Besides, this is the Internet. I happen to be naked at the moment...

 

[mwaterous]

No one has said it _isn't_ a weapon. I don't think this discussion was ever disputing that.

Actually, you might want to read again from the beginning. A few people have. But as you say, that's not the point; however, for proper debate to take place, the misconception that it's "not a weapon" should be clarified. We're either discussing people improperly using a term (which we're not), or we're discussing duping people by pretending it's something it's not (which we are).

This discussion was, from the beginning, discussing whether there is merit to trying to make the terminology more friendly/clinical/warm/fuzzy to none 2a people.

It's a weapon. Got it. Check. You don't want to call it anything besides that. Check. That dead horse is sufficiently beaten.

Then stop beating the dead horse that we're all debating the wrong point, and start convincing us there's any benefit to dropping accurate terminology.

 

[Merlin]

Actually, you might want to read again from the beginning. A few people have. But as you say, that's not the point; however, for proper debate to take place, the misconception that it's "not a weapon" should be clarified. We're either discussing people improperly using a term (which we're not), or we're discussing duping people by pretending it's something it's not (which we are).




Then stop beating the dead horse that we're all debating the wrong point, and start convincing us there's any benefit to dropping accurate terminology.

OK, yes, some people did say that it's not a weapon. I stipulate that those people are wrong.

I don't think it is duping or sugar coating to use terminology that might evoke a more desirable response. I have tried to sell that to the best of my ability. Maybe I have succeeded with some folks, but certainly not with all, which I never expected to. I have sufficiently beaten that dead horse enough, and I am off of it. If anyone else has anything convincing, go for it, but there are some folks who will feel like they are being told what to say, which I don't think was the original intent of the OP.

Can we all at least agree to refuse to let the uninformed masses go uncorrected when they lump "semiautomatic" and "machine gun" together as if they are synonymous? That really DOES get my panties in a bunch!

----
If something I have typed has upset anyone, then either I typed it wrong, or you're not doing it right.



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