• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

Midwest

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
305
Location
Boone County, KY
Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

They were cops with real police powers, they even helped Newark and Elizabeth police. But a judge and the state police seem to say they weren't real police. You know it's bad in New Jersey when two former cops in good standing can't get a carry permit.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/0...ired-cops-from-carrying-concealed-weapon.html



"Kotchkowski and Dunsmuir both contend they worked for a state agency and thus should be granted a conceal carry permit. But the wording of the law doesn’t make that so clear, according to the New Jersey State Police, which oversees the permit process.

“How are UMDNJ police not a state law enforcement agency?" Roughneen asked, according to the Star-Ledger. “By that logic, that makes the entire Rutgers police force -- which is one of the largest in the state -- ineligible. And that flies in the face of the intent of the law, which is to increase public safety.”

.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
What a shame, what a shame.

They should have argued that our natural rights allow us to carry. But then they would have to admit to being tyrants.
 

Have Gun - Will Carry

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
290
Location
Kenosha County, Wisconsin
Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

They were cops with real police powers, they even helped Newark and Elizabeth police. But a judge and the state police seem to say they weren't real police. You know it's bad in New Jersey when two former cops in good standing can't get a carry permit.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/0...ired-cops-from-carrying-concealed-weapon.html



"Kotchkowski and Dunsmuir both contend they worked for a state agency and thus should be granted a conceal carry permit. But the wording of the law doesn’t make that so clear, according to the New Jersey State Police, which oversees the permit process.

“How are UMDNJ police not a state law enforcement agency?" Roughneen asked, according to the Star-Ledger. “By that logic, that makes the entire Rutgers police force -- which is one of the largest in the state -- ineligible. And that flies in the face of the intent of the law, which is to increase public safety.”

.
Good! Let them see how it feels to be treated as second class citizens, then maybe they won't feel so "elite". See how those who they ostensibly "protected " feel being disarmed and left defenseless... then see if their attitude changes a bit! (Of course it won't, since they undoubtedly feel entitled to carry, unlike the little people they're surrounded by...)
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,342
Location
White Oak Plantation
Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

They were cops with real police powers, they even helped Newark and Elizabeth police. But a judge and the state police seem to say they weren't real police. You know it's bad in New Jersey when two former cops in good standing can't get a carry permit.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/0...ired-cops-from-carrying-concealed-weapon.html

"Kotchkowski and Dunsmuir both contend they worked for a state agency and thus should be granted a conceal carry permit. But the wording of the law doesn’t make that so clear, according to the New Jersey State Police, which oversees the permit process.

“How are UMDNJ police not a state law enforcement agency?" Roughneen asked, according to the Star-Ledger. “By that logic, that makes the entire Rutgers police force -- which is one of the largest in the state -- ineligible. And that flies in the face of the intent of the law, which is to increase public safety.”

.
Can they pump their own gas as a compromise?
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,461
Location
Dallas
Christie will fix it - he is pro-2A I heard him say....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
NJ law in this case is violating federal law, they can carry concealed without a permit as long as they meet the training requirements. LEOSA gives them the authority no matter what the state police say.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,342
Location
White Oak Plantation
"We know of plenty of cases where campus police were approved, including two recent cases in Middlesex and Burlington (counties)," Roughneen said.
Great, prompt the NJSP to revoke the illegally issued permits.

The real question...why do they have a gun in the first place? It is NJ after all and only the praetorian guard are so blessed.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
First, I obviously agree that they are not elite and should get over it. Fight for OUR rights, not your own.

But, how is this not settled? Are these campus cops not currently state-sworn as LEOs? Or are they just assumed to be LEOs because they have uniforms, badges, guns, and run in a gang?
 
Last edited:

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
NJ law in this case is violating federal law, they can carry concealed without a permit as long as they meet the training requirements. LEOSA gives them the authority no matter what the state police say.
I thought federal law only kicked in once the State in question actually certified a person as a former LEO with appropriate training and credentials.

In this case, NJ is simply saying that these persons were not really full police officer and therefore don't qualify for the former/retired LEO credentials that would allow them to carry under federal law.

If NJ were to try to decide that a campus cop from another State didn't qualify, after the home State had issued credentials, that would violate federal law.

In any event, I'm with most others on this thread in having zero sympathy for these guys. Having a retired cop badge and former cop training provides no more right to carry than does a permit issued by any State or simply being a law-abiding citizen of this nation. Congress should act under its 14th amendment powers to protect our 2nd amendment rights to carry anywhere the US flag flies. Enough with special benefits for cops, retired cops, etc.

Charles
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,261
Location
northern wis
I thought federal law only kicked in once the State in question actually certified a person as a former LEO with appropriate training and credentials.

In this case, NJ is simply saying that these persons were not really full police officer and therefore don't qualify for the former/retired LEO credentials that would allow them to carry under federal law.
A lot would depends on there job description, arrest powers, carrying firearm on duty, or other things that makes one a LEO.

If your a qualified LEO or retired qualified under HR218 it is not up to the state level government to issue ones credentials or give you training. It is more an individual department responsibility if one processes a valid retirement card one can have any qualified LEO instructor qualify you and give you a qualification card to go along with your retirement card under the federal law.

Under NJ law they could very well have job descriptions that could or not make these persons qualified under HR218 or they just might be using the very anti gun attitude that the less people we have armed the better.
 

Brian D.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
916
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA
Maybe their self-proclaimed 2nd Amendment champion, Governor Chrissy, can step in and save the day. Suddenly he has much more time to pursue his current job rather than the one he was applying for.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
A lot would depends on there job description, arrest powers, carrying firearm on duty, or other things that makes one a LEO.

If your a qualified LEO or retired qualified under HR218 it is not up to the state level government to issue ones credentials or give you training. It is more an individual department responsibility if one processes a valid retirement card one can have any qualified LEO instructor qualify you and give you a qualification card to go along with your retirement card under the federal law.

Under NJ law they could very well have job descriptions that could or not make these persons qualified under HR218 or they just might be using the very anti gun attitude that the less people we have armed the better.
Agree, if they had the training, certification, powers of a police officer they are covered whether NJ state idiots recognize them or not. The federal law supersedes conceal carry laws in all states. NJ is not exempt. As long as their last department gives them proper documentation, and they qualify once a year they are covered. I carry very little papers when out and about, though departments are issuing retired ID's one can still get hung up while an active LEO verifies. That is why I prefer OC, I do not have to carry papers or go through the explanation process. And OC is not covered by LEOSA, only CC. I would OC even if CC was legal without permission.
 
Top