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What is this nonsense? (Bernie Sanders)

EMNofSeattle

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Hate to burst your bubble, but if they taxed the rich more, yours (maybe) and my income will NOT go up, it will only cost us more to buy things we need which in turn will make us have even less money. How does a $10 burger sound? Wake up. Those evil rich. Why even obama supports wealth distribution when he holds, lets see, how much money was it to eat at his fund raiser? was it 300 dollars a plate? more? what was it?

No it won't, becuase no matter the tax rate people won't pay ten bucks for a burger worth 1 dollar, either they take the loss out of profits or they don't sell.

And besides, with the way tax code is set up business expenses an parts of employee salaries are write offs, so increasing wages increases the write off if the taxes are raised
 

EMNofSeattle

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I can't pin Sanders down on gun rights. Some say that he is fairly moderate, some say he wants to take away ALL self-defense firearms, others say he would stick with the status quo. I will say that at least Sanders doesn't shy away from who he really is - unlike most Rs and Ds alike. I also happen to agree with SOME of his platform ... getting big money out of swaying elections, given a choice - I'd rather spend tax dollars on domestic infrastructure, education, and health care rather than constantly supporting foreign wars. Sanders is correct that a small percentage of the population with the majority of the wealth gets to dictate policy and the gap between them and the middle class and poor continues to widen, I disagree with his methods in correcting that discrepancy (lots of heavy taxes on the super rich, redistribution of wealth, and minimum wage increases; he also seems to lake the comprehension that nothing is free and actions have consequences).

Is there ANYONE running for President worth voting for?

I think sanders based on voting history is a fudd, he has no problem with people owning or carrying handguns, no problem with hunting, etc but he dislikes the tactical type guns and militia stuff.

That said, the real thing is, Sanders probably doesn't consider it a campaign issue, he may sign a bill that traces his desk, but I don't think he will lobby for new laws or order executive agencies to invent novel new ways of executing current law
 

BigStack

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Hate to burst your bubble, but if they taxed the rich more, yours (maybe) and my income will NOT go up, it will only cost us more to buy things we need which in turn will make us have even less money. How does a $10 burger sound? Wake up. Those evil rich. Why even obama supports wealth distribution when he holds, lets see, how much money was it to eat at his fund raiser? was it 300 dollars a plate? more? what was it?
Some prices are inelastic.

You fail to admit that prices will and have gone up without taxing the rich more but actually taxing them less...but I won't even really claim a direct correlation like you apparently are...
You will also never admit that if wages go up and a price of a good is not elastic then the other main option is that the owner now makes less profit.
So instead of 900k he makes 700k a year... oh the horror.

The reasons for the widening wealth gap are many. Politicians etc have to break things down into small understandable sound bites so that the idiots out there can grab a hold of something and vote the way they are told (regardless of which side/party)

To really correct the problem you have to attack the root causes. .. things to look at are issues that address the supply and demand of the labor pool.
Illegal Immigration. H1b visas...and we'll work visas of all kinds... taxes on imports and the tax breaks given to companies that ship jobs over seas.

Some will say labor competition is good...and in a perfect world that might true but in reality it is only good for the companies as it keeps wages low...but we don't live in a perfect world.

Some ignorant fools want people to believe that all it takes to get ahead is to just get a better job...and that is true if it is possible.... but they take this and believe that every darn idiot out there is mentally capable... like some cashier at Walmart could be a neurosurgeon if she just applied herself ...never mind her iq is like 85... she is the next great thinker of our time... she doesn't even have the abilities to do much more than what she is doing... bit the jobs that are just above cashier are not there anymore.

For those that are barely capable of college they are faced with staggering expenses....100 k in student loans to get a 30-40 k job? Lol....


Illegal immigration and work visas and outsourcing etc have all put downward pressure on wages. It isn't like people say that people are lazy....it is that companies don't pay enough to make it worthwhile in msny cases. And in many cases this is cause they operate in grey areas of the law....cause companies are doing what is best for them, which they should.

Imagine if every illegal alien and visa wotker was magically sent home to their country and they magically could not come back. .... the labor market would see a shortage and in order to fill vacancies companies would have to pay more in wages to attract and hold onto wotkers....that is how supply and demand works.


I won't continue to ramble on cause you will disagree...not from a logical standpoint but from a you have been told xyz standpoint and don't want to think for yourself standpoint.

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nobama

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Some prices are inelastic.

You fail to admit that prices will and have gone up without taxing the rich more but actually taxing them less...but I won't even really claim a direct correlation like you apparently are...
You will also never admit that if wages go up and a price of a good is not elastic then the other main option is that the owner now makes less profit.
So instead of 900k he makes 700k a year... oh the horror.

