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Gun Rally at the Capitol Next Friday

color of law

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It would also be their last term in office. Our concealed carry law is enormously popular in this state. Without it we lose reciprocity and the gun owners won't stand for that. The vast majority of gun owner's affection for the Constitution won't extend that far.
Really? The citizens of your state don't want to take advantage of their inalienable rights bestowed upon them by their creator?
 

Ghost1958

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Really? The citizens of your state don't want to take advantage of their inalienable rights bestowed upon them by their creator?
In the Lex Louisville area might want the permit to stay as is as that is the most liberal part of the state.

Unlike another poster who had made a career of saying what ky gun owners want without really knowing , I'll only speak to the folks in my area of the state and those I correspond with.

Most of those would like the ccdw permit as it is repealed.
Some would like it gone completely, while a lesser amount would like it replaced with a 10 dollar ccdw permit, shall issue, no training requirements or background checks , no KSP, just go to the courthouse and buy it.. Totally for use when traveling to other states.
 

Ghost1958

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Kentucky could just pass a law that says the Second Amendment the the U.S. Constitution is Kentucky's license to carry concealed.
Pretty much have in state. No permit required to carry long or handguns open concealed, even in your hand.

Now if all other states would follow suit that would work.
 

gutshot II

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I
Agreed...now, regarding Ky. Administrative Restrictions...that will, if violated, land you in jail...
It is not "Restrictions". It's "Regulations". Terrible confusion regarding those words on OCDO. The KAR is an compilation of laws inferior to the Statutes that are passed by executive branch agencies in order to apply and enforce their policies. No elected official is involved in writing these laws. Some of them carry heavy fines and a few jail time. I'll let you comb through them to pick out the ones that do. I remember specifically a couple in the section on environment law that carry jail time for violations. The KAR can be accessed at the website of the LRC, just like the KRS.
 

solus

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I
It is not "Restrictions". It's "Regulations". Terrible confusion regarding those words on OCDO. The KAR is an compilation of laws inferior to the Statutes that are passed by executive branch agencies in order to apply and enforce their policies. No elected official is involved in writing these laws. Some of them carry heavy fines and a few jail time. I'll let you comb through them to pick out the ones that do. I remember specifically a couple in the section on environment law that carry jail time for violations. The KAR can be accessed at the website of the LRC, just like the KRS.
hummm interesting gut you just stated exactly what everyone is stating ~ jail time!

no elected official involved...so none of the head of those department whom approve said "policies" , er sorry "inferior laws" are elected ~ really? per ky leg site: https://legislature.ky.gov/Committees/Pages/Committee-Details.aspx?CommitteeRSN=3&CommitteeType=Statutory Committee
Statutory Committee
Administrative Regulation Review Sub.

Review and comment upon administrative regulations submitted to it by the Legislative Research Commission; make nonbinding determinations concerning the statutory authority to promulgate administrative regulations filed with the Legislative Research Commission; review existing administrative regulations; recommend the amendment, repeal, or enactment of statutes relating to administrative regulations; conduct a continuous study of the administrative regulations procedure and the needs of administrative bodies; study statutes relating to administrative hearings; and make legislative recommendations.
Legislative Members
 

color of law

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Administrative Regulations are not law. The executive branch has no power to create laws or create crimes. All the administrative agencies' power are encompassed within the statutory law. If the law does not grant them power to address a particular subject, then any such regulation doing so would be void. And, an administrative regulation contrary to the constitution would, also, be void.

Example: in the end, the federal administrative bump stock ban will be found to be outside the law.
 

OC for ME

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I
It is not "Restrictions". It's "Regulations". Terrible confusion regarding those words on OCDO. The KAR is an compilation of laws inferior to the Statutes that are passed by executive branch agencies in order to apply and enforce their policies. No elected official is involved in writing these laws. Some of them carry heavy fines and a few jail time. I'll let you comb through them to pick out the ones that do. I remember specifically a couple in the section on environment law that carry jail time for violations. The KAR can be accessed at the website of the LRC, just like the KRS.
Yesterday at 8:48 - No, I do not believe that a restriction, in and of itself, will land you in jail...I do believe that both terms result in the same outcome...a infringement on our 2A guarantee by either the state or a private citizen. - OC for ME
Is my statement, cited above, the source of confusion?
 

gutshot II

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Is my statement, cited above, the source of confusion?
No. It is not the "source". It is an indication of confusion. I said that a "regulation" could land you in jail and then you replied that you did not believe that a "restriction" could land you in jail. I believe that you have "confused" my use of the word REGULATION with the word that you wrote, RESTRICTION.
 

gutshot II

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Administrative Regulations are not law. The executive branch has no power to create laws or create crimes. All the administrative agencies' power are encompassed within the statutory law. If the law does not grant them power to address a particular subject, then any such regulation doing so would be void. And, an administrative regulation contrary to the constitution would, also, be void.

