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In Mass. do swat teams have any immunity? Their answer to FOIA request says no

EMNofSeattle

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What about the LEO working, in uniform, as a security guard, is he still a LEO or is he "just an employee"? The former, I believe.
I can't go into details about why I know this, but the state patrol when working private gigs considers themselves to be private security.... It involves a civil issue I know of and I can't speak more then that on the subject.
 

Primus

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I can't go into details about why I know this, but the state patrol when working private gigs considers themselves to be private security.... It involves a civil issue I know of and I can't speak more then that on the subject.
Define private gig?

If its a detail through the PD and wearing city of x patch on your sleeve while standing in front of x restaurant then its Leo. If on your weekends you work for CVS (just example)in a separate uniform then your on your own.

Oue contract actually prevents us from working any job that "conflicts". So for example we cant work as a door man at a local club in our free time. But if that same club called our detail office they could hire me at a detail rate. I would then wear city uniform and fall under regular police powers and procedures.



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davidmcbeth

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Define private gig?

If its a detail through the PD and wearing city of x patch on your sleeve while standing in front of x restaurant then its Leo. If on your weekends you work for CVS (just example)in a separate uniform then your on your own.

Oue contract actually prevents us from working any job that "conflicts". So for example we cant work as a door man at a local club in our free time. But if that same club called our detail office they could hire me at a detail rate. I would then wear city uniform and fall under regular police powers and procedures.



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I got some outside work authorizations from the Seattle PD a few months ago ... all were to do flagging & other mundane tasks that really do not require a cop...

I'll attach one her ... this dude had 21 sick days in one year ... that's a lot !
 

Primus

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I got some outside work authorizations from the Seattle PD a few months ago ... all were to do flagging & other mundane tasks that really do not require a cop...

I'll attach one her ... this dude had 21 sick days in one year ... that's a lot !
And what did I say?

See the box "wearing SPD uniform" and then the "authorized secondary employment".

This is just a detail slip to hire officers.



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davidmcbeth

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And what did I say?

See the box "wearing SPD uniform" and then the "authorized secondary employment".

This is just a detail slip to hire officers.



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According to SPD, it's a "permission slip" or request for the cop to be able to accept the job. Not a job detail of the PD but to work for a private company. But looking at other records .... I wonder how these guys are still employed w/all their sick days?

Almost 1/2 of the records show excessive sick days from the employees ... I only allow 3/yr avg for my employees, then they are warned, then fired if they go over.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Define private gig?

If its a detail through the PD and wearing city of x patch on your sleeve while standing in front of x restaurant then its Leo. If on your weekends you work for CVS (just example)in a separate uniform then your on your own.

Oue contract actually prevents us from working any job that "conflicts". So for example we cant work as a door man at a local club in our free time. But if that same club called our detail office they could hire me at a detail rate. I would then wear city uniform and fall under regular police powers and procedures


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the Washington State patrol (an agency I have no particular beef with at all) the troopers after passing probation can contract with an private group called puget sound executive services a private security firm, becuase Washington law exempts LE and national guardsmen from the requirement to obtain a security license. The troopers are paid their normal salary by PSES and not the WSP but they wear their uniforms, carry state issued gear, and in some cases have driven state issued patrol cars.

But they're working as private security, if they were to take LE action above what a private citizen could do they have to go on duty and report to the shift supervisor. But they go to lengths to avoid having to do that. In some cases ignoring flagrant violations of the law, in other cases acting like they performed a "citizens arrest" and calling outside agencies to book trespassers even though they're wearing state gear.
 
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Primus

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the Washington State patrol (an agency I have no particular beef with at all) the troopers after passing probation can contract with an private group called puget sound executive services a private security firm, becuase Washington law exempts LE and national guardsmen from the requirement to obtain a security license. The troopers are paid their normal salary by PSES and not the WSP but they wear their uniforms, carry state issued gear, and in some cases have driven state issued patrol cars.