The reasons for the widening wealth gap are many. Politicians etc have to break things down into small understandable sound bites so that the idiots out there can grab a hold of something and vote the way they are told (regardless of which side/party)

To really correct the problem you have to attack the root causes. .. things to look at are issues that address the supply and demand of the labor pool.
Illegal Immigration. H1b visas...and we'll work visas of all kinds... taxes on imports and the tax breaks given to companies that ship jobs over seas.

Some will say labor competition is good...and in a perfect world that might true but in reality it is only good for the companies as it keeps wages low...but we don't live in a perfect world.

Some ignorant fools want people to believe that all it takes to get ahead is to just get a better job...and that is true if it is possible.... but they take this and believe that every darn idiot out there is mentally capable... like some cashier at Walmart could be a neurosurgeon if she just applied herself ...never mind her iq is like 85... she is the next great thinker of our time... she doesn't even have the abilities to do much more than what she is doing... bit the jobs that are just above cashier are not there anymore.

For those that are barely capable of college they are faced with staggering expenses....100 k in student loans to get a 30-40 k job? Lol....


Illegal immigration and work visas and outsourcing etc have all put downward pressure on wages. It isn't like people say that people are lazy....it is that companies don't pay enough to make it worthwhile in msny cases. And in many cases this is cause they operate in grey areas of the law....cause companies are doing what is best for them, which they should.

Imagine if every illegal alien and visa wotker was magically sent home to their country and they magically could not come back. .... the labor market would see a shortage and in order to fill vacancies companies would have to pay more in wages to attract and hold onto wotkers....that is how supply and demand works.


I won't continue to ramble on cause you will disagree...not from a logical standpoint but from a you have been told xyz standpoint and don't want to think for yourself standpoint.

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I agree with you on alot of what you said, illegal immigration sure lowers incomes, but my point is, the democrats all try to pull this "income equality" Like raising the minimum wage. OK, that sounds good to some highschool student working at Burger King, then all of a sudden he or she is only making a few dollars an hour less then someone with a job or trade they went to school for and have been working there for 10 yrs. This doesnt make sense at all. Thats where the $10 dollar burger come into play.
 

BigStack

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I agree with you on alot of what you said, illegal immigration sure lowers incomes, but my point is, the democrats all try to pull this "income equality" Like raising the minimum wage. OK, that sounds good to some highschool student working at Burger King, then all of a sudden he or she is only making a few dollars an hour less then someone with a job or trade they went to school for and have been working there for 10 yrs. This doesnt make sense at all. Thats where the $10 dollar burger come into play.
I think what you would see is the trades would be forced to increase their wages as well in order to keep their skilled labor. Imagine if you will..... Bob is a plumber he gets $15 an hour(I have no idea what they make but let's just assume he is a skilled worker)...he does back breaking work. The min wage goes up to 15. If his employer does not up his pay Bob's mobility (opportunities ) in the workforce go way up and he should leave for an easier job with the same pay.... but wait this is nothing new...this is how it has always been ...employers always have to pay premiums for skill.

I am not so fool hardy as to believe that wage increases will not impact the prices of goods sold but I don't think it will be the sky is falling scenario that businesses and politicians, paid by businesses, want you to believe.

The Republican base/party is missing a huge opportunity to greatly curtail welfare. They could say we will raise the min wage in exchange for a drastic cut in welfare. I don't know about you but I would rather see people work for money rather than get it free or as a subsidy...
The problem is that the reality is that companies benefit greatly from welfare and have no intention of getting rid of their subsidized workforce and built in customers of cheap crappy products. The other thing is welfare keeps crime manageable.....it is like a bribe...we keep you fed so you don't rob people's homes/businesses to pay for your food.

The people that inflation/price increases really hurt are retirees cause they are no longer working and experiencing those wage increases...but inflation has always been there and should have been a part of their retirement plan.


In discussions like these it is good to know who you are talking to and debating with.... people always have a vested interest in protecting/ improving their lives. A lot of times a business owner is involved in a discussion like this and so are the worker bees...obviously they will have biased views on what should happen. And they are often on opposite ends of the spectrum....And justly so as they should do what is best for them.
I am a IT consultant in a very specialized category...live in Texas and make a 6 figure income...I have a vested interest in limiting visa workers in the tech field and outsourcing...cause while they are not necessarily directly competing with me they suppress overall IT pay and thus impact my wages.


