• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

U of A riot on 29 March, students and Tucson PD clash

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Thread split. This event did not have anything to do with OC per se, so I decided a new thread might be best.
Original thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Carry-experience-thread&p=2048413#post2048413

This past Saturday there was a "riot" on University after the UA lost to Wisconsin. Pepper balls, pepper canisters, and bean bag rounds were fired, glass bottles were thrown, etc. Anyways, the funny thing is, I'd gone home to drop my things off and was all set to go into the area while OCing, and I had this strange feeling that I just shouldn't step outside. Spooky when I found out what had happened.:uhoh:
My biggest gripe is how my age group will be/ is being portrayed, since this gives more ammunition to the antis who keep opposing lawful CC on campus because "college students are stupid" (the words of our former UA president, by the way).:mad:

Update (9th of November, 2014):
Here is a working video of the incident in question (assault at 20 sec mark):
[video=youtube;eF9wnATIpxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF9wnATIpxg[/video]
 
Last edited:

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
@Rusty - some of the stupidest people I've ever met were on college grounds. Sadly, they were mostly admins & faculty. :(

Here's an example of police going way off track in afore mentioned fiasco. One person gets their goat, so this genius with a badge decides to whale on a innocent girl. Can someone say steroid abuse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B7Kv9R7b3A

I hadn't seen that video. Absolutely disgusting. She wasn't even looking at the cop, and I doubt she weighs more than 110 lbs soaking wet. Hopefully she files suit.

I'd mostly just been looking at the photos, though I did see the video where a guy stands right in the center with his arms out and is rushed by Tucson PD. If you look in the background, it seems like a small Molotov cocktail may have been thrown from the student side.

Just about the only good things I can see coming from this:
1) Students learn what Warren v. District of Columbia already confirmed.
2) Students are more mindful of abuse of power as well as use of excessive force as a real thing that CAN affect them if they do nothing.
3) Students question why all this tacticrap is being handed out to police in American cities, on American soil, for use against unarmed citizens.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Just found this article about the guy that was rushed by TPD (NOTE: the images in the link are not for the squeamish):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/31/arizona-fan-riot-welts-stomach_n_5062842.html

As the lone man approached seemingly taunting police with his arms out, he took several pepper balls to the chest before a group of officers swarmed and detained him. Watch the video above to see how it went down. After the man was released, he showed off the damage done to his body.

It's not pretty.
 
Last edited:

azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
905
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
My biggest gripe is how my age group will be/ is being portrayed, since this gives more ammunition to the antis who keep opposing lawful CC on campus because "college students are stupid" (the words of our former UA president, by the way).:mad:
All this makes it very tough to convince legislators that adults should be able to carry on campus. All they see is boozers and druggies. Toss in a riot over nothing more than a sporting event, and they pretty much have all they need to not support Campus Carry.

Fred
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
All this makes it very tough to convince legislators that adults should be able to carry on campus. All they see is boozers and druggies. Toss in a riot over nothing more than a sporting event, and they pretty much have all they need to not support Campus Carry.

Fred
Yet, suspected cop brutality, documented it seems, goes unnoticed? Odd that thug cops get a pass by our legislators but drunk kids, most of whom are not violating the law could be used to deny carry on a campus.

Orders to disperse were pretty much meaningless cuz the cops did not disperse anyone. But, one or two cops did not hesitate to assault otherwise peaceful college kids.

Worrisome indeed.
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
All this makes it very tough to convince legislators that adults should be able to carry on campus. All they see is boozers and druggies. Toss in a riot over nothing more than a sporting event, and they pretty much have all they need to not support Campus Carry.

Fred

From some personal accounts I've been reading it was a ton of people being wild, but it wasn't a riot until tacti-cops arrived and started inciting them. It sounded no worse than a night of mardi gras until the cops came into the picture and started throwing their weight around.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,193
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
From some personal accounts I've been reading it was a ton of people being wild, but it wasn't a riot until tacti-cops arrived and started inciting them. It sounded no worse than a night of mardi gras until the cops came into the picture and started throwing their weight around.

This is virtually always the case.

If you discount Oakland, it is always the case.
 

azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
905
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Yet, suspected cop brutality, documented it seems, goes unnoticed? Odd that thug cops get a pass by our legislators but drunk kids, most of whom are not violating the law could be used to deny carry on a campus.
Stupid behavior on the part of students does not get erased by bad behavior on the part of law enforcement. That's getting into "two wrongs make a right" territory.

