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Under the influence

Todd Edgar

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Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
1
I am new to the forum; have carried with permit for many years but had a discussion with friends concerning open carry while under the influence of alcohol. We have no idea what the legal threshold is for alcohol and carrying. Any info from you folks is appreciated.
 

solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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Location
here nc
I can only articulate NC’s criteria....if you blow anything on the breath-alyzer your firearm and permit are confiscated on the spot and if not over the legal limit, handed back your DL and keys and told to get back in your vehicle and go away! [remember nightquel will cause a result on the test]

Now common sense should prevail and whether OC’g/CC’g you should not consume substance(s), legal or otherwise, while carrying.

Therefore, don’t worry about a threshold, don’t carry and consume, period!
 

color of law

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Read your law, item 3 specifically.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(w3ymn24lzpujlkghenoyk0hi))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-519

28.519(3) This section does not prohibit an individual certified under this act to carry a concealed firearm who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that firearm in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that firearm unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that firearm or on a vessel if the firearm is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that firearm.
 

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
Read your law, item 3 specifically.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(w3ymn24lzpujlkghenoyk0hi))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-519

28.519(3) This section does not prohibit an individual certified under this act to carry a concealed firearm who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that firearm in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that firearm unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that firearm or on a vessel if the firearm is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that firearm.
A very good answer to an unasked question. I don't see one word in that statute that relates to " open carry while under the influence of alcohol" or "the legal threshold is for alcohol and carrying".
 

color of law

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A very good answer to an unasked question. I don't see one word in that statute that relates to " open carry while under the influence of alcohol" or "the legal threshold is for alcohol and carrying".
And, your contribution to the question is what? Nothing, as usual.
You could have suggested to Op read MCL 750.237 Liquor or controlled substance; possession or use of firearm by person under influence; violation; penalty; chemical analysis.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(xirpuoqy3vfeqa4ghfgou0lr))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-237

I'm sure the answer is hidden in there somewhere.
 

gutshot II

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Central Ky.
And, your contribution to the question is what? Nothing, as usual.
You could have suggested to Op read MCL 750.237 Liquor or controlled substance; possession or use of firearm by person under influence; violation; penalty; chemical analysis.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(xirpuoqy3vfeqa4ghfgou0lr))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-237

I'm sure the answer is hidden in there somewhere.
My contribution was to get you to post something relevant. Well done.
 

bc.cruiser

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Apr 2, 2011
Messages
746
Location
Fayetteville NC
I am new to the forum; have carried with permit for many years but had a discussion with friends concerning open carry while under the influence of alcohol. We have no idea what the legal threshold is for alcohol and carrying. Any info from you folks is appreciated.
Reading the info provided by CoL's link, the primary obstruction to OC with alcohol in the blood/breath/urine would be the definition of "under the influence". If the figures shown in 1(b) are the threshold, then a single (or maybe two) drink would not be a factor.

What Solus posted about NC is correct for CC; there is no restriction written for OC. In fact, there is no violation of law solely for public intoxication unless disruptive (NC GS 14-443, -447).
 

solus

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here nc
Reading the info provided by CoL's link, the primary obstruction to OC with alcohol in the blood/breath/urine would be the definition of "under the influence". If the figures shown in 1(b) are the threshold, then a single (or maybe two) drink would not be a factor.

What Solus posted about NC is correct for CC; there is no restriction written for OC. In fact, there is no violation of law solely for public intoxication unless disruptive (NC GS 14-443, -447).
Alas, bc, while poorly worded, NC 14.415.11 (c2) states, quote:
c2) It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in the person's body any alcohol or in the person's blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in the person's blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts or if the person is on the person's own property. Unquote.

Now bc, if you wish to explain your perception of this statute’s meaning to the kind NC LEs standing in front of you while OC’g and with alcohol/controlled substances in your system, please press on.

My obervation stands, want to avoid having to defend yourself, do not drink or imbibe on controlled substances, as IMHO [coupled with NC 14.415.11(2)] it is only the prudent way to assure there is no problems.

Sidebar: 14-269.3(a): shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

Yes there are exceptions as thoroughly discussed on this forum thread’s !

Www.ncleg.net
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,872
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North Carolina
Don't know the case law in your state regarding OC, and alcohol, most states clearly forbid drinking and cc. However drinking any amount dulls the senses, and could play a factor in any SD shooting. Could even get you injured, or killed if your aim, and response are hindered by the alcohol. If you must keep it at a minimum.
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Solus the statute clearly states concealed with or without a permit. Since OC is NOT concealed, and there is no law making it illegal then the old standby of the forum rings true. What is not illegal, is legal. Is it a wise idea, NO, could a nice LE not know the law, YES. I highly doubt there would be a conviction though, and it would be clear case law that most prosecutors want to avoid.

While not having to do with drinking the soldier in Fayettnam who was arrested for GATTTOP all charges were dropped, Because? What he did was not illegal, and the statute used did not relate to his carrying. I wonder if he filed suit against FPD.