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twoskinsonemanns

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Anyone who wants to heavily tax the super-wealthy, and actually talks openly about giving poor people the same standard of living that is found in most of the western, and first-world nations, is someone that automatically gets my vote.

I don't care how you spin it. One man's need does not justify theft from someone who has what they need. damn commie
 

BigStack

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I don't care how you spin it. One man's need does not justify theft from someone who has what they need. damn commie
While I don't agree with just blindly taxing the rich....
Your viewpoint assumes that the money was not stolen to begin with. Who do you think really benefitted from all that qe ? Bailouts? Etc etc... the super wealthy pay our elected officials to pass laws that benefit them. Things like managers of funds got their personal income taxed at the 15% rate. Things like hey use my company to build xyz bridge that we don't need. Or build yet another airport in the least populated area in the country. Reduce tariffs to make it possible for us to ship jobs overseas and make more profit.

Your belief is based on trusting the game is played fairly.....it isn't. .... stop defending the ultra wealthy.... they do more than a good enough job without your help.

This also reminds me of something Ross Perot said.... (paraphrased)....how smart would it be for an employee that is in massive credit card debt be to go to his boss and ask for a paycut?...it would be stupid but somehow we have be conned into believing it works. (In reference to our growing national debt and the tax cuts that helped get us there.)

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twoskinsonemanns

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While I don't agree with just blindly taxing the rich....
Your viewpoint assumes that the money was not stolen to begin with. Who do you think really benefitted from all that qe ? Bailouts? Etc etc... the super wealthy pay our elected officials to pass laws that benefit them. Things like managers of funds got their personal income taxed at the 15% rate. Things like hey use my company to build xyz bridge that we don't need. Or build yet another airport in the least populated area in the country. Reduce tariffs to make it possible for us to ship jobs overseas and make more profit.

Your belief is based on trusting the game is played fairly.....it isn't. .... stop defending the ultra wealthy.... they do more than a good enough job without your help.

This also reminds me of something Ross Perot said.... (paraphrased)....how smart would it be for an employee that is in massive credit card debt be to go to his boss and ask for a paycut?...it would be stupid but somehow we have be conned into believing it works. (In reference to our growing national debt and the tax cuts that helped get us there.)

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yes the all too common socialist condemnation of "capitalism".
That naive answer to government corruption? raise taxes :rolleyes:
The problem with crony capitalism isn't the capitalism part. And your collectivism isn't the fix.
When people look at the twisted marriage of government and big corporations why in the world do people not blame the facilitator but blame the opportunist?
 

BigStack

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yes the all too common socialist condemnation of "capitalism".
That naive answer to government corruption? raise taxes :rolleyes:
The problem with crony capitalism isn't the capitalism part. And your collectivism isn't the fix.
When people look at the twisted marriage of government and big corporations why in the world do people not blame the facilitator but blame the opportunist?
And yet I don't condemn capitalism.
I do think some laws ought to change.... and I think constantly pushing for lower and lower taxes is stupid.

I don't blame the companies or the wealthy individuals for wanting to do what is best for them.... but that doesn't mean it is what is best for the country. I blame the politicians for getting bought off.

And the naive answer to getting out of debt (which is a lost cause at this point) is to cut taxes even more....quite possibly the dumbest argument ever. We have been cutting taxes for 40 years.....how has it worked out?

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BigStack

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LOL Taxes or spending; cart or horse?
Ummm how about slash spending....and at least keep taxes the same if not raise them.

Why is it that people believe it is one or the other and not both?

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twoskinsonemanns

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And the naive answer to getting out of debt (which is a lost cause at this point) is to cut taxes even more....quite possibly the dumbest argument ever. We have been cutting taxes for 40 years.....how has it worked out?

Who buy's this stuff? What planet do you live on?
Between federal tax, state tax, sales tax, social security tax, medicare tax, real-estate tax, gas tax, cigarette tax, telephone tax, fire department tax, ambulance service tax, property tax, school tax, electricity tax, alcohol tax, hunting tax, luxury tax, fishing tax, driving tax, blah blah blah.... over half of each my shillings are stolen!
To hell with raising taxes because they spend more than they steal.
 

BigStack

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Who buy's this stuff? What planet do you live on?
Between federal tax, state tax, sales tax, social security tax, medicare tax, real-estate tax, gas tax, cigarette tax, telephone tax, fire department tax, ambulance service tax, property tax, school tax, electricity tax, alcohol tax, hunting tax, luxury tax, fishing tax, driving tax, blah blah blah.... over half of each my shillings are stolen!
To hell with raising taxes because they spend more than they steal.
Oh you got me!....oh wait....

