hogeaterf6
Regular Member
Only 15 over? You are barely driving IN speed.
2 years ago it was 84 in a 55. My speedo said 88. Just was told to have a nice day.
Only 15 over? You are barely driving IN speed.
1. The Reserve Officer was either ignorant of the law, or he willfully chose to assert his personal opinion as fact. He claimed that Indiana has a “Concealed Carry Permit.” He also indicated that to carry in any other manner was “pure stupidity.” How can a Law Enforcement Officer enforce the law, if he does not know the law himself?
2. The Reserve Officer threatened to have my License To Carry Handgun taken from me simply because he may have gotten complaints about the fact that I was carrying. This is nothing short of intimidation in an attempt to have me 'tuck my tail between my legs' and cower to his authority. The officer obviously has a personal problem with openly carried handguns, and attempted to use his position to force me to submit to his views.
3. The Marshall County 4-H Fairgrounds has no signage forbidding firearms from being carried on the premises, nor is it posted on their website. If the fair has a rule about carrying firearms, they need to make the public aware of that rule. I had no way of knowing that my legally carried firearm was not wanted on the property. However, the officer treated me as a child, as though I should be aware of this fact, accusing me of improper carrying, intimidation, and bringing a firearm where it was not wanted.
4. Was the Reserve Officer instructed by the Fair Board or other representative that he should eject me from the property? Was he acting entirely on the complaint of another patron of the fair? If he asked me to leave simply because another patron complained to him, then he was overstepping his authority. Can any patron have another patron removed from private property simply by complaining? This was a decision that should have been made by a representative of the 4-H fair, and not left to the personal opinion of a Reserve Officer.
so from what i can gather in indiana there is a concealed weapons permit and also a license to carry permit? called the parke county sherrif and dispatch or whoever answered wasnt positive but thought i had to carry concealed.
I had this posted on another forum, and thought it would be good to post here too.
My family and I went to the Marshall County 4-H fair tonight (July 14, 2011), and I was OC as usual. I was walking around the fairgrounds with my family, looking at the exhibits, and animals. We even ate some fair food. As we were walking through the swine barn, I noticed an officer enter to the rear of the building. I also noticed him make his way toward me and my family as we were walking through the barn. As we were about to leave, the officer approached me and the conversation is as follows:
LEO: Sir, may I speak to you over here for a minute?
ME: OK
LEO: Are with an agency?
ME: No sir, I am not.
LEO: Do you have any identification on you?
ME: Yes I do.
LEO: Get it out please.
*NOTE - I did not make any movements until I was instructed to do so.
LEO: (takes ID) What are you doing?
ME: Pardon?
LEO: Why are you walking around with a gun?
ME: Because I can’t carry a cop on my back.
LEO: Because you can’t carry what?
ME: Because I can’t carry a cop on my back.
LEO: I’m getting calls from all over this fairgrounds about you. People are scared. Do you know what that is called?
ME: (Silent stare)
LEO: That’s called INTIMIDATION.
ME: No sir, that’s called me exercising my rights.
LEO: Get out your permit, because I know you have one.
ME: (hands over LICENSE)
LEO: You should know better than walk around here with a concealed carry permit, and your gun isn’t even concealed.
ME: Actually, sir it is a License to Carry, and it says nothing about carrying concealed.
LEO: You are supposed to have it concealed. Carrying like that is just pure stupidity.
ME: Show me where it says on my license anything about concealed…
LEO: Well people are getting upset. You know I can take this away from you? (holds up license)
ME: NOW who’s the one intimidating???
LEO: Well, I can have your permit taken away from you.
ME: For what exactly?
LEO: For carrying improperly.
ME: I’m not carrying improperly. I am well within my rights whether you or anyone else likes it or not.
LEO: Do you know what this place is?
ME: It’s the fairgrounds.
LEO: Is this private property or not?
ME: Well that depends.
LEO: Just answer the question. Is this private property or public? It’s a YES or NO question.
ME: Well, It is run by the Fair Board. Is the Fair Board a political subdivision?
LEO: You’re not going to answer the question are you?
ME: If the fair board is a political subdivision and gets its funding from public monies, then it is not private property.
LEO: No, this is private property. Do you know why that’s not allowed?
ME: I know that private property owners can set their own rules. And they can ask anyone to leave for any reason they see fit.
LEO: Well nobody wants guns here.
ME: Ask me to leave and I will gladly leave.
LEO: It’s just pure stupidity to be walking around like that.
ME: Ask me to leave and I will gladly leave.
LEO: Stay here for a minute.
*He goes about 30 feet away, and calls in my license. He then comes back.
LEO: You know this is private property right?
ME: Ask me to leave and I will gladly leave.
LEO: (blank stare)
ME: Are you asking me to leave?
LEO: I’m asking you to leave.
ME: OK. Kids, lets go.
LEO: We have this same problem at the Blueberry Festival. People don’t know that it’s private property.
ME: Officer, do you have a card?
LEO: NO
ME: What is your name?
LEO: Officer Heckman.
ME: You mean Reserve Sheriffs Deputy Heckman. Can I borrow your pen to write that down?
LEO: No you can’t.
*He then follows us to our car, as my 5 year old is crying his eyes out, and says to me “Daddy, why did that cop make us leave?” I replied loud enough that the officer could hear “Because he is an elitist and thinks that only cops should carry guns.”
My kids are devastated, I am madder than a hornet, and my wife can’t believe what she just witnessed. I plan on calling the Marshall County Sheriffs Dept. to file a formal complaint. Before that time, I need to investigate the Fair Board and find out if they are in fact a political subdivision. If they are in fact a political subdivision, then I plan on informing the Sheriffs Dept. that I have the legal right to sue. We will see what happens…
****UPDATE****
I went to the Sheriffs Department today (July 15, 2011)to file a formal complaint. The receptionist and the deputies were very professional and courteous. I spoke with Chief Detective Ron Babcock and provided him a type written copy of the dialogue. As he was reading the transcript, he was muttering in a low tone "That's completely wrong", "He is incorrect", and "That's ridiculous". Once he was finished reading, he stated to me "Indiana does not have a 'concealed carry permit'. It's a License to Carry." I was pleased to see that he understood where the conflict originated. I told Det. Babcock that I was not there to try to get the Reserve Officer fired, but a serious education was in order. I also gave him a type written copy of my formal complaint:
I told him that had the officer simply come to me and inform me that I was on private property and asked me to leave, there would be no problem. Det. Babcock then stated "Well, I'm not entirely sure that it is in fact private property." I then commented, "Then you are aware with the new law that went into effect on July 1 what the ramifications of his actions are?" He responded "Yes, I am."
He ended with saying "I'm sure he got complaints about your gun, and he probably thought 'I'll take care of this.' When he saw you he probably though that you were a young guy (I am 33) and that you probably didn't know the law and he was going to flex his authority." He assured me that he would be going straight to the Sheriff after our meeting and that "this will be handled right away"
I told him that my intention is not to get the officer fired, but if an officer is going to enforce the law, he needs to know the law himself. I told him that some serious education is in order and he fully agreed. I sat there for the next 5 minutes chatting with Det. Babcock, and we parted on good terms. He took my number and assured me that he would give me a follow up call. I have a feeling that Officer Heckman is going to get a royal butt-chewing. Whether or not I decide to pursue legal action will depend on the nature of the follow up call.
How's that for a first post?
Last week @ chic-fil-a on ireland & Michigan. saw no less than 5 SBPD, at least 4 of whom I am sure observed my handgun.
Today, lowes (right beside chic-fil-a) and dollar tree (@ ireland & miami).
Still no trouble around here.