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In Mass. do swat teams have any immunity? Their answer to FOIA request says no

davidmcbeth

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That's the best you had?

What did I expect...

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And I expected nothing more of significance ... unfortunately you maybe brainwashed so I don't think its your fault....

I am capable of independent thought & to discuss new ideas.

You are free to think that jacketed goofs coming in swat gear for a noise complaint is appropriate...I'll keep my faith in my own ideas ...
 
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Aknazer

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This discussion would he comical if you guys weren't so serious. Some are so far off base and out of touch with reality it'd again be funny if they weren't serious.

Also, as usual, the biases and jadedness rears its ugly head.

This is based on 1 article that not many if any guys in here have read.

These are cops that are on the teams. Sworn officers that work together to make a regional team. The regional team is run by a "council".

This whole situation is just the council telling the ACLU to get screwed and coming up with a legal way to deny them records. THAT is what everyone should be pissed about.

Take any team.... Semlec nemlec metro etc. Etc. When they serve a warrant they are still cops. You don't become unsworn when you report to your team.

This is administrative issue only. To say "oh they are just civilians and have no immunity" shows the lack of knowledge of how it works. The worst part is none seem to actually care enough to research or ask. Just get the bad info and run with it.

A warrant is a warrant is a warrant...... To be served by a duly served law enforcement officer..... Look that up. It doesnt matter if a LT from.a different department calls and says "hey we are serving said warrant". Doesn't make you any less sworn of an officer.

Again... Administrative actions to block the ACLU. Be mad at that. At least you'll be accurate.



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Either they are a part of the government and thus subject to FOIA requests, or they aren't and thus they can't do all of the things that they can do while working for the police force. The second that they execute that warrant from the government they are acting in an official capacity and are subject to it. Likewise, if they are a private organization and not subject to it then they are effectively acting as bounty hunters and lose the policy immunities for simply "thinking" they were the following and what not. Also as a private organization I'm sure there would be all sorts of issues in regards to grant money...something they already seem to be having an issue.

Yes the people are cops, but IF the organization is a private organization then the cops have to act like it. Just as how you can't take a bunch of military, throw them into a private organization, send them to war, and then claim "oh private organization, denied" when someone FOIA's about it. Not to mention that the private organization would need to follow all civilian laws in regards to weaponry even if it was all military members who did the foot work.

Thus the "administrative action" holds even less water than a wet paper bag with the bottom blown out of it.
 

Primus

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Either they are a part of the government and thus subject to FOIA requests, or they aren't and thus they can't do all of the things that they can do while working for the police force. The second that they execute that warrant from the government they are acting in an official capacity and are subject to it. Likewise, if they are a private organization and not subject to it then they are effectively acting as bounty hunters and lose the policy immunities for simply "thinking" they were the following and what not. Also as a private organization I'm sure there would be all sorts of issues in regards to grant money...something they already seem to be having an issue.

Yes the people are cops, but IF the organization is a private organization then the cops have to act like it. Just as how you can't take a bunch of military, throw them into a private organization, send them to war, and then claim "oh private organization, denied" when someone FOIA's about it. Not to mention that the private organization would need to follow all civilian laws in regards to weaponry even if it was all military members who did the foot work.

Thus the "administrative action" holds even less water than a wet paper bag with the bottom blown out of it.
I agree. This foia request denial will never hold up and as it SHOULDNT.

I think it was just an attempt by them to keep the ACLU away. That's all.

These guys are clearly cops. They are clearly acting as police when they execute any warrants or respond to any incidents (barricade, hostage,active shooter).

The uproar about "private assassins" is completely misplaced.

These teams should be held accountable and open to reviews of records.

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Primus

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So you are saying it is ok for them to not have to explain themselves to the public. The same public that funds them? You are always so fos and backtracking.
Never backtracked from anything. That was actually one of my first actual posts in this thread.

Never said it was ok for then to deny the request. The teams are and should be held accountable.