Many of those taxes you listed are a result of you spending money. Thus voluntary....then on top of that you don't bring up the write offs you get for many of those taxes. Let's not even get into the fact you are merging federal and state taxes into one line item.

I would guess the total tax paid for an average citizen is around 30% and the above average is around 40%.... anyone claiming over 50% is paying some serious voluntary taxes as a result of properties boats cars etc etc... and not to mention living in a state with state income tax to begin with.

Is 30% too much? Is 40% too much...sure we can make the argument for that.... but the government if they want to right this ship needs to slash spending like I said ...while at least maintaining their revenue stream...lowering their revenue stream while cutting spending will do little. If not make things worse.

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Freedom1Man

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Oh you got me!....oh wait....

Many of those taxes you listed are a result of you spending money. Thus voluntary....then on top of that you don't bring up the write offs you get for many of those taxes. Let's not even get into the fact you are merging federal and state taxes into one line item.

I would guess the total tax paid for an average citizen is around 30% and the above average is around 40%.... anyone claiming over 50% is paying some serious voluntary taxes as a result of properties boats cars etc etc... and not to mention living in a state with state income tax to begin with.

Is 30% too much? Is 40% too much...sure we can make the argument for that.... but the government if they want to right this ship needs to slash spending like I said ...while at least maintaining their revenue stream...lowering their revenue stream while cutting spending will do little. If not make things worse.

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Anymore than 0% of my earnings being taxed is too much.

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twoskinsonemanns

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Many of those taxes you listed are a result of you spending money. Thus voluntary....then on top of that you don't bring up the write offs you get for many of those taxes. Let's not even get into the fact you are merging federal and state taxes into one line item.
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what are you talking about? taxes don't count if they are a result of spending? State taxes don't count?
Is that a joke? BTW income is just as voluntary as spending.

That actual tax burden is far greater than whatever federal income tax bracket you happen to fall into.
 

DrakeZ07

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Lexington, Ky
Every time I get called a commie, or a socialist, for believing that the rich should be taxed far more than the poor, or the middle-class, I kinda grin and smile to myself; Knowing that I got under that persons skin, and they aren't witty enough to do anything but to echo the typical conserva-fascist response of "Yah, well YOUR A COMMIE!" and "OMG TAX THE RICH? GTFO SOCIALIST!". Despite being in broad terms, a Southern Democrat, and in tighter terms a "I-don't-give-a-f&$@-ist", I like to think how all these idiots on the right whine and moan and b!tch about how people who make in excess of 5 million. dollars. a. year. need lesser taxes, and how the super rich who make more than thirty times the previous amount, in a year, get taxed enough already. Then I kinda just hang my head, and shake it a little, and a darker part of me kinda wishes for a totalitarian dictatorship to arise in our nation, to commit genocide against the minorities, and to kill at-will, the rich people, and intellectuals, and the liberty-minded folk, and put our nation in a war that we could never hope to win, then for our nation to be war ravaged, and the blame put on us, and our economy, infrastructure, livelihoods, and society utterly destroyed. Because there is a truth that people deny, or don't want to admit to... the only way to change our nation, and for the better, is to suffer the same fate as Nazi Germany, Occupied France, Fascist Italy, Imperial Japan, War-torn Balkins, and Soviet Russia. It takes the utter destruction of a nation, and the pain and suffering of its people, before REAL change can take effect, and start a new growth cycle. Our country is comparable to that of Imperial Roma. Fat, greedy, and arrogant. Controlling nations, and economies. While its elite class grow richer, and the poor grows poor-er, and the middle class bears the heavy burden of paying for the empire, while starving at home. It took two thousand years of humiliation, destruction, wars, tyrants, unity, division, being conquered, rising, and falling, before the Italy of today could take its place, and even then, it has a long way to go before it can stand equal with the other meager nations who seek and uphold the values of all men, poor, and rich, and their protection and well-being above all else, even above greed.

I just hope it's a quicker route for us, and within my life-time. Oh well, I can always patiently await the star-trek universe to slowly take shape in our time-line.

Now to grab some popcorn and watch the heads pop of conservatives, and the democrats.
 

sudden valley gunner

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You are as economically illiterate as Sanders. Unfortunately you are not alone and most of the D's and R's supporters are just as ignorant.

Some prices are inelastic.

This is an utter nonsensical asinine statement. Prices are figured out by the market and go up and down with a market. Unless the state/government fixes something, which then creates more problems than it ever solves.

