Carrying firearms at relatives residence.

[22Luke36]

Removed: Advocating violence

 

[22Luke36]

Let's review...

Removed

 

[Raggs]

You could have simply answered the question. Now everyone knows that you claimed that the reason you deleted my post was because it allegedly advocated violence. Now I'm not going to let that happen. Everyone can think Im an A hole, but I have shown you to be a liar and a coward.

not at all, you have shown that you are in fact an Ahole just as you said. Most people here know better than to claim that DrTodd is a coward OR a liar, you have zero credibility.

 

[22Luke36]

Show off

All you have to do, is read the thread. Credibility would be redundant, it's all there in front of you to verify on your own.

It's right there in post # 101 REMOVED ADVOCATING VIOLENCE.

liar

You could have simply answered the question. Now everyone knows that you claimed that the reason you deleted my post was because it allegedly advocated violence. Now I'm not going to let that happen. Everyone can think Im an A hole, but I have shown you to be a liar and a coward.

Ok, if I'm wrong, how so?

Every person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.

Any law, 227 for instance, that keeps a person from being armed with whatever they choose, wherever they choose, however they choose, whenever they choose, is...

unconstitutional.

violence? Where?

 

[DrTodd]

22Luke36,

I think I'll just give you the stage you so desperately need and let John deal with it...have at it.

 

[OneForAll]

I don't see how any post aside the whole "hanging or firing line for officials who over step their bounds", that would advocate violence.... More of a rant, just my opinion.

 

[22Luke36]

22Luke36,

I think I'll just give you the stage you so desperately need and let John deal with it...have at it.

Well I know he is going to ban me. This wasn't done in naivety.

Im not going to sit here and watch you delete a post I made claiming that it had advocated violence when I clearly did not.

I have no problem with violence in its time and place. I do not advocate random acts of criminal violence against innocent. Violence against tyranny however is a duty.The state of the country has dissolved to a point which it cannot be recovered without it. That is the unfortunate cost of freedom.We see things like... "Our forefathers would have been shooting already" is a very very common phrase you see stuck to a patriotic photo of some sort. We see this everywhere now and for very good reasons.

Just don't claim that I said something I didn't even if I would, just because you wanted to avoid the question.

Sorry.

 

[Jared]

It isn't mental gymnastics. More like walking across a room.

Every person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state. MCL 750.227 CLEARLY and directly contradicts that right.

I really really hate people like you who turn the law into what it has become. The reason for that disdain is because it will someday lead to loss of life on a grand scale.

Get over yourself, you don't even know me. I'm sure you are a constitutional ranger but keep in mind that as George Bush said, "it's just a god damn piece of paper". The fact of the matter is that ALL governments are just people calling themselves the state and they have men with guns who back up their dictates.

The constitution started to be ignored before the ink even dried on the paper. In fact, the constitution was "unconstitutional" because the Articles of Confederation never had a mechanism for repeal.

The bottom line is that whatever your believes are don't really matter because people calling themselves the state of Michigan will enforce 750.227 against you regardless of if it is constitutional or not.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in your semantic arguments just as the 15 dead people in Yemen from the accidental drone strike were killed without due process, the fact that it was "unconstitutional" doesn't change the fact that they are dead.

By the way, why do you "really hate people like" me? Didn't Jesus preach peace and love or are you one of the pharisees that Jesus warned about?

 

[Jared]

22Luke36,

I think I'll just give you the stage you so desperately need and let John deal with it...have at it.

That would be wise. Apparently he's gotten to the point of killing for Jesus. He's got anger issues and I hope his Jesus can calm him down before he does something stupid and sets the movement back.

 

[22Luke36]

Not surprising words coming from a fed.

You're right about the hate. I could forgive a person, for anything. I hate what people like you have done to my country.

 

[Jared]

Not surprising words coming from a fed.

You're right about the hate. I could forgive a person, for anything. I hate what people like you have done to my country.

I'm willing to bet I've done more for the 2nd Amendment than you have, but I'm not interested in matching pedigree with you.

FYI, it's not "your country", all public property is considered property of the government (people calling themselves the state) and technically, so is private property if you don't pay the rental fees (property tax). Call it for what it is. The constitution has some great ideas (Bill of Rights) but that's all it is. As Lysander Spooner said, either the Constitution authorized the tyranny that exists today or it was too weak to stop it, either way, it's ultimately a useless document because it has no enforcement mechanism.

Did you know that the U.S. also claims worldwide jurisdiction so even if you moved to Japan and never came back the U.S. still claims you owe them taxes, if that's not evidence that you are not as "free" as you would think, I don't know what is.

Again, you speak from ignorance and don't know anything about me, except that I don't advocate killing people in the name of Jesus. Perhaps you can listen to Dan Carlin's hardcore history and actually learn something instead of advocating violence behind a keyboard from God knows where.

 

[22Luke36]

I'm not talking about killing people in the name of Jesus. He did tell His followers to carry arms. I don't check with some politician to see if it's ok.