I was shedding some light through the BS. That's all.

I most ironic part about this is just yesterday while it was getting deep on here I was actually training with one of the teams in question. Maybe they were hiding but I failed to see all the private ninjas and bounty hunter assassins.... It was just a bunch of cops shooting each other with simmunitions.

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Primus

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1980 witnessed about 3,000 midnight raids by SWAT teams upon residential homes

By 2001 we had about 45,000 annual SWAT raids

2013 witnessed about 80,000 SWAT raids
And I expected nothing more of significance ... unfortunately you maybe brainwashed so I don't think its your fault....

I am capable of independent thought & to discuss new ideas.

You are free to think that jacketed goofs coming in swat gear for a noise complaint is appropriate...I'll keep my faith in my own ideas ...
How does any of this relate to whether or not these teams are police or not?

More hyperbole and propaganda to excite the masses...

You alleged alleged these guys lost their immunity. I asked for a cite to back up.

I received silence and then some more rhetoric in return.

The discussion (as always) went from the actual topic (these teams claiming exemption from foia requests) to.... Assassins.... Bisbanning.... 48 million raids per day.... Run for the hills paramilitary ninjas are coming for your dogs and wives !!!!......

It really does a disservice to the forum and our entire group itself.

But you guys are right... Its certainly the police that ferment the "us vs. Them" attitude....

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sudden valley gunner

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But you guys are right... Its certainly the police that ferment the "us vs. Them" attitude....

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Yes it is, by their unconstitutional proactive policing. By their continual bullshite to try to hide behind loopholes and not be accountable, by their continued protection of their "brothers in blue", etc.
 

davidmcbeth

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How does any of this relate to whether or not these teams are police or not?

More hyperbole and propaganda to excite the masses...

You alleged alleged these guys lost their immunity. I asked for a cite to back up.

I received silence and then some more rhetoric in return.

The discussion (as always) went from the actual topic (these teams claiming exemption from foia requests) to.... Assassins.... Bisbanning.... 48 million raids per day.... Run for the hills paramilitary ninjas are coming for your dogs and wives !!!!......

It really does a disservice to the forum and our entire group itself.

But you guys are right... Its certainly the police that ferment the "us vs. Them" attitude....

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Thanks for calling it hyperbole .. but you touched back on the the original post ... do you think that they are not subject to a record request?
 
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Primus

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Yes it is, by their unconstitutional proactive policing. By their continual bullshite to try to hide behind loopholes and not be accountable, by their continued protection of their "brothers in blue", etc.
Classic...... "They make us do it...."

"If they didn't do this we wouldn't do that..."

That's a mature stand up way to approach things.

I expect nothing less.

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Primus

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Thanks for calling it hyperbole .. but you touched back on the the original post ... do you think that they are not subject to a record request?
Im honestly not sure how/if they are subject to records request legally.

I can say they SHOULD be. Just don't know what the current process is. We have our own team so we don't fall under a LEC so I'm honestly unfamiliar with their process.

And again... This will never stand up. Its just a way to try and keep the ACLU away and keep ammo (no pun intended) away from haters.

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davidmcbeth

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Im honestly not sure how/if they are subject to records request legally.

I can say they SHOULD be. Just don't know what the current process is. We have our own team so we don't fall under a LEC so I'm honestly unfamiliar with their process.

And again... This will never stand up. Its just a way to try and keep the ACLU away and keep ammo (no pun intended) away from haters.

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If they are trying to keep the ACLU away this is not a good way of doing it -- they followup with denied records requests.

And I don't think it would be that hard to show that they are a government equivalent organization.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Classic...... "They make us do it...."

"If they didn't do this we wouldn't do that..."

That's a mature stand up way to approach things.

I expect nothing less.

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Hahahahaha nice try.

Whats the cops excuse for doing the things I mentioned? :rolleyes:

Self defense, isn't the victims fault, or do you not understand that? Hating intrusive anti liberty state government is American. I hope it never dies out, no matter how hard statist want it too.
 
