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2a amendment preservation act for 2014`

Oramac

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May 25, 2009
Messages
572
Location
St Louis, Mo

mspgunner

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Feb 6, 2009
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1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
Haven't finished reading through the full bill yet, but the link for the Summary is broken. :(

Sorry the summary doesn't work, the OC part is the same as last year. I'm glad they left it in.
I did seek to change it and make it less restictive. I was told it was already "vetted" this year without much objection. Best to take what we can get, this took 4 years of work.

If anyone wants to go for more... feel free. I'm happy after 4 years of busting butt to get anything!
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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White Oak Plantation
The below is provided as a citation.
Arrest. 544.180. An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person of the defendant, or by his submission to the custody of the officer, under authority of a warrant or otherwise. The officer must inform the defendant by what authority he acts, and must also show the warrant if required.
Folks always equate arrest with getting cuffed or physically restrained.....sigh.

Page seven of the draft: A cop can still disarm you under this proposed law. Will a cop disarm you, is a different question. There are cops now who do not disarm OCers and CCers.

Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting or otherwise restricting a health care professional from inquiring, documenting, or otherwise disclosing a patient's status as an owner of a firearm if such inquiry, documentation, or disclosure is necessitated or medically indicated by the health care professional's scope of practice and such inquiry, documentation, or disclosure does not violate any other state or federal law.
When is the disclosure of firearm ownership medically necessary or medically indicated?!? Does this have anything to do with mental capacity? Whose idea was this? Slippery slope?

See page five: There is no criminal penalty for a fed who violates this law. No state, county, or local cop is going to arrest a fed, the wronged citizen must use a civil proceeding. It reads as if a MO cop cannot stop a fed unless someone is willing to define what "duty of" means. Example, a fed can not be arrested for kicking in my door by mistake while enforcing one of the laws MO don't like. And I'll betcha a MO cop will not stop my door getting kicked in wrongly and ultimately unlawfully, by a fed, after this bill is signed into law.

St. Charles County will have a county police force and not a true sheriff's office at some point in the future. How will that work out?
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
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White Oak Plantation
The below is provided as a citation.Folks always equate arrest with getting cuffed or physically restrained.....sigh.

Page seven of the draft: A cop can still disarm you under this proposed law. Will a cop disarm you, is a different question. There are cops now who do not disarm OCers and CCers.

When is the disclosure of firearm ownership medically necessary or medically indicated?!? Does this have anything to do with mental capacity? Whose idea was this? Slippery slope?

See page five: There is no criminal penalty for a fed who violates this law. No state, county, or local cop is going to arrest a fed, the wronged citizen must use a civil proceeding. It reads as if a MO cop cannot stop a fed unless someone is willing to define what "duty of" means. Example, a fed can not be arrested for kicking in my door by mistake while enforcing one of the laws MO don't like. And I'll betcha a MO cop will not stop my door getting kicked in wrongly and ultimately unlawfully, by a fed, after this bill is signed into law.

St. Charles County will have a county police force and not a true sheriff's office at some point in the future. How will that work out?
Never read a summary. The devil is in the details. I am being to finally understand the hurdles that our brave few must face each year. Their dedication is amazing.

Is this proposed bill the best we can get or is it too late to make changes? Changes are needed in my view. Or, do I need to go off on my own and work the items I think need addressing? Working at cross purposes is not very productive and i do not have the ear of many Jeff City denizens, just the ones I vote for.
 

mspgunner

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Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
Break down

Never read a summary. The devil is in the details. I am being to finally understand the hurdles that our brave few must face each year. Their dedication is amazing.

Is this proposed bill the best we can get or is it too late to make changes? Changes are needed in my view. Or, do I need to go off on my own and work the items I think need addressing? Working at cross purposes is not very productive and i do not have the ear of many Jeff City denizens, just the ones I vote for.

The attachment (You'll have to figure out ow to open it) is a comprehensive opinion on the draft.
 

Attachments

  • SAPA-10-31-2013-Senate-Leadership-Draft-2-3-Eval.pdf
    115.8 KB · Views: 110

Brent Hartman

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Feb 27, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Gallatin, Missouri, United States

Brent Hartman

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Gallatin, Missouri, United States
One problem I have with this bill is the following section:

571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

(3) Such person is illegally or unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26).

2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony. (page 21)

Why do I have a problem with this? I'm glad you asked! My old boss immigrated to the United States from England. He became a U.S. citizen, and is a staunch defender of the Constitution. He's very active in the John Birch Society, and loves the 2nd Amendment. While he's a citizen, most of his extended family still live in England. When they come to the United States to visit, they often do all American activities, like shoot guns. Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.
 

Festus_Hagen

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Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
490
Location
Jefferson City, Mo., ,
One problem I have with this bill is the following section:

571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

(3) Such person is illegally or unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26).

2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony. (page 21)

Why do I have a problem with this? I'm glad you asked! My old boss immigrated to the United States from England. He became a U.S. citizen, and is a staunch defender of the Constitution. He's very active in the John Birch Society, and loves the 2nd Amendment. While he's a citizen, most of his extended family still live in England. When they come to the United States to visit, they often do all American activities, like shoot guns. Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.
I, and others, anxiously await the reply you get from your rep and what you get rolling.