But they're working as private security, if they were to take LE action above what a private citizen could do they have to go on duty and report to the shift supervisor. But they go to lengths to avoid having to do that. In some cases ignoring flagrant violations of the law, in other cases acting like they performed a "citizens arrest" and calling outside agencies to book trespassers even though they're wearing state gear.
Seems shady to me. I know we certainly can't/don't operate like that under our contract.

I'd be pissed about that and calling bull.

Thanks for the explanation though its good info.

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countryclubjoe

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While LEO are said to be on duty 24/7, I doubt their immunity would extend to their moon-lighting positions in regards to civil litigation.

I suspect that if they violate someone's rights while moon-lighting as a stock boy at Wal-mart or tending bar at Porky's pub, their respective unions and departments would not come to their defense. Acting under color of law by the LEO could and should cause major legal issues.

My .02

Regards

CCJ
 

EMNofSeattle

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While LEO are said to be on duty 24/7, I doubt their immunity would extend to their moon-lighting positions in regards to civil litigation.

I suspect that if they violate someone's rights while moon-lighting as a stock boy at Wal-mart or tending bar at Porky's pub, their respective unions and departments would not come to their defense. Acting under color of law by the LEO could and should cause major legal issues.

My .02

Regards

CCJ
Most departments won't let officers moonlight for certain businesses, alcohol is one, casinos/gaming is another, tow truck operators or repossession agents are another. I should say, every department who's manual I have personally read bans those kinds of industries. I can't speak for the ones I have not read in person.

I think too part of it depends how and where they're moonlighting. An example is the puyallup fair here in Washington, the largest fair in the state, the fair is privately owned, but attracts literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of patrons yearly, people come in for agriculture shows from all over the PNW, there a rodeo. Big name acts like Taylor Swift, Heart, this year Toby Keith and REO speed wagon are coming, this is huge event, and there are dozens of police officers wearing uniforms from agencies all over the state at the fair everywhere. I think the fair is paying their salaries and they're expected to work as police officers, I think immunity might cover them then... I really don't know. They make arrests and act like cops at the fair, not like security, so I would assume so.
 

countryclubjoe

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Most departments won't let officers moonlight for certain businesses, alcohol is one, casinos/gaming is another, tow truck operators or repossession agents are another. I should say, every department who's manual I have personally read bans those kinds of industries. I can't speak for the ones I have not read in person.

I think too part of it depends how and where they're moonlighting. An example is the puyallup fair here in Washington, the largest fair in the state, the fair is privately owned, but attracts literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of patrons yearly, people come in for agriculture shows from all over the PNW, there a rodeo. Big name acts like Taylor Swift, Heart, this year Toby Keith and REO speed wagon are coming, this is huge event, and there are dozens of police officers wearing uniforms from agencies all over the state at the fair everywhere. I think the fair is paying their salaries and they're expected to work as police officers, I think immunity might cover them then... I really don't know. They make arrests and act like cops at the fair, not like security, so I would assume so.
Hi EmNoSeattle-

The immunity issue in you're example is an interesting legal issue.
Recall that private entities are not subject to adhere to Constitutional Law however in the event that they hire government agent's to do their dirty work and enforce their rules and regulations, some, of which, I am sure are unconstitutional, then I would argue that the private entity in portraying itself as having some kind of Government authority, is subject to operate under Constitutional laws, they can't have their cake and it too without some legal ramifications. ( Think hired corrections officers in some state correctional facilities, while they are not Government employee's, they are bound to protect the constitutional rights of the convicts) See book titled " Section 1983 Litigation" in a nut shell by Michael G collins" .. A great read, I may add.



My .02

Regards

CCJ
 

Freedom1Man

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Most departments won't let officers moonlight for certain businesses, alcohol is one, casinos/gaming is another, tow truck operators or repossession agents are another. I should say, every department who's manual I have personally read bans those kinds of industries. I can't speak for the ones I have not read in person.

SNIP
Gee, I wonder why they would not let policemen be repossession agents......

Maybe because a court order is required otherwise someone doing a repo, could be treated as though they are committing a felony.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Gee, I wonder why they would not let policemen be repossession agents......