Everything you said is true regarding governments and power. You have presented two sides, the governments and the people. One against the other. I will always side with the people who will be free. The only ones who are free, are those who throw off their bonds.

 

[DrTodd]

Get over yourself, you don't even know me. I'm sure you are a constitutional ranger but keep in mind that as George Bush said, "it's just a god damn piece of paper". The fact of the matter is that ALL governments are just people calling themselves the state and they have men with guns who back up their dictates.

The constitution started to be ignored before the ink even dried on the paper. In fact, the constitution was "unconstitutional" because the Articles of Confederation never had a mechanism for repeal.

The bottom line is that whatever your believes are don't really matter because people calling themselves the state of Michigan will enforce 750.227 against you regardless of if it is constitutional or not.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in your semantic arguments just as the 15 dead people in Yemen from the accidental drone strike were killed without due process, the fact that it was "unconstitutional" doesn't change the fact that they are dead.

By the way, why do you "really hate people like" me? Didn't Jesus preach peace and love or are you one of the pharisees that Jesus warned about?

Jared, it's really not worth it.
He is apparently so wrapped up in his own narcissism that he can't get beyond his initial (mis)understanding regarding most anything. Much like his ineptitude for not even considering that my reason for deleting one post where I explicitly stated "advocating violence" applied to me deleting all of his posts after he advocated violence, his prepubescent behavior continues unabated.
You and I have had civil disagreements in the past and I have never felt that you were doing anything less than presenting an argument logically; I always enjoy discussions especially those in which I can learn something. This person's posts, however, generally add nothing to be helpful; at best they tend to be a distraction in an otherwise informative conversation and, at their worst, they are perfect examples of what not to do.
It is truly best to just ignore him because doing anything else is akin to feeding in to a 3 year-old's tantrum.

 

[Jared]

I'm not talking about killing people in the name of Jesus. He did tell His followers to carry arms. I don't check with some politician to see if it's ok.

Everything you said is true regarding governments and power. You have presented two sides, the governments and the people. One against the other. I will always side with the people who will be free. The only ones who are free, are those who throw off their bonds.

Good, then you realize that the only way one could truly be free ALSO involves leaving your neighbor alone, no matter if they are gay or whatever the boogeyman excuse is.

Most people aren't interested in freedom and neither are most gun owners. Case in point, Ron Paul only received about a million votes.

So people are suppose to start a revolution yet they couldn't even get off their collective fat butts and vote for Ron Paul?

Either they are that lazy or they are only absolutist on the 2nd amendment but support intrusion or outright tyranny in other areas of freedom and government... especially when it comes to drugs, taxes, sexuality or property rights.

Even though I decided the 2nd amendment is my pet issue and "the hill to die on" if you will even I get tired of 2nd amendment rangers who are totally inconsistent with other areas of liberty.

Although I can't speak for you because I don't know, it is my experience that many in the Jesus crowd are very interested in the arm of the state controlling the lives of people that they don't approve of, all they care about are their guns and their view of Christianity.


Anyway, back on topic. 750.227 has been thoroughly explained and whether you like it or not, that's what it says. Just as I despise Australia's gun laws, there is nothing I can do about it.

 

[22Luke36]

Good, then you realize that the only way one could truly be free ALSO involves leaving your neighbor alone, no matter if they are gay or whatever the boogeyman excuse is.

Most people aren't interested in freedom and neither are most gun owners. Case in point, Ron Paul only received about a million votes.

So people are suppose to start a revolution yet they couldn't even get off their collective fat butts and vote for Ron Paul?

Either they are that lazy or they are only absolutist on the 2nd amendment but support intrusion or outright tyranny in other areas of freedom and government... especially when it comes to drugs, taxes, sexuality or property rights.

Even though I decided the 2nd amendment is my pet issue and "the hill to die on" if you will even I get tired of 2nd amendment rangers who are totally inconsistent with other areas of liberty.

Although I can't speak for you because I don't know, it is my experience that many in the Jesus crowd are very interested in the arm of the state controlling the lives of people that they don't approve of, all they care about are their guns and their view of Christianity.


Anyway, back on topic. 750.227 has been thoroughly explained and whether you like it or not, that's what it says. Just as I despise Australia's gun laws, there is nothing I can do about it.

At least you're working for the side that suits you.

Irony. Freedom can only be possessed by criminals.

 

[Jared]

Jared, it's really not worth it.
He is apparently so wrapped up in his own narcissism that he can't get beyond his initial (mis)understanding regarding most anything. Much like his ineptitude for not even considering that my reason for deleting one post where I explicitly stated "advocating violence" applied to me deleting all of his posts after he advocated violence, his prepubescent behavior continues unabated.
You and I have had civil disagreements in the past and I have never felt that you were doing anything less than presenting an argument logically; I always enjoy discussions especially those in which I can learn something. This person's posts, however, generally add nothing to be helpful; at best they tend to be a distraction in an otherwise informative conversation and, at their worst, they are perfect examples of what not to do.
It is truly best to just ignore him because doing anything else is akin to feeding in to a 3 year-old's tantrum.