Thank you, and good luck sir. :)
 

Brent Hartman

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Feb 27, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Gallatin, Missouri, United States
I, and others, anxiously await the reply you get from your rep and what you get rolling.

Thank you, and good luck sir. :)

Thankfully, Rep. Guernsey requested to be my Facebook friend awhile back. I messaged him basically the same thing I posted here. I'll let you know what he says.

I'm also meeting with my sheriff,
hopefully tomorrow, on the following provision in this bill:

"When a federal agent or employee has belief that a sheriff or a member of the sheriff's staff has breached confidentiality regarding the issuance of warrants within the county, then the federal agent or employee may file a petition supported by probable cause with an associate circuit judge within the respective county requesting a waiver of the requirement to provide notice to the sheriff." (Page 11)

Being that he's a supporter of CSPOA, I'm curious as to what he thinks of this federal end around to his authority as sheriff.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
<snip>

Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.
Very good observation. A response will be interesting to read. However, baby steps as they say.
 

Festus_Hagen

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Feb 19, 2010
Messages
490
Location
Jefferson City, Mo., ,
Thankfully, Rep. Guernsey requested to be my Facebook friend awhile back. I messaged him basically the same thing I posted here. I'll let you know what he says.

I'm also meeting with my sheriff,
hopefully tomorrow, on the following provision in this bill:

"When a federal agent or employee has belief that a sheriff or a member of the sheriff's staff has breached confidentiality regarding the issuance of warrants within the county, then the federal agent or employee may file a petition supported by probable cause with an associate circuit judge within the respective county requesting a waiver of the requirement to provide notice to the sheriff." (Page 11)

Being that he's a supporter of CSPOA, I'm curious as to what he thinks of this federal end around to his authority as sheriff.
Good to hear. Please do keep us, or at least me, posted. :)
 

Primus

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Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
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United States
One problem I have with this bill is the following section:

571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

(3) Such person is illegally or unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26).

2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony. (page 21)

Why do I have a problem with this? I'm glad you asked! My old boss immigrated to the United States from England. He became a U.S. citizen, and is a staunch defender of the Constitution. He's very active in the John Birch Society, and loves the 2nd Amendment. While he's a citizen, most of his extended family still live in England. When they come to the United States to visit, they often do all American activities, like shoot guns. Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.

There's no exception for range time? I'm assuming there is one for minors, like taking your kid to the range. In MA it basically reads that you need to be with a licensed person and under their supervision. So range time is covered, but wal mart isn't.
 

Brent Hartman

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Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Gallatin, Missouri, United States
There's no exception for range time? I'm assuming there is one for minors, like taking your kid to the range. In MA it basically reads that you need to be with a licensed person and under their supervision. So range time is covered, but wal mart isn't.

Sadly, I've not found any exception for range time in the bill. This bill operates on the premise that the RKBA is a priveldge granted by government, and not an inalienable right.
 

Redbaron007

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Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
One problem I have with this bill is the following section:

571.070. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if such person knowingly has any firearm in his or her possession and:

(3) Such person is illegally or unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa as defined in 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26).

2. Unlawful possession of a firearm is a class C felony. (page 21)

Why do I have a problem with this? I'm glad you asked! My old boss immigrated to the United States from England. He became a U.S. citizen, and is a staunch defender of the Constitution. He's very active in the John Birch Society, and loves the 2nd Amendment. While he's a citizen, most of his extended family still live in England. When they come to the United States to visit, they often do all American activities, like shoot guns. Under this law, if one of his visiting relatives picked up a gun at the gun range, they would be committing a class C felony. Leave it to Missouri to make them feel right at home.

You are free to try and change it. If not, no offense, then maybe they could visit in a state that doesn't prohibit foreign tourist from possessing a firearm. :confused:
 

Brent Hartman

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Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Gallatin, Missouri, United States
Good to hear. Please do keep us, or at least me, posted. :)

I just heard back from Rep. Guernsey. I'm not going to go into everything he said, but he did thank me for bringing these issues to light. He said that until January we are essentially in a holding pattern. He said, "I absolutely intend to be very involved with this legislation as its more important than ever to address these serious issues."

It's not like this bill is set in stone. We have time to make some much needed changes.

I didn't get the opportunity to meet with my sheriff this week, but I will be meeting with him next week on the other issue I brought up with this bill.
 

Brent Hartman

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Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
62
Location
Gallatin, Missouri, United States
I met with my sheriff yesterday. I had him read the part of the bill regarding sheriffs. He was not happy, and said that he and some other constitutional sheriffs will be in Jeff City opposing that part of the bill. He doesn't like the idea of Feds having a loophole to undermine his authority.

Later!
 

Griz

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Feb 14, 2010
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2nd Amendment Preservation Act Part II

http://communities.washingtontimes....ri-bill-would-nullify-all-federal-gun-laws-p/

"JEFFERSON CITY, Mo., December 17, 2013 — In Missouri, legislation has been introduced to nullify every federal gun control measure on the books, “whether past, present or future.”

The 2nd Amendment Preservation Act, introduced as Senate Bill 613 (SB613) for the 2014 legislative session by Sen. Brian Nieves, follows on the heels of a failed effort to do the same in 2013."

shoulda scrolled down the forum further. sorry for the double post.
 
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