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Gun Rally at the Capitol Next Friday

solus

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here nc
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/administrative+law

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/administrative-law.asp

How many more you want. I got plenty.

No they can't "pump out any law they want". As I clearly posted above, they are "clearly limited by statute and closely monitored by the General Assembly." This is common practice in all levels of government, state, local and Federal and has been so for centuries. That is quite a long time to keep paint on that cow. If statutes had to be written for every policy and regulation necessary for the operation of all government agencies that government would grind to a halt under the sheer number of items to be dealt with. It is unreasonable to expect legislators to be knowledgable on the interworkings of all the issues that every state or federal agency deals with to be able to write such legislation. Limited authority is delegated to the agencies and the knowledgable people running those agencies that are expert in that field under the watchful eye of the legislature.
wait you stated no elected official involved...now your stating legislative members are involved...wow now i see where the confusion started...
 

gutshot II

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Location
Central Ky.
..."watchful eye of the legislature"...now that right there is funny...I don't care who are...

Anyway, if the legislature had a watchful eye, then a simple one time communication with your respective state reps would mitigate all of our works to reign in wayward state/county/municipal agents and agencies...as in gunbuster signs posted where they are not authorized by the legislature's enactments to be posted.

Example:
Me: [Call state rep]...Hey, this gubmint building has a gunbuster sign posted...they ain't got no authority to post that there sign!

State Rep: You are right, can I put you on hold?...[on hold elevator music]...OK, are you still there? Great, I just talked to that office and the signs are coming down right now.

Me: Great, thanks, I'ma gunna go over a verify that those fellas took down that gunbuster sign. I'll call you back in a bit...thanks Mr. State Rep...you are awesome! You gots my vote next time around.
State representatives are not law enforcement officers and have no more authority to order a local government to do anything than I do. This post is astonishingly uninformed.
 

gutshot II

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Messages
768
Location
Central Ky.
Excellent work! I have used your posts on these types of interactions you have had in Kentucy with agencies and legislators as the foundation of my efforts to gain similar results in Missouri. My efforts do not always gain immediate results but perseverance usually wins the day. Your experiences are a valuable resource. Thank you for you hard works...and for sharing your efforts and their results.
My efforts are not always fruitful either but, like you, I keep at it.
 

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
It’s is obvious you only know what you read. The problem is you have no knowledge of the origin/history of what you read. Your claim that administrative procedure has been around in all levels of government, state, local and Federal, for centuries is flat wrong. The federal Administrative Procedure Act wasn’t enacted until 1946, not even a century ago. Then the states followed suit.

Administrative law is created by administrative agencies in the form of rules, regulations, orders, and decisions of which is called law, hence, painting pig on the side of a cow and calling the cow a pig. Administrative law or procedure is the processes before an administrative agency, also known as an Article II court, as distinguished from judicial procedures which takes place before an Article III court.

You can be right for all the wrong reasons.
So now they are law!? I'd rather be right for the wrong reasons, whatever that means, than just plain wrong, like you were.
 

color of law

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
So now they are law!? I'd rather be right for the wrong reasons, whatever that means, than just plain wrong, like you were.
Do you have a problem understanding plane English? Do you think I make things up? And you saying "I'd rather be right for the wrong reasons, whatever that means," proves you are quite ignorant of the legal system. I suggest you start reading more court cases. It would help you to be more informed and not write such frivolous drivel.
 

Ghost1958

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Messages
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Kentucky
State representatives are not law enforcement officers and have no more authority to order a local government to do anything than I do. This post is astonishingly uninformed.
So preemption does not exist?

State government within its constitutional boundaries certainly CAN tell local gov what to do. And do so concerning weapons quite often.

Law enforcement officers on the other hand cannot tell a local government to do squat.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
State representatives are not law enforcement officers and have no more authority to order a local government to do anything than I do. This post is astonishingly uninformed.
Kentucky may be different.

I am not permitted to involve the state AG to "inform" a wayward state/county/municipal agency or political subdivision to conform to state law...a elected rep, on the other hand, is authorized to request the state AG to investigate. The state AG does have the prerogative to not investigate, but in MO our AG has yet to not inquire, at a minimum, which usually results in the wayward agency ect... being more willing to comply with state law to avoid a more lengthy and potentially costly investigation.

True, I am uninformed on the workings of Kentucky...this is why I look forward to your posts on such matters.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Kentucky may be different.

I am not permitted to involve the state AG to "inform" a wayward state/county/municipal agency or political subdivision to conform to state law...a elected rep, on the other hand, is authorized to request the state AG to investigate. The state AG does have the prerogative to not investigate, but in MO our AG has yet to not inquire, at a minimum, which usually results in the wayward agency ect... being more willing to comply with state law to avoid a more lengthy and potentially costly investigation.

True, I am uninformed on the workings of Kentucky...this is why I look forward to your posts on such matters.
Every state operates that way including KY. If AGs were to write opinions for every Joe Citizen, he would need a staff of thousands.
 

