Missouri's nullification bill a sham!

I don't know a single person that disagrees with the ultimate objective of unrestricted OC everywhere, including LMTD and myself. And there's very little he and I agree on ;-) The political reality is that we're not getting that this year, and probably not next year. I believe this bill to be a route to get there though, and that's why I'm willing to settle for it. If not, I'd have lobbied for that change to be removed, as would have everyone else in support of it here.

I'm going to tell you the truth, I figured you were focused on the rights vs. privileges line, and I really really want someone to answer the following question.

If HB1439 passes and is signed by the Governor, what right will you have on August 27th that you will lose on August 28th?

If someone can demonstrate a loss of rights, then I'm happy to fight against it. But up to now, nobody has answered that question. Therefore, I have to assume all of their comments are made either out of willful ignorance or stupidity.

If you are going to tell me this is the camel's nose under the tent, I'll respect your right to say that. I won't believe you, because the arc of politics in MIssouri the past decade show an increasing liberalizing of firearms laws. It moves in fits and spurts, but it moves. And based on our state's history, and other firearms issues before the Legislature, I have no reason to think that will change in a timeframe that concerns me.

kcgunfan said:

If HB1439 passes and is signed by the Governor, what right will you have on August 27th that you will lose on August 28th?

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I agree there are no rights lost if this bill passes and I should have stated that I will take what they give as long as they aren't taking away anything. I also believe in time things will change for the better....it's a frustrating road and we all need to hang in there and stay positive.

Thanks,

Ray

So does Nixon now have the Bill???? I would wager he will veto just his nature and more waiting on our end.

No he doesn't. Both this bill and SJR36 have been pulled from the third read calendar for today, so we're back to limbo. Maybe they'll put it back sometime.

jad316 said:

So does Nixon now have the Bill???? I would wager he will veto just his nature and more waiting on our end.

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unbelievable..... really not shocked by this but it's just sad!!!!!! we can't get a bill through the first time.

There are a bunch of reasons for why a bill could be postponed. I would not press the conspiracy button until Friday, since the House didn't get the returned bill until last Friday.

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The bill sucks, it is absolutely pathetic we are even here discussing it.

The government has no say so on your right to speech nor your right to arms. Before you bring the "fire in a theater" argument forward, you need to research it and see if what you have been told for eons has ever been true and then be prepared to cite case law.

There were no clauses ever in our constitution that indicated in any way that the rights were "regulated" rights and the simple fact that SCOTUS has shifted away from raw interpretation to political fodder does not change what is written.

That said, I am preaching to the choir here, but the reality is the government has overstepped their bounds repeatedly over the years and reversing it takes time, effort and money. If you believe the bill takes steps to reverse it, then by all means it is a move forward, if you do not, then by all means oppose it.

If you are going to wait until we get a full absolute constitutional carry bill in MO you are going to be disappointed for a great many years. Let no one forget, even when put to a POPULAR vote, PROP B for CCW went down in flames by a significant percentage, perhaps even as high as the percentage voting from the grave yards of STL, the point is it lost big time.

The bill does not achieve the goals I want, I think it is poorly written, however it is not so poor I am going to oppose it. I have pressed OC preemption for this state for four or five years now and it has NEVER managed to even get a hearing, took 7 to get CCW so the fight ain't over no matter what some lame troll from NC proclaims. When he starts cleaning up the things within his own state such as the permit to acquire with record retention for even private sales I may look at following his lead, until then I am going to brush him off as the troll he is.

So, would you care to have a stab at my question above?

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OK, both HB 1439 and SJR 36 are back on the calendar for tomorrow.

Somebody got their feewings hurt for being exposed as a statist. NOW trying to backtrack and changing tunes. Still calling others trolls for ACTUALLY supporting the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. If it was not so pathetic it would be humorous.

Funny I actually had stepped away from posting until this less than honest person decided to start calling names again.

BTW name calling when the exchange has stopped is the act of troll, among other things.

kcgunfan said:

So, would you care to have a stab at my question above?

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I really hate the wording on it, way to many words for the lawyers to twist into something they never meant to say. Within the OC portion of the bill, the reference to RAS etc seems almost childish etc. I also think that as strong as the nullification language has been in the past and even with the tweaks, the edit on 21.750 should have gone into it instead and then push hard as hell to get it done.