Maybe because a court order is required otherwise someone doing a repo, could be treated as though they are committing a felony.
I would hope all repo agents only repo cars with a court order. I used to watch that show "operation repo" and they had a scene where they arrive to repo a car, and the college kid they're repoing it from asks to see the replevin order and the big guy who wears the coveralls gets in his face and calls him a "******" and then theeatens him for the keys.....

I buy cars with cash so that's not in issue, but that show is 100% fake because if a repo agent actually did that crap the bank would be let off easy if they only lost the value of the loan on the car.....
 
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Freedom1Man

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I would hope all repo agents only repo cars with a court order. I used to watch that show "operation repo" and they had a scene where they arrive to repo a car, and the college kid they're repoing it from asks to see the replevin order and the big guy who wears the coveralls gets in his face and calls him a "******" and then theeatens him for the keys.....

I buy cars with cash so that's not in issue, but that show is 100% fake because if a repo agent actually did that crap the bank would be let off easy if they only lost the value of the loan on the car.....
Having spoken to a few people who have had their cars repod, there was never a court order, only a bank order.

The bank having to suffer comes up under auto-theft laws. If the repo guy(s) get shot while doing a repo without a court order, then it's a case of defense against car-jacking/car theft.
 

davidmcbeth

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Having spoken to a few people who have had their cars repod, there was never a court order, only a bank order.

The bank having to suffer comes up under auto-theft laws. If the repo guy(s) get shot while doing a repo without a court order, then it's a case of defense against car-jacking/car theft.
I would think that your (or whose ever) contract with the bank would highlight their right to repo ... no court order is needed as its already agreed upon.

IMO
 

davidmcbeth

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Hi EmNoSeattle-

The immunity issue in you're example is an interesting legal issue.
Recall that private entities are not subject to adhere to Constitutional Law however in the event that they hire government agent's to do their dirty work and enforce their rules and regulations, some, of which, I am sure are unconstitutional, then I would argue that the private entity in portraying itself as having some kind of Government authority, is subject to operate under Constitutional laws, they can't have their cake and it too without some legal ramifications. ( Think hired corrections officers in some state correctional facilities, while they are not Government employee's, they are bound to protect the constitutional rights of the convicts) See book titled " Section 1983 Litigation" in a nut shell by Michael G collins" .. A great read, I may add.



My .02

Regards

CCJ
I would question if a 1983 case would even be needed ... they would be, after all, just working for a private company...not the gov't.
 

countryclubjoe

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I would question if a 1983 case would even be needed ... they would be, after all, just working for a private company...not the gov't.
Hi davidmcbeth

Read this case law and you will understand the power of the 1983..

Monroe v Pape- (1961)

L.G.Lusby v T.G.& Y stores, Inc ( 10th Circuit 1984)


Lower courts have found that off-duty police officers who continue to wear various TRAPPINGS from their day jobs while on private security duty were engaging in action under " color of law" in certain encounters with private citizens.

I suggest all OCDO members to familiarize themselves with 42 U.S.C. Section 1983-

A good start is to read. "Section 1983 litigation" by Michael G. Collins

We all know our rights, however, knowing what redress one possess when those rights are violated is paramount to liberty and financial security.

My .02

davidmcbeth, I enjoy reading you're post.

Thank you and best regards.

CCJ
 
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Freedom1Man

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I would think that your (or whose ever) contract with the bank would highlight their right to repo ... no court order is needed as its already agreed upon.

IMO
It's a contract.

If you agree to pay me to work for you, I work for you, then you don't pay. Are you saying it's okay for me to send someone to your house to simply take what ever cash you have lying around to make good on your promise to pay? Or would I have to seek a court order to make you pay?

How many times do banks screw up their records and try to repo, even, homes without a contract even? Banks make mistakes in the records too which is why you're supposed to get a court order before you repo a car.
 

countryclubjoe

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Different states have different laws, statutes, rules etc regarding repossession of vehicles. As they do with home foreclosure laws, some states have a judicial process others a non- judicial.

In NJ the repo people do not need a court order to repo said vehicle however they cannot come on you're private property to do there dirty work.

My .02

Regards

CCJ
 
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