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Umpqua College

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
CCer was 200 yards away from the shooting, didn't intervene.
The CCer didn't have the opportunity to intervene, but he does opine that ".......it solidifies the need for more campus carriers than ever before."
To channel my inner Skidmark, I only need 1 carrier on campus at any given moment: myself. Because I carry to defend myself.

If everyone around me wants to carry as well, I'm very supportive. If they want to neglect their personal responsibilities to defend their own lives, I'm just not sure I have the right or obligation to force them to be more wise.

I think we need to change the terms of the discussion on these issues. Rather than hypothesizing about what might have happened if more people on campus were armed and then getting into the debate about "neutralize murderer faster" vs "innocent people killed in the cross fire", perhaps we should stick to cold, hard facts.

To wit:

How many victims in Oregon, the Colorado theater, Columbine, or other of the Fort Hood mass murders were armed and able to defend themselves with a firearm?

How many victims in any of these events were injured or killed by a legally armed citizen acting in self-defense?

So long as 100% of the victims of these incidents are unarmed, and so long as legally armed citizens are not creating innocent victims in these cases, looks to me like I should most certainly remain a legally armed citizen.

I don't promise to make any effort to stop a madman who isn't directly threatening me. But I do promise to put up a really nasty fight if he does threaten me.

Charles
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
All the talking head experts yapping about campus safety, but not one word about students should be allowed to carry.

One grandparent of a student who also use to work there said that it was a gun free zone and she couldn't understand how this could have happened...:uhoh:
Sadly, that grandparent and so many other suffer from the same half-argument without ever having thought about the other side. They and whoever brainwashed them didn't (or can't) think all the way through the issue.

I wonder if any of Oregon's students are rethinking the issue, or whether they're just too far gone.

Here in Colorado, even before the 2007 New Life Church attempted massacre where the shooter was stopped dead by an armed *GASP!* law-abiding citizen, students had begun strongly petitioning the government for the right to carry a firearm on campus. In 2009 they argued that denying that right constituted an infringement on their right to keep and bear arms. On March 5, 2012, the Colorado Supreme Court affirmed that CU students with permits can carry concealed guns on campus. They failed to go far enough, however, as both the U.S. Constitution as well as the State Constitution affords Coloradans the right to keep and bear arms via open carry at age 18.

Regardless, it was a pivotal moment, for students were able to obtain decisions from both the Colorado Court of Appeals and the State Supreme Court in support of their Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Why the "El Paso District Court judge dismissed their suit, saying the Board of Regents is not considered a local government, but a "statewide authority with its own legislative powers over distinct geographical areas," is utterly beyond me. Sounds like the same idiotic, stupid, mindless crap put forth by the liberal idiots of Oregon, despite the fact they already have fairly restrictive gun laws. Well, gee. Guess that doesn't work, huh?

The simple fact remains that you're at least three times more likely to die at the hands of a mass shooter in a gun-free zone than you are in an area where people's right to keep and bear arms isn't illegally infringed. So say the statistics.

If you haven't written your Congressman and reminded him of the fact that neither criminals nor the criminally insane follow the laws that disarm law-abiding citizens, thereby making them targets, now's the time.

http://redalertpolitics.com/2015/10/02/breaking-umpqua-shooter-not-republican/
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Jul 12, 2011
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Location
northern wis

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
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Valhalla
--snipped--
The simple fact remains that you're at least three times more likely to die at the hands of a mass shooter in a gun-free zone than you are in an area where people's right to keep and bear arms isn't illegally infringed. So say the statistics.
I agree with the premise, but unfortunately the "statistics" and sources/cites are not shown there - only lots of opinion and conclusions unsupported.

Would make a good reference only IF properly cited.
 

Dave_pro2a

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Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
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Location
, ,
Most Colleges are a government funded, political entities.

College tends to have a clear political agenda, and they penalize those who try to resist that agenda.

Abraham Lincoln would have seen them as a fine target for violence.
 

randian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
375
Location
Phoenix, AZ
The media "wrestle" with naming a shooter only when they aren't white or have potential ties to Islam. Given that one of the two MySpace links on the shooter's page is clearly a jihadist sympathizer tells you why they aren't naming him.
 

Dave_pro2a

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The media "wrestle" with naming a shooter only when they aren't white or have potential ties to Islam. Given that one of the two MySpace links on the shooter's page is clearly a jihadist sympathizer tells you why they aren't naming him.
But he's.... British!
 

color of law

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Oct 7, 2007
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

solus

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Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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here nc
snip...
Here in Colorado, even before the 2007 New Life Church attempted massacre where the shooter was stopped dead by an armed *GASP!* law-abiding citizen,
snip...
quote: who was shot by a volunteer security guard during the second incident, at the New Life Church here. ...The guard, Jeanne Assam, a church member with police experience and a pistol permit, said she took cover.... ...Ms. Assam said she leaped up and identified herself, and when Mr. Murray did not respond, opened fire.

Officials said they were still investigating whether Ms. Assam’s shot killed Mr. Murray or whether it might have been a self-inflicted wound. unquote.

sorry since9, this was not an run of the mill JQPublic citizen but rather a BLET trained and a retired, experienced LE, 'volunteer' security guard, who laid in wait and surprised the shooter and then shot them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/us/11churches.html?_r=0

ipse
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
So, in other words, as soon as good guys with guns showed up it was over. Too bad they had to wait so long.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,675
Location
here nc
forgive me, but can anybody even begin to explain why are these events shrouded in such a clustered, greased pig, three ring circus environment.

1. first xyz number of people killed, oh wait, no it is abc number killed, well, uh, really now we think mno number were killed....oh ya now we are ok, we got the right number killed now ~ nth ya this is the final number...

2. we have the suspect, no wait our nice LEs had a gun battle with him, oh i'm sorry he actually, he committed suicide? *really??)

3. my little girl played dead covered in the blood of the young man who got shot next to her says the preacher from his pulpit and in tears on the nightly news... oh i have a note, no thumb drive, well package...ya manifesto...that's it.

4. see the photograph of the white man shooter without apparent natural blemishes...oh, no this foto shows the shooter is mixed race with natural blemishes (shades of trayvon) and we gave him a hyphen name...

5. sheriff, i don't want this to be media circus, btw did i mention i sent biden a note after sandy hook...oh we found an arsenal, we found a vest at his home, nope he was wearing it and so forth

6. its a gun free zone...except for an unnamed bloke who was was on campus but too far away stating others had firearms as well. and let's not forget the man in LA who announces on ABC if he had been there he would have taken action.

7. and now the hero bloke who got shot pushing the door closed on the shooter was now running towards him to take him on

8. and so the fairy tale of events grows to legend proportions to be told around town gatherings for years to come...

9.

btw, the investigation of this event will be sealed for posterity, like all these events.

a side bar...has the official timeline of events been released when it actually began when LE arrived etc?

ipse
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,675
Location
here nc
didn't the bloke who drove his vehicle, killing 6 and injured 13 make the same complaint about finding female companionship..

(--mod edited--)
ipse
 
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