As us old farts (I'm 66) are trying to make the case for Campus Carry at the legislature, it's disheartening when those affected don't get involved, or bother to show up at the legislature, or even write a letter. And, when a bunch of drunk yahoos confirm everyone's stereotype (Perception = Reality) of immaturity, it's really tough to say stand up at the Capitol in a hearing and say that regardless of how the majority appears to act, they really are responsible and mature enough to arm themselves.

As an official old fart, I remember when turning 18 meant being an adult. Now, I'm reading that you have to be near 30 to be considered an adult. That really makes for a tough sell when it comes to legislation.

/rant off
Fred
 
Last edited:

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,514
Location
Secret Bunker
I heard a snip of a radio interview with the TPD chief this morning. He says we only see a small (implies inaccurate) clip of what was actually going on. He says the officers had ordered students to leave. What he does not say is - that's exactly what the girl was trying to do. He also hints that the officer may have feared for his fellow officers safety as she was behind (some distance) their line ... More LE deflection, if walking down a street and obeying police orders (lawful or unlawful) is enough to get you beaten or worse...we really are headed towards being a police state IMHO. The video clearly shows the officer gave no warning for the girl to go another direction- he simply pummels her with his baton!

With the chief making these comments this morning ...I doubt there will be a unbiased investigation on the part of TPD. Let's hope they prove me wrong.
 
Last edited:

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
Stupid behavior on the part of students does not get erased by bad behavior on the part of law enforcement. That's getting into "two wrongs make a right" territory.

As us old farts (I'm 66) are trying to make the case for Campus Carry at the legislature, it's disheartening when those affected don't get involved, or bother to show up at the legislature, or even write a letter. And, when a bunch of drunk yahoos confirm everyone's stereotype (Perception = Reality) of immaturity, it's really tough to say stand up at the Capitol in a hearing and say that regardless of how the majority appears to act, they really are responsible and mature enough to arm themselves.

As an official old fart, I remember when turning 18 meant being an adult. Now, I'm reading that you have to be near 30 to be considered and adult. That really makes for a tough sell when it comes to legislation.

/rant off
Fred
I hear ya. But the wrongs of the state (those few cops) is what needs to be highlighted. Hammered home if you will. The professional cop must be held to a higher standard. equating the two "wrongs" is merely a deflection.
 

The Trickster

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
As an official old fart, I remember when turning 18 meant being an adult. Now, I'm reading that you have to be near 30 to be considered and adult. That really makes for a tough sell when it comes to legislation.

Colleges and universities help to exacerbate the immaturity of their students by treating them like they are children and having them sit through caring and sharing sessions in class. I swear, if they'd cut all the piffle out of college a person would be able to obtain a degree in less than a year rather than four.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
As expected, the officer (despite his recorded, viral, thug-like behaviour) acted reasonably.

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2014/10/assault-will-go-unpunished

AZ Wildcat said:
The Pima County Attorney’s Office decided against the prosecution of Tucson Police Department officer Joel Mann for violently shoving a UA student during the Elite Eight clash. The act was caught on a video that later went viral.

Pima County Chief Criminal Deputy Kellie Johnson told the Arizona Daily Star that her office declined to prosecute because it would be unable to prove criminal intent in court.

“It’s not a criminal intent if you’re using it to maintain public order,” she said.

SNIP...

The argument that an act committed “to maintain public order” is unprosecutable seems like a transparent attempt to protect the police from prosecution in almost any circumstance. TPD officers maintain public order. That’s what they do. But we need to be able to evaluate whether they choose the best and least harmful methods to achieve that goal — and when they don’t, we need to be able to hold them accountable.

The decision comes in the context of a slew of national controversies about police violence and militarization. From the Ferguson, Mo., officer who shot unarmed Michael Brown, to the New York City officer whose chokehold killed Eric Garner and the officers who shot an Albuquerque, N.M., homeless man in the back for illegally camping, America is currently confronting its unfortunate habit of allowing police to operate with impunity.

Seems like some people are late to notice the bolded part above.
Also, I especially like the implied Carte Blanche for excessive use of force: as long as it is to maintain public order, of course. :rolleyes:

Also, sorry for posting this about a week and a half late.
 
Last edited:

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Video of incident? Original looks like it was removed due to a copyright claim???

Also would a lack of criminal intent be a valid defense in a civilian case?
 
Top