You fail to admit that prices will and have gone up without taxing the rich more but actually taxing them less...but I won't even really claim a direct correlation like you apparently are...
You will also never admit that if wages go up and a price of a good is not elastic then the other main option is that the owner now makes less profit.
So instead of 900k he makes 700k a year... oh the horror.

You fail to understand the actions of the government and the Fed in rising prices. Which is the direct correlation to inflation more than any other single factor.

The reasons for the widening wealth gap are many. Politicians etc have to break things down into small understandable sound bites so that the idiots out there can grab a hold of something and vote the way they are told (regardless of which side/party)

LOL....there is no widening wealth gap.....this is politicians who are just as dumb to economics or are purposefully trying to mislead.

To really correct the problem you have to attack the root causes. .. things to look at are issues that address the supply and demand of the labor pool.
Illegal Immigration. H1b visas...and we'll work visas of all kinds... taxes on imports and the tax breaks given to companies that ship jobs over seas.

Ignore the true root of state interference.

Some will say labor competition is good...and in a perfect world that might true but in reality it is only good for the companies as it keeps wages low...but we don't live in a perfect world.

So you would have no labor competition fix prices, distort the market and ensure many will be without a source of income?

Some ignorant fools want people to believe that all it takes to get ahead is to just get a better job...and that is true if it is possible.... but they take this and believe that every darn idiot out there is mentally capable... like some cashier at Walmart could be a neurosurgeon if she just applied herself ...never mind her iq is like 85... she is the next great thinker of our time... she doesn't even have the abilities to do much more than what she is doing... bit the jobs that are just above cashier are not there anymore.

Some ignorant fools think that stealing from others and giving to others somehow makes people better off, ignoring what has really made people better off. Capitalism and the free market.

For those that are barely capable of college they are faced with staggering expenses....100 k in student loans to get a 30-40 k job? Lol....

Most people shouldn't go to college. Also ignores why education costs are rising. Hint not due to the market.


Illegal immigration and work visas and outsourcing etc have all put downward pressure on wages. It isn't like people say that people are lazy....it is that companies don't pay enough to make it worthwhile in msny cases. And in many cases this is cause they operate in grey areas of the law....cause companies are doing what is best for them, which they should.

Well golly by that logic people should stop having kids too. This is based on propaganda economics. Even keynesian economist admit immigration raises the standard of living........oh yea hint wages aren't always the signal of standard of living.

Imagine if every illegal alien and visa wotker was magically sent home to their country and they magically could not come back. .... the labor market would see a shortage and in order to fill vacancies companies would have to pay more in wages to attract and hold onto wotkers....that is how supply and demand works.

Also imagine the reality that far less goods would be created raising the costs of all these goods more than rise in wages. Hint the supplies would cost more to the companies too....


I won't continue to ramble on cause you will disagree...not from a logical standpoint but from a you have been told xyz standpoint and don't want to think for yourself standpoint.

Good because you repeated one false hood/fallacy after another.
 

pkbites

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Jun 2, 2006
Messages
773
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
Alright, here we go:

Bernie Sanders Doubles Down On Gun Control.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) doubled down on his support for tighter gun control legislation on Thursday in the wake of the mass shooting at an Oregon community college.

Sanders, a Democratic presidential hopeful, went on to specify that he supports banning assault weapons and closing the loophole that exempts private, unlicensed gun sales from background checks -- often known as the “gun show loophole."

Sanders voted for the Manchin-Toomey amendment in 2013, however, which would have expanded background checks and banned assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.


Not a single vote has been cast in the primary and he is starting to show his true colors. By next spring he could be introducing a repeal of the 2nd Amendment.

IMHO any gun owner who doesn't realize Sanders is no less a gun grabber than any other Democrat is out of their mind and playing with fire if they support him. 'Nuff said!
 

Eeyore

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Aug 25, 2007
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the meanest city in the stupidest state
Nope. He's had NRA support in the past and argued gun regulation is a state issue since Vermont is very different than NY or CA. Now that he's on the national stage he's having to toe the line on the DNC line of gun control everywhere for everywhere
 
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travr6

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Mar 13, 2015
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Louisville ky
Nope. He's had NRA support in the past and argued gun regulation is a state issue since Vermont is very different than NY or CA. Now that he's on the national stage he's having to toe the line on the DNC line of gun cotton everywhere for everywhere
He had nra support when he first got elected. He had not had nra support since he has been for gun control.

Gun control is not a state's rights issue. The 10th amendment is for everything not mentioned in the constitution.

States have no right to enforce laws that violate the constitution, especially the Bill of Rights.
 
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