Example: in the end, the federal administrative bump stock ban will be found to be outside the law.
Well, the Ky. Legislative Research Commission disagrees with you. In Ky., the Ky. Administrative Regulations are law. Open this link and click on the tab near the top for "Ky. Law" and see what you get: https://legislature.ky.gov/pages/index.aspx
 
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OC for ME

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I see, my post #48 and your post, #49, is where we departed ways in this discussion. No biggie.
Well, the Ky. Legislative Research Commission disagrees with you. In Ky. the Ky. Administrative Regulations are law. Open this link and click on the tab near the top for "Ky. Law" and see what you get: https://legislature.ky.gov/pages/index.aspx
ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATION - An enactment of law by an executive branch agency or department, under authority granted by the General Assembly.

I'ma thinking that a regulation is not a law...but, the KYGA has delegated its authority to create "laws" to a state agency...in any event, restrictions are created by laws and regulations...which, when either, law or regulation, are applied to our 2A guarantee...our right is infringed.

Legislators need to be held to account for their votes and they delegating their responsibility/accountability to a unelected bureaucrat is diabolical and flat out tyranny at its finest...this scheme must stop!
 

Ghost1958

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Well, the Ky. Legislative Research Commission disagrees with you. In Ky., the Ky. Administrative Regulations are law. Open this link and click on the tab near the top for "Ky. Law" and see what you get: https://legislature.ky.gov/pages/index.aspx
Only if that authority is granted by the GA. It isnt in every case.

Example. There are restrictions on where a person can carry in Ky.
But the worst a person can be charged with for breaking them is criminal tresspass.

And only then if one refuses to leave.
 

gutshot II

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I see, my post #48 and your post, #49, is where we departed ways in this discussion. No biggie.


I'ma thinking that a regulation is not a law...but, the KYGA has delegated its authority to create "laws" to a state agency...in any event, restrictions are created by laws and regulations...which, when either, law or regulation, are applied to our 2A guarantee...our right is infringed.

Legislators need to be held to account for their votes and they delegating their responsibility/accountability to a unelected bureaucrat is diabolical and flat out tyranny at its finest...this scheme must stop!
What and how can be regulated is narrowly defined and closely watched. I have been successful in getting two AR's repealed. One was the Ky. Nature Preserves that prohibited the possession of all firearms in a Nature Preserve. After months of fighting with them, they finally relented. One of the big problems was that the Preserves, in many cases, overlap parts of our state park's and there was no delineation or signs. You could just step right in without knowing. The penalty was a forfeiture of the firearm. When public hearings were held on the amendment of the AR, it was held at 9 o'clock at the Nature Preserve's office in Frankfort on a Wednesday. I was the only attendee, as was their plan, I suppose. When I arrived, there were no chairs set up and the room was full of junk. They assumed that no one would come, as is SOP. The second was the Ky. State Fair Board had an AR from the 70's. No guns on Fair Board property. The Fair Board manages the Fair and Exposition Center and Ky. Convention Center, both in Louisville and both very large facilities. At one time they also managed the Yum! Center. I argued with them for almost 3 years. No dice. Finally, I sent a letter to the two chairs of the Administrative Regulation Subcommittee of the General Assembly. I was invited to attend the next monthly meeting of that subcommittee and the Chairman of the Fair Board was also "invited". I got the impression that my invitation was much more voluntary than his. During the hearing he was told that only they could legislate guns in Ky. and he was usurping their authority and he had better fix it or they would fix it and he would not like the way they fixed it. They also told him that the RA was no place for anything that touched on a constitutional matter. That RA was repealed.
 

OC for ME

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Excellent work! I have used your posts on these types of interactions you have had in Kentucy with agencies and legislators as the foundation of my efforts to gain similar results in Missouri. My efforts do not always gain immediate results but perseverance usually wins the day. Your experiences are a valuable resource. Thank you for you hard works...and for sharing your efforts and their results.
 

color of law

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Well, the Ky. Legislative Research Commission disagrees with you. In Ky., the Ky. Administrative Regulations are law. Open this link and click on the tab near the top for "Ky. Law" and see what you get: https://legislature.ky.gov/pages/index.aspx
Just because you paint pig on the side of a cow doesn't make the cow a pig.