As far as your question above goes, we have already been down that road earlier, there are things I think MAY happen and you agree they COULD happen, you feel they are not likely to happen and see the issues of the past as being over to a degree and it is UNLIKELY to happen, I have only limited disagreement with that and believe that the tide is unstable and could relax or trigger a wave. I know I could sell it to a politician if I were to take the anti-side of the debate.

As far as additional speculation on the results go, I prefer not to plant any seeds but would be more than happy to discuss the additional concerns I have privately. I the additional interest of questions, post aug 27 I would offer that you will have no newly restored rights either. That does not mean there are not things I like, there is much to like, but when it comes to the OC portion it is not what I want and I have concerns is all.

WalkingWolf said:

NOW trying to backtrack and changing tunes. Still calling others trolls for ACTUALLY supporting the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. If it was not so pathetic it would be humorous.

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This is where it becomes crystal clear you are not very bright as I am not backtracking at all. Just because you lack the gray matter to have evaluated my postings enough to learn that not only do I advocate for all persons right to bear arms including felons, but even go so far as to suggest that they be government ISSUED to all with the capacity to handle them. I place that singular limit based upon mental illness that takes one so far from reality that they can't be responsible for themselves.

Just because you came over to the mo forum to troll and completely mis-evaluated who I am or what I stand for does not change what it is, it simply supplies the foundation for the statement of fact that you are not very bright.

You are likely used to confronting polite people whom tend to wind up ignoring you which is indeed the best method for dealing with a troll, I however have NEVER made the claim of being polite, I see it as a form of dishonesty.

The only right I like more than the second is the first as the freedom of speech allows one to identify the stupid people, case closed.

UTB

LMTD said:

This is where it becomes crystal clear you are not very bright as I am not backtracking at all. Just because you lack the gray matter to have evaluated my postings enough to learn that not only do I advocate for all persons right to bear arms including felons, but even go so far as to suggest that they be government ISSUED to all with the capacity to handle them. I place that singular limit based upon mental illness that takes one so far from reality that they can't be responsible for themselves.

Just because you came over to the mo forum to troll and completely mis-evaluated who I am or what I stand for does not change what it is, it simply supplies the foundation for the statement of fact that you are not very bright.

You are likely used to confronting polite people whom tend to wind up ignoring you which is indeed the best method for dealing with a troll, I however have NEVER made the claim of being polite, I see it as a form of dishonesty.

The only right I like more than the second is the first as the freedom of speech allows one to identify the stupid people, case closed.

UTB

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Like most lacking basic skills you cannot dazzle with intelligence so you resort to insults...

Then to add insult to injury you do not have the capacity to stop when it is over, you keep offering yourself up for ridicule.

Vote today?

Is there a vote today on this bill?

As far as the OC portion of this bill. I cannot see how it is going to LIMIT or Remove any rights or permissions we already have. To me a State Preempt is exactly what we need as it stands now every little sh!T city council has a say in MY right to OC. I am sick of carry here dont carry here. It is more then time for a clear concise law to say carry everywhere and everyone is on board make life a lot better. For those who are only invested in the OC portion of this bill i would ask them to take another look more importantly even then that is to prempt the fedR@l GuberNant with state law the bigger picture if you will. As I say when riding my harley if you wait for the perfect day to ride not to hot not to cold not to windy or raining or... Whatever you will never ride! Suck it up its not perfect but it is Wayyyyyy better then what we have btw pre empting the feds is NO small baby step!

RenegadeZ

It was scheduled for a vote as of last night. I've not checked today.

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Yep, it's on the calendar for today.....as well as SAPA SB613 (???) and SCS SJR 36.

Link: http://www.house.mo.gov/DailyCalendar.aspx

Interesting to see SB613 brought out. Hmmmmmmm.

HB1439 goes to conference committee, because the House doesn't like the Senate putting milk teeth in the law for LEO's that break the law.

very depressing this can't get sent to the Nixon without issues!!! Just one road block after another.... I would like to thank all of your guys that don't give up because to be honest I'm not sure I could handle all this BS!!!!!! Seems like a never ending battle with a right we should NOT be BEGGING FOR! So thanks again.....looks like this will be a August outcome afterall.

A bill that required minor tweaks, according to a senator from St. Charles last year, has yet to land on Da Govs desk.

Pathetic.

OC for ME said:

A bill that required minor tweaks, according to a senator from St. Charles last year, has yet to land on Da Govs desk.

Pathetic.

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Yep, "Fast Track" ya know.