Ryan said:
Being a LEO, I ... [bunch of job-related training]
That's good. You were trained to do a job. I hope you do it well, including knowing the laws you're supposed to be enforcing & honoring your oath.
I'd expect a bus driver to be trained how to swing wide around corners, but I don't need to know how to do that 'cause I so rarely drive anything that requires that skill. [
I've driven a m0tor h0me & a moving truck that were both approaching the size of a city bus.]
And I don't think I'll ever again try to clear a house. [
Shouldn't have done it that time, but I was worred about the cats. Yes, I had my pistol in hand.]
The probability is that I will never have to even draw against a human being, but if I do, the probability is that I won't have to shoot him, but if I do the probability is that I'll have a higher hit ratio than you (as a representative LEO).
JTHunter said:
The problem is, without training, they are too great a danger to others and themselves.
... I would also suggest that most people that want to carry, should be checked out mentally in the same way they check for barred individuals (felons, spousal abuse, etc.) to see if there are any major attitude control problems that would cause these individuals to be too high a risk to the general public.
For the first part, show us the problems (in states with either Constitutional Carry, Constitutional OC, or no-training-required licenses to carry open or concealed) which could have been solved by training. By your way of thinking they should be myriad.
(BTW, I'm talking about citizens here. LEO infringement of rights happens even with training, & LEO shooting mistakes happen even with training, so obviously training doesn't prevent all problems. We've already had the examples of bad drivers & doctors who kill, even after training.)
For the second part, the bar for infringing someone's right to self-defense for that reason is pretty high. The disorder has to be severe enough that a judge, usually on the advice of several doctors, makes it public record that a person is not mentally competent.
With your idea about "attitude control problems" we are again facing the problem of "who decides"?
I think we can all agree that the Canton, OH officer had an attitude control problem.
Is it a problem if I flip someone off after they nearly hit me on my motorcycle?
Is it a problem if I vote for the wrong candidate?
Is it a problem if I stand up for my rights & don't allow a warrantless search?
And what exactly constitutes "too high a risk"? How do you measure it?
How do you measure someone's potential to do future harm?
There are no reliable, scientific tests.
RyanC1985 said:
You already accept some rules as to who should and shouldn't carry...
you could never have belonged to a hate group (whether you commited a crime on the hate group's behalf or not).
Cite, please? You are the first I've heard this idea.
RyanC1985 said:
its is considered animal cruelty to sacrifice a live animal
How do you think food animals become food instead of animals?
Hint: they're killed from alive to dead.
Kosher or Halal rules require humane, quick, painless slaughter, as do most other religious rites w/r/t animal sacrifice.
Commercial meat plants, at least in the US, don't. I understand some use electric shock to stun the animals before slitting their throats, some shoot a bolt into their brain. I have no idea if those actually prevent suffering, or just add a different sort.
[
No, I'm not a vegan or vegetarian. But I've seen tapes of what happens inside slaughterhouses. Disgusting & disturbing as they were, especially the wanton cruelty, I watched because I should know what happens to my food. By eating it, I'm just as guilty as the ones causing the pain. When I can, I choose humanely raised & killed food.]
SavageOne said:
I think "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a damn good motto.
One Heinlein character pointed out that that's a really bad way to live.
What if I were into receiving vampirism or being suspended by piercings?
[
Just to be abundantly clear here, I'm NOT.]
By your rule, it'd be OK to inflict those on you because I like them.
Try: do unto others as you think they want to be done to.