Based on your theory any agency could pump out any law they want. All an agency can do is write their interpretation of the law and/or enforce their authority the law bestows upon the agency.

Regulations are not laws. Regulations are rules or orders having force of law issued by an executive authority of government.
 
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gutshot II

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Just because you paint pig on the side of a cow doesn't make the cow a pig.

Based on your theory any agency could pump out any law they want. All an agency can do is write their interpretation of the law and/or enforce their authority the law bestows upon the agency.

Regulations are not laws. Regulations are rules or orders having force of law issued by an executive authority of government.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/administrative+law

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/administrative-law.asp

How many more you want. I got plenty.

No they can't "pump out any law they want". As I clearly posted above, they are "clearly limited by statute and closely monitored by the General Assembly." This is common practice in all levels of government, state, local and Federal and has been so for centuries. That is quite a long time to keep paint on that cow. If statutes had to be written for every policy and regulation necessary for the operation of all government agencies that government would grind to a halt under the sheer number of items to be dealt with. It is unreasonable to expect legislators to be knowledgable on the interworkings of all the issues that every state or federal agency deals with to be able to write such legislation. Limited authority is delegated to the agencies and the knowledgable people running those agencies that are expert in that field under the watchful eye of the legislature.
 
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OC for ME

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https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/administrative+law

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/administrative-law.asp

How many more you want. I got plenty.

No they can't "pump out any law they want". As I clearly posted above, they are "clearly limited by statute and closely monitored by the General Assembly." This is common practice in all levels of government, state, local and Federal and has been so for centuries. That is quite a long time to keep paint on that cow. If statutes had to be written for every policy and regulation necessary for the operation of all government agencies that government would grind to a halt under the sheer number of items to be dealt with. It is unreasonable to expect legislators to be knowledgable [sic] on the interworkings [sic] of all the issues that every state or federal agency deals with to be able to write such legislation. Limited authority is delegated to the agencies and the knowledgable people running those agencies that are expert in that field under the watchful eye of the legislature.
..."watchful eye of the legislature"...now that right there is funny...I don't care who are...

Anyway, if the legislature had a watchful eye, then a simple one time communication with your respective state reps would mitigate all of our works to reign in wayward state/county/municipal agents and agencies...as in gunbuster signs posted where they are not authorized by the legislature's enactments to be posted.

Example:
Me: [Call state rep]...Hey, this gubmint building has a gunbuster sign posted...they ain't got no authority to post that there sign!

State Rep: You are right, can I put you on hold?...[on hold elevator music]...OK, are you still there? Great, I just talked to that office and the signs are coming down right now.

Me: Great, thanks, I'ma gunna go over a verify that those fellas took down that gunbuster sign. I'll call you back in a bit...thanks Mr. State Rep...you are awesome! You gots my vote next time around.
 
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color of law

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https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/administrative+law

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/administrative-law.asp

How many more you want. I got plenty.

No they can't "pump out any law they want". As I clearly posted above, they are "clearly limited by statute and closely monitored by the General Assembly." This is common practice in all levels of government, state, local and Federal and has been so for centuries. That is quite a long time to keep paint on that cow. If statutes had to be written for every policy and regulation necessary for the operation of all government agencies that government would grind to a halt under the sheer number of items to be dealt with. It is unreasonable to expect legislators to be knowledgable on the interworkings of all the issues that every state or federal agency deals with to be able to write such legislation. Limited authority is delegated to the agencies and the knowledgable people running those agencies that are expert in that field under the watchful eye of the legislature.
It’s is obvious you only know what you read. The problem is you have no knowledge of the origin/history of what you read. Your claim that administrative procedure has been around in all levels of government, state, local and Federal, for centuries is flat wrong. The federal Administrative Procedure Act wasn’t enacted until 1946, not even a century ago. Then the states followed suit.

Administrative law is created by administrative agencies in the form of rules, regulations, orders, and decisions of which is called law, hence, painting pig on the side of a cow and calling the cow a pig. Administrative law or procedure is the processes before an administrative agency, also known as an Article II court, as distinguished from judicial procedures which takes place before an Article III court.

You can be right for all the wrong reasons.
 
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