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Primus

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Hahahahaha nice try.

Whats the cops excuse for doing the things I mentioned? :rolleyes:

Self defense, isn't the victims fault, or do you not understand that? Hating intrusive anti liberty state government is American. I hope it never dies out, no matter how hard statist want it too.
There is no excuse for things you mentioned.

Difference I can admit that while you stand behind "oh I'm poor victim its self defense they make me act like a d bag because they are mean to me...."

Guess you never heard two wrongs.don't make a right?

If I broke a guys arm because he was fighting me you'd quickly call for my job. If I was ambushed and shot tonight you'd say "oh they pushed him to kill.him".....

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countryclubjoe

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" The appearance of the law must be upheld, especially when its being broken"-- SWAT MOTTO!

CCJ
 

sudden valley gunner

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There is no excuse for things you mentioned.

Difference I can admit that while you stand behind "oh I'm poor victim its self defense they make me act like a d bag because they are mean to me...."

Guess you never heard two wrongs.don't make a right?

If I broke a guys arm because he was fighting me you'd quickly call for my job. If I was ambushed and shot tonight you'd say "oh they pushed him to kill.him".....

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:rolleyes:

No I wouldn't say that. Your dishonest tactics have become more subtle and are still there. Its a real nice redherring/strawman argument you invented there.

This isn't about "two wrongs". This is about corrupt , inept , power hungry, institutions and those who work in them that enforce rules over law, ignore the constitution. Your immediate jump to defend these institutions, and the corrupt individuals in them, along with demonizing and attacking anyone who criticizes them shows your blatant blind submission and religious like adherence to the state, and your lack of independent/critical thinking. You have made it extremely clear to anybody with half a brain and inkling of liberty leaning you are not on their side.

Since you have a hard time understanding this, police agencies are government, they are supposed to be constitutionally restricted. People can hate them and government and not be "bigots" you try to paint them to be just as the colonist rightfully despised the peons of King George wearing redcoats. That is what the modern police force has become, in fact they have become much worse in many many ways.
 
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davidmcbeth

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OF course when SWAT Cops "accidently" (don't buy that for a second) kill people they don't want the public to have access to that info.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20110106/News/301069941

Or when they burn an apartment complex down with flash grenades.
"I shot him because he had a gun pointed at me"

"Bob, there was no gun"

"I meant knife, KNIFE, lunging at me!"

"Bob, there was no knife"

"Thanks for correcting me, it was a guitar, swinging it at me, pointing it towards me like he was going to poke me"

"Bob, we found no guitar."

"It was an air guitar...you did find air up there, right? RIGHT?"

"I guess so Bob, good job! You'll make cop-O-da-Month for this raid."

"Hooray ! That makes three months in a row! They should make people register all these air guitars!"
 

MSG Laigaie

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But that's just it...they are not sworn officers .. they are just employees of a company..
What about the LEO working, in uniform, as a security guard, is he still a LEO or is he "just an employee"? The former, I believe.


Those that do with the MASS. private swat team company of course ! And they are not "police" during these operations. They are mercenaries....
I take umbrage to that comment, I was a mercenary for many years and "LEO" was never a part of that

So you are saying it is ok for them to not have to explain themselves to the public.
Remember the part about...."anything you say (or documents you furnish)can be used against you in a court of law....." Do you really need an explanation as to why they do not wish to disclose??
 

sudden valley gunner

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"I shot him because he had a gun pointed at me"

"Bob, there was no gun"

"I meant knife, KNIFE, lunging at me!"

"Bob, there was no knife"

"Thanks for correcting me, it was a guitar, swinging it at me, pointing it towards me like he was going to poke me"

"Bob, we found no guitar."

"It was an air guitar...you did find air up there, right? RIGHT?"

"I guess so Bob, good job! You'll make cop-O-da-Month for this raid."

"Hooray ! That makes three months in a row! They should make people register all these air guitars!"

 
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