ETA some of our brothers in VA have approached this in the same manner, and OC'd, and consumed in public without issue. It is not against the law in VA either to OC, and drink alcohol. I miss Grape already as he would probably beat me to the punch pointing this out, as he has before.
 

bc.cruiser

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Joined
Apr 2, 2011
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Fayetteville NC
Alas, bc, while poorly worded, NC 14.415.11 (c2) states, quote:
c2) It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in the person's body any alcohol or in the person's blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in the person's blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts or if the person is on the person's own property. Unquote.

Now bc, if you wish to explain your perception of this statute’s meaning to the kind NC LEs standing in front of you while OC’g and with alcohol/controlled substances in your system, please press on.

My obervation stands, want to avoid having to defend yourself, do not drink or imbibe on controlled substances, as IMHO [coupled with NC 14.415.11(2)] it is only the prudent way to assure there is no problems.

Sidebar: 14-269.3(a): shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

Yes there are exceptions as thoroughly discussed on this forum thread’s !

Www.ncleg.net
So Sorry, Solus, but you are way off base. "With or without a permit", and the entirety of your cite applies only to CC. I agreed with you on CC but as WalkingWolf also points out, there is no restriction as to OC.

As for your sidebar of -269.3(a), I use the exceptions allowed under (b)(3) and (b)(5) to remain legal in my armed presence in alcohol consumption establishments.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
Solus the statute clearly states concealed with or without a permit. Since OC is NOT concealed, and there is no law making it illegal then the old standby of the forum rings true. What is not illegal, is legal. Is it a wise idea, NO, could a nice LE not know the law, YES. I highly doubt there would be a conviction though, and it would be clear case law that most prosecutors want to avoid.

While not having to do with drinking the soldier in Fayettnam who was arrested for GATTTOP all charges were dropped, Because? What he did was not illegal, and the statute used did not relate to his carrying. I wonder if he filed suit against FPD.

ETA some of our brothers in VA have approached this in the same manner, and OC'd, and consumed in public without issue. It is not against the law in VA either to OC, and drink alcohol. I miss Grape already as he would probably beat me to the punch pointing this out, as he has before.
WW, is there a cite with your story and understand I have not nor am i now speaking of VA statutes where august VA members of this forum have in the past and still are, enduring gross monetary expenditures over VA's GATTOP to defend themselves.

WW, et al., carry of a firearm w/o a permit is clearly OC, especially since NC statutes specifically state CC'g w/o a permit is a felony!

And yet again, allow me to reiterate, please tell that to the kind LEs as you are standing on the street after your firearm has been taken for officer safety, discussing the topic of whether or not you are allowed to carry and be under the influence!

Sorry, there is just something about expending money to judicially defend myself which i believe could be better spend elsewhere in my life.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
No offense but you need to provide a citation that it is illegal. Without a law, or court ruling making it illegal asking for a cite for a law that does not exist is not going to work. The citation already provided clearly states conceal carry, not open carry.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,081
Location
northern wis
c2) It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun

It appears to that this statute applies to carrying a concealed handgun.

There might be others that could apply to open carry but so far no one has posted such.

A long time ago I realized that drinking intoxicated beverages and using mind altering drugs was not a intelligent thing to do.

So I abstain from such.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,961
Location
Henrico
In Virginia there is no mention of drinking while Open Carrying, only Concealed Carrying and it's a no go in that instance. As for legal implications after the fact if you were involved in a SD shooting I'd imagine you would want to KYBMS and contact an attorney immediately.

IANAL
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,378
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
In Virginia there is no mention of drinking while Open Carrying, only Concealed Carrying and it's a no go in that instance. As for legal implications after the fact if you were involved in a SD shooting I'd imagine you would want to KYBMS and contact an attorney immediately.

IANAL
I was with KYBMS the other day and I could not get a word in edgewise.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
No offense but you need to provide a citation that it is illegal. Without a law, or court ruling making it illegal asking for a cite for a law that does not exist is not going to work. The citation already provided clearly states conceal carry, not open carry.
No WW looking for a cite regarding your fayetteville soldier?
 

HP995

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Dec 5, 2012
Messages
638
Location
MO, USA
Best to be under the influence of two things - common sense and the Constitution.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
No WW looking for a cite regarding your fayetteville soldier?
I didn't keep the news listing on it, it was the mall incident either last year or before. I had to dig to find the charges had been dropped, not sure I can find it again. But it was nationwide news at the time, the original arrest was discussed here in length.

WRAL reporting on his arrest https://www.wral.com/gunman-reported-at-fayetteville-s-cross-creek-mall/14751863/
As far as I know they did not report on the dropped charges, and I don't remember where I found it. I will try though.

Well that was not hard, and WRAL did report charges dropped. https://www.wral.com/charge-dropped-against-soldier-who-took-gun-to-fayetteville-mall/16181183/
 
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