22Luke36
Regular Member
There is still MCL 750.227 to contend with. I don't see how a person charged under this law would ever be convicted as it is so blatantly unconstitutional.
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Carrying firearms at relatives residence.
- Thread starter OneForAll
- Start date
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Have you looked? What I am concerned about is that wishful thinking is given as much weight as legal precedent. But, I'll bow out now as this thread has devolved into insignificance. I wish the OP luck, sound advice is becoming an increasingly rare commodity here.
22Luke36
Regular Member
Have I looked...for case law? No, I don't know how.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Then why post a response? I'm not trying to be mean but if you are unaware of how to do this, why post something that could cause a problem for someone else? I've been here for a while and I still do at least 15 minutes of legal research before I even think of answering a post that I believe I know the answer to...and I've got a number of sources handy.
Well, in the 3 minutes it took me to look, I see that there have been at least 7 cases within the last 10-12 years where a conviction under MCL 750.227 has been upheld...and I stopped counting because it didn't contradict my understanding.
Although most of us know that this is not legal advice and treating anything written here as such can lead to serious issues, I would suggest basing posts upon more than a personal belief is a much more helpful tack when asked about something regarding Michigan gun law. Remember: Felonies are not Fun.
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22Luke36
Regular Member
Understood.
You seem annoyed, what's up?
You seem annoyed, what's up?
22Luke36
Regular Member
How?
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Because responses have been misleading and, if followed, could have serious repercussions. If a thread deals with a "philosophical" argument, personal opinion is appropriate. If someone is asking out of a practical need to know, the only thing that matters is what has been held to be legal, and what is not.
Just this evening the first 3 threads I've read have made claims that something is "illegal" or "legal" when in truth it is the opposite (as far as the courts are concerned).
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22Luke36
Regular Member
Oh I knew what you meant in that respect. I meant "How" could any oath taking judge possibly allow a 227 conviction to stand? Article one section six is so very very clear in this matter and 227 is so obviously in conflict with it, that it is inconceivable that a conviction would stand in a properly functioning court.
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DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Oh, I don't know...how could all of the LEOs that gave us grief by forcing OCers to the ground at gunpoint or otherwise hassle law abiding citizens in the early years of Open Carry in this state do what they did? Do you honestly believe that all of Michigan's unconstitutional gun laws are ripe for a challenge...because we are going to have a 100% success rate when doing so?
To tell you the truth, "How" doesn't really matter for most of the discussions here. The fact that they "Do" is more the issue.
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22Luke36
Regular Member
If the court is doing its job, then yes.
I hope you have a better night.
I hope you have a better night.
Jared
Regular Member
Do whatever mental gymnastics you wish however Dr. Todd is correct. Carrying concealed in Michigan outside of your place of business or a residence is a felony. Although you have a better chance of being struck by lightning then getting caught carrying concealed by the police at your grandparents house, it is a felony.
If you wanted to make some lease agreement that says you have that place as a residence, then that would be a damn good defense against a 750.227 charge.
Again it is a felony, this issue is not unique to Michigan, Rhode Island has the same language, Hawaii has similar language, New Jersey has similar language, Maryland has similar language.
Good luck in whatever decision you make
If you wanted to make some lease agreement that says you have that place as a residence, then that would be a damn good defense against a 750.227 charge.
Again it is a felony, this issue is not unique to Michigan, Rhode Island has the same language, Hawaii has similar language, New Jersey has similar language, Maryland has similar language.
Good luck in whatever decision you make
22Luke36
Regular Member
It isn't mental gymnastics. More like walking across a room.
Every person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state. MCL 750.227 CLEARLY and directly contradicts that right.
I really really hate people like you who turn the law into what it has become. The reason for that disdain is because it will someday lead to loss of life on a grand scale.
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Doesn't this sound like even if I was caught (keep in mind my forth and fifth amendments would have to be violated), I would be able to put up attorney fees and get some kind of case law as a result?
22Luke36
Regular Member
Someone needs to take this law head-on since the legislature lacks the nuts to do it.
Ezerharden
Regular Member
If you have the money, go for it.
B
Bikenut
Guest
And therein lies the problem since the government uses tons of our money (taxes) to pay for creating unconstitutional laws that infringe on our rights.... but if we want to push back we have to dig into our own pockets for the money to fight those laws.... while the government again uses our money (taxes) to fight against our fighting them!
Guess what? The government is counting on the fact that they have endless resources (our taxes) to work with while we have, by comparison, a very limited amount of money to fight against them.
The system is rigged.
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22Luke36
Regular Member
Bikenut got to you first. Since you are not part of the solution, you will hereby be regarded as part of the problem.
Ezerharden
Regular Member
+1 The system is rigged.
Ezerharden
Regular Member
If I had the money I would fight it. Just pointing out that if you have the money, go for fighting it. Most here don't.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
That's a first on here, I'm personally hated for answering what the law is. Wasn't the original question regarding how one could stay "legal"? Instead of realizing that I can actually state what the law is and still believe it SHOULD be interpreted differently, there is a certain naivety in thinking that your opinion alone will be enough to stay on the right side of the law. Good luck with that thought.