Armed citizen takes down auto thief

[tombrewster421]

Sorry, but except for possibly making it relevant to an OC forum (actually it's irrelevant here), mention of lawfully armed IS begging the question of a 'super citizen' acting as if they are some kind of neighborhood cop. Walking Wolf is the voice of reason here among you blood-thirsty cowboy types here. i have to wonder if being on a forum gets you all PMSing, how in the world are you handling the real world. Carry a gun but act as if you are NOT carrying a gun. Works in 99.99% of cases and keeps you safe. You have a gun and stride out to the parking lot all macho, eschewing management's offer of a clerk to help you and a 14 yo with a saturdaynightspecial sees you as a lone target and gets the drop on you and he shoots you trying to resist, or you shoot him. EPIC FAIL.

And why didn't mr macho super gun lawfully armed person accept the help that dark and stormy night? Because he was full of himself - i.e. self-delusional.

DON'T DO IT.

Let insurance companies handle bank robberies, car thefts, 7-11 robberies. Be a good witness, get a license number.

In fact had he not been carrying a 2lb firearm he might have caught her sooner.

So I should accept the help out from the 16 yo girl when I'm capable of carrying my own bags that way the thug might just decide he wants to take her from the parking lot at gunpoint and go rape her.

Not really sure how a young courtesy clerk is going to dissuade a would be robber. That's why we're armed! Duh! So we don't have to hope for others to defend us.

 

[OC for ME]

OK, I'll ask the question.

What did you do, or other cops do, to the "later to be learned LAC" holding a "later to be learned criminal" at gun point?

I'm not sure about your jurisdiction, but in my jurisdiction the cops in my little town get really nervous when they roll up to one citizen holding another citizen at gun point. I've been told that really bad things can happen in those situations. I'll go with the "let it go and call my insurance agent after reporting my car stolen to police" crowd.

By the way, I'm not very appreciative of being proned out just cuz a cop sees me holding a gun to a criminal. Especially when I have described the scene they will see before they see it.

 

[GreatWhiteLlama]

Sorry, but except for possibly making it relevant to an OC forum (actually it's irrelevant here), mention of lawfully armed IS begging the question of a 'super citizen' acting as if they are some kind of neighborhood cop. Walking Wolf is the voice of reason here among you blood-thirsty cowboy types here. i have to wonder if being on a forum gets you all PMSing, how in the world are you handling the real world. Carry a gun but act as if you are NOT carrying a gun. Works in 99.99% of cases and keeps you safe. You have a gun and stride out to the parking lot all macho, eschewing management's offer of a clerk to help you and a 14 yo with a saturdaynightspecial sees you as a lone target and gets the drop on you and he shoots you trying to resist, or you shoot him. EPIC FAIL.

And why didn't mr macho super gun lawfully armed person accept the help that dark and stormy night? Because he was full of himself - i.e. self-delusional.

DON'T DO IT.

Let insurance companies handle bank robberies, car thefts, 7-11 robberies. Be a good witness, get a license number.

In fact had he not been carrying a 2lb firearm he might have caught her sooner.

I love your sarcasm font. It is ever so subtle.

 

[PALO]

Exactly! The idea that we are sheep who must wait for our dogs to act is silly.

I find it a refreshing story and refreshing that it comes from the viewpoint of an LEO.

Average citizens, not cops, are the first line of defense against crime. A substantial # of criminals we catch where I work are either because a citizen is following the criminal until we arrive, the citizen is detaining the criminal (sometimes at gunpoint), etc.

In another thread, some people were wanking that it wasn't their responsibility to effect change in their local PD vis a vis response to OCers and to people filming cops, but of course imo it IS a civic duty to hold your local PD accountable and to work for change when needed. That's tangential but important. Some people would rather complain about how things are, then do some very simple and effective actions to change them for the better. That's disgusting to me, but typical of a lot of armchair warriors here and elsewhere. If your local PD isn't properly responding to OCers and to people filming them, attend a community meeting or other forum where the cops are there to take citizen input and effect change. That's a civic duty, imo

In this story, it is correct that the citizen did not use his gun, apart from carrying it, but he told me that he of course wouldn't have given chase if he hadn't been armed. It gave him the confidence to go after the bad guy and the means to protect himself if stuff went sour.

And if he had used his gun, statistics show that overwhelmingly so it;s almost always the mere use of the gun WITHOUT firing it that gets the job accomplished. For every time a citizen has to actually fire his gun, there are probably dozens, if not scores of incidents where they accomplish their goal (defense andor detaining the bad guy) by merely drawing their gun. No shots required.

Citizens are under no obligation to wait for the cops when a crime is being committed against them, or their property. And thankfully, at least where i work, they often don't. It's not vigilantism, vigilantism is trying to act as judge and jury to punish and hunt down people you don't think the authorities are taking care of. Responding to crime against yourself or your property is the absolute right of every citizen, just like self defense

 

[WalkingWolf]

Most citizen arrest/detentions are made by unarmed citizens and security from my experience. I don't have a problem with a armed citizen making a lawful detention, I do have a problem with someone feeling empowered to make non lethal confrontations because of a firearm. It is bad for our image, it is a disaster in the making.

George Zimmerman made a logistical error that almost cost him his life. One that a competent police officer would not have made. I have no idea if him being armed played a part, but if it did then he could have saved himself enormous grief by waiting for police to arrive. A intelligent well trained police officer would have waited for backup. The thought of a LEO running around encouraging this type of behavior is frightening, irresponsible, and if my employee would get him fired if he did not stop.

I still would like a citation, or a report number. This is not a case from memory but a current event. The story or implications have changed several times in this story. And I must admit I am having a hard time believing a citizen outran a fleeing motor vehicle.

Let's not forget either the thousands of arrests the Bobbies make unarmed. This incident as described has nothing to do with OC or RKBA. Other than suddenly when challenged the OP claims the only reason the citizen acted was because he was armed. Hogwash!

 

[amlevin]

I love these threads in the WA State part of the forum that draw all the legal experts from the other side of the Country, telling us what's legal and what's not here.

It's really simple. One can use force to stop a felony in progress as long as they only use sufficient force. Deadly force becomes justified when the circumstances put one in fear of their life. That is, here in WA State it's OK.

It's also legal if someone's stealing your car to use a golf club. Referring to the case near Kent where the car owner accosted the car thief and was bit. From that point it was "game on" and the the thief succumbed to a "chip shot".

FWIW, I have no concern about what might happen in a similar circumstance in South Carolina. Been there, didn't loose anything there, and see no reason to return and find it.