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
Every state operates that way including KY. If AGs were to write opinions for every Joe Citizen, he would need a staff of thousands.
And put a lot of private attorneys out of a job. The AG's office will investigate crimes but only those that are widespread or of particularity sensitive nature ie. Organized crime, political corruption, human trafficking, etc. They are not there to answer every stupid question for every stupid citizen. There is no free legal advice that is worth having. One elected official is not going to tell another elected official what to do. Some elected officials can charge other elected officials with violations of law but not give daily critiques on their job performance. A good example is when the County Clerk of Rowan County refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. Andy Beshear admonished her many times but she told him to pound sand. He had no power over her.
 

OC for ME

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And put a lot of private attorneys out of a job. The AG's office will investigate crimes but only those that are widespread or of particularity sensitive nature ie. Organized crime, political corruption, human trafficking, etc. They are not there to answer every stupid question for every stupid citizen. There is no free legal advice that is worth having. One elected official is not going to tell another elected official what to do. Some elected officials can charge other elected officials with violations of law but not give daily critiques on their job performance. A good example is when the County Clerk of Rowan County refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. Andy Beshear admonished her many times but she told him to pound sand. He had no power over her.
I am sure you are correct where elected officials are concerned. Appointed (hired) agency officials, on the other hand, are at risk of civil, and perhaps criminal, sanctions if they are blatantly and willfully violating state law...no Heien defense for them as there is for cops.
 

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
I am sure you are correct where elected officials are concerned. Appointed (hired) agency officials, on the other hand, are at risk of civil, and perhaps criminal, sanctions if they are blatantly and willfully violating state law...no Heien defense for them as there is for cops.
So preemption does not exist?

State government within its constitutional boundaries certainly CAN tell local gov what to do. And do so concerning weapons quite often.

Law enforcement officers on the other hand cannot tell a local government to do squat.
In the context of passing laws to limit local official's action, of course they can but they can't just pick up then phone and tell then how to run their city on an individual or daily basis .That was the context of this conversation.
 
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OC for ME

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In the context of passing laws to limit local official's action, of course they can but they can't just pick up then phone and tell then how to run their city on an individual or daily basis .That was the context of this conversation.
I disagree. A state elected rep certainly has the authority to remind a wayward agent/agency, and even a local elected rep, that the state AG would be informed of the alleged violations (non-conformity?) of state law. "Smart" agents and local elected reps would be disinclined to continue their wayward ways.

Preemption violations are a very good example that you have chronicled on this very website.

I make it clear to my reps that their inaction on this specific topic, 2A violations by agents/agencies and local reps, will garner further scrutiny on their self-claimed devotion to the 2A...and I will pass along my concerns to my fellow voters of a like mind.
 

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
I disagree. A state elected rep certainly has the authority to remind a wayward agent/agency, and even a local elected rep, that the state AG would be informed of the alleged violations (non-conformity?) of state law. "Smart" agents and local elected reps would be disinclined to continue their wayward ways.

Preemption violations are a very good example that you have chronicled on this very website.

I make it clear to my reps that their inaction on this specific topic, 2A violations by agents/agencies and local reps, will garner further scrutiny on their self-claimed devotion to the 2A...and I will pass along my concerns to my fellow voters of a like mind.
Of course any citizen can inform a local government officer of his misconduct. I have never said that they could not. They have no authority to order them to stop.
 

OC for ME

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Of course any citizen can inform a local government officer of his misconduct. I have never said that they could not. They have no authority to order them to stop.
A elected state rep intervening on our behalf to the state AG to correct a agent/agency or a elected rep of a inferior political subdivision is clearly my focus. I did not contend that a private citizen could not interact with local government officer.
 

gutshot II

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A elected state rep intervening on our behalf to the state AG to correct a agent/agency or a elected rep of a inferior political subdivision is clearly my focus. I did not contend that a private citizen could not interact with local government officer.
A legislator, likewise, has no authority to demand a local government official do anything. One is a state official and the other a local official. Neither has any authority over the other. Even the Governor can not demand a mayor take any particular action. He could, as any citizen can start a court action to force the mayor to cease an action or take a certain course or even have him removed. The type of government you imagine would be unworkable every republican state official would be calling ever democrat mayor every day and vice versa. All elected officials are free to do their job as they see fit as long as it is consistent with the law. Two different interpretations of the constitution is not enough. Two different ideas of what is best in their town is not enough. Those arguements are settled in courtrooms and ballot boxes not over the phone.
 

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
That would be the court telling them what to do, not a legislator.
And you replied:

"Wrong. All the court is doing is telling the defendant to comply with the plaintiff's demand. The court is just the arbitrator between a dispute."

It seems your statement agrees with my statement. So, we are in agreement. The court is doing the telling. Without input from the court nothing would happen.
 
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