LOL, I remember our disagreement, which I was definitely wrong about.

I understand where he is coming from, but I would honestly rather put him on to a positive message, perhaps the Free State Project, perhaps listening to the Liberty Radio Network.

I honestly believe him to be frustrated by things and I understand to a large degree. Although I am not a Libertarian, I am a libertarian.

I don't think he's a troll and I honestly think he's just not sure what the solution is to 2A issues or to issues of government/use of force in general.

I do know that reading his comments is sometimes easier to do than it is to deal with some of the folks on migunowners

 

[Jared]

At least you're working for the side that suits you.

Don't we all?

I'm going out on a limb here and say that I doubt you are working on the side of peaceful Muslims.

 

[22Luke36]

LOL, I remember our disagreement, which I was definitely wrong about.

I understand where he is coming from, but I would honestly rather put him on to a positive message, perhaps the Free State Project, perhaps listening to the Liberty Radio Network.

I honestly believe him to be frustrated by things and I understand to a large degree. Although I am not a Libertarian, I am a libertarian.

I don't think he's a troll and I honestly think he's just not sure what the solution is to 2A issues or to issues of government/use of force in general.

I do know that reading his comments is sometimes easier to do than it is to deal with some of the folks on migunowners

Honestly the best post I've read all day. Very true. Don't hate me because I value freedom enough to want to kill those who threaten it. Foreign enemies are someone elses problem, it's the domestic enemies, those who are supposed to protect these freedoms but are the cause of it's loss that really get me in a flame.

and no, I don't work with peaceful muslims. If there is such a thing.

 

[Jared]

Honestly the best post I've read all day. Very true. Don't hate me because I value freedom enough to want to kill those who threaten it. Foreign enemies are someone elses problem, it's the domestic enemies, those who are supposed to protect these freedoms but are the cause of it's loss that really get me in a flame.

I don't hate you at all.

See, that's the logic I don't get. You are obviously Christian, so where did Jesus divide people up by artificial lines in the sand? Where did he say only to worry about your "American neighbors"?

Aren't all human beings equal in the eyes of God?

This is what I mean, you judge me because my issue for the most part is the 2nd Amendment and you obviously resent that I'm not some liberty warrior in the mold that you would like me to be YET, you are not interested in the liberty of people outside of the United States.

So you can narrow down liberty and what's important are wrap yourself up in the paladin cloak

That is hypocritical. So would you rather me be a jack booted thug fed who makes it a point to go around and trip people up on the Federal Gun Free Schools Act and make felons out of people??? That's a rush to judgement just as it would be a rush to judgement for me to think that you wish all the brown Muslims in the middle east just die because it's "foreign" and they aren't real Christians after all.

 

[DrTodd]

LOL, I remember our disagreement, which I was definitely wrong about.

I understand where he is coming from, but I would honestly rather put him on to a positive message, perhaps the Free State Project, perhaps listening to the Liberty Radio Network.

I honestly believe him to be frustrated by things and I understand to a large degree. Although I am not a Libertarian, I am a libertarian.

I don't think he's a troll and I honestly think he's just not sure what the solution is to 2A issues or to issues of government/use of force in general.

I do know that reading his comments is sometimes easier to do than it is to deal with some of the folks on migunowners

I really don't even remember what were were discussing then so...it must not have been that important. :lol:

I generally agree with the rest of your post as "possible" but "unlikely". I tend to let conversations go where they may. I don't think I've ever actually "deleted" a thread before... and maybe a few posts, most actually being a request from the OP to delete. But besides that , really, the only issue I had, prior to his increasing insertion of violence coupled with his general agitation, was him giving his various versions of "It's Unconstitutional" as if somehow that actually might help someone. But granted, frustration could account for this as well as mental or social defect could. I also acknowledge it is pretty common across the internet, too.

You know, maybe me having to do 6 mental health evaluations in the last week makes me a bit wary. The repetitive nature of his posts coupled with other indicators that I may be a bit attuned to makes me draw the conclusions I do. I'll grant that, too. I still posit that his unwillingness to accept anything that contradicts his internal dialogue as worrisome. But, you certainly can be encouraged that at least he's finally acknowledged a small point in your conversation. Since this anomaly could be explained any number of ways, I'd hold off until I see the pattern. I'd just need to see this across a number of different posts at various times to actually believe it's anything other than an outlier. But, by all means....rehabilitate away. LOL But, the bridge has likely been burned with me so...you are on your own there

By the way, I may be aging myself but RP was the first person I voted for in a PRESIDENTIAL election. I was pretty active with the LP in my youth, and eventually dropped back when the Koch brothers became more involved. (More on the Karl Hess side, I'm afraid.)