Tugging on a holstered handgun ain't funny, y'all

[Red Dawg]

Silver: I understand being non-confrontational at work. HOWEVER, with everyone agreeing on a point, it might be wise to seek a different recourse than "flip off the give a damn light"...He has assualted you...He put hands on your weapon, which is basically YOU..He has put a knife in your face. Even if you are the let by-gones guy, start documenting this and all incidents. and let mangement know. Dates, times and what the hell he dids....Why would they fire you for reporting felonies? If they do, I'd think you have civil recourse..

 

[Silvertongue]

Silver: I understand being non-confrontational at work. HOWEVER, with everyone agreeing on a point, it might be wise to seek a different recourse than "flip off the give a damn light"...He has assualted you...He put hands on your weapon, which is basically YOU..He has put a knife in your face. Even if you are the let by-gones guy, start documenting this and all incidents. and let mangement know. Dates, times and what the hell he dids....Why would they fire you for reporting felonies? If they do, I'd think you have civil recourse..

He knows what I drive and the store at which we work sells all the hardware he needs to break into my vehicle and steal my weapon, even though it's in a gunvault. So I have to get him directly on camera and get him sent off for good.

I'm meeting with a manager and officer tomorrow to discuss my options for recording him, as well as what legal actions I can take. Because I work for the largest retail company in the world, I have exactly zero funds for a court battle.

Thanks for the advice and constructive criticism, all.

 

[BB62]

...I'm meeting with a manager and officer tomorrow to discuss my options for recording him, as well as what legal actions I can take. Because I work for the largest retail company in the world, I have exactly zero funds for a court battle...

Make sure YOU record your meeting (audio and video if possible) with the your manager and the officer(s).

 

[NoTolerance]

Am I the only one skeptical about the authenticity of this story? No one else finds it conveniently coincidental that the OP posted 3 days before this post that he was seeking a new knife to use against a possible gun grab and, lo and behold, has now had an opportunity to use said knife in defense of said gun grab?

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but if it walks like a duck...

ETA: "Also, I've been looking for a good weak-side belt knife to defend against a possible gun grab [...]"

 

[Silvertongue]

Am I the only one skeptical about the authenticity of this story?/

If that were the case, I'd be worried.

I'm not going to try and convince you, as there really is no way to do so without video evidence and I still haven't found out which way that camera next to the offices points.

+1 on not believing everything you read and another +1 for not being rude about it. (Is that how the +1 thing works?)

 

[NoTolerance]

+1 on not believing everything you read and another +1 for not being rude about it. (Is that how the +1 thing works?)

I'm not interested in being rude about it. It just seems awfully coincidental, hence the skepticism.

Good on you for not getting all huffy and offended.

 

[acmariner99]

I get wanting to protect your job, but by doing nothing you are enabling him to continue to get away with very dangerous behavior. I respect your restraint, but unless he gets some negative feedback of some kind (from management or elsewhere), I strongly suspect this could continue until you are put in a position where the risk of injury is too high to ignore. Then what happens?

I wasn't there so I can't judge the guy's behavior or demeanor. But he is acting like a child at the very least and being a danger to you and others at most. You need to do something.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

I've seen what workplace "horseplay" can escalate to and I would not ever flip my "whatever" switch after something like that happened. Assuming the story is all true as you've said it, I strongly urge you to not let up about these incidents. Press management to take administrative action, and if they don't consult with a lawyer about legal action you can take against both the individual and the company.

 

[davidmcbeth]

That "switch" is the only thing keeping me employed. My employer has a zero tolerance policy on confrontation; recently, a lunatic pulled a firearm in the security office and the associates wrestled it away from him.

All four were fired.

My only course of action is letting management handle it and getting over it, unless we meet again off the clock.

Clearly they don't have a zero tolerance policy ... you already told you supv. that you pulled a knife on a co-worker and you are still working there. I'm sure the co-worker did not tell mngmt that he tugged on your gun ~ he would likely just say that he bumped into you. Now, here's a manager ~ a guy admitting he pulled a knife & a guy who admits to only bumping into you. And it does not matter if it is your day off or not. If you think it does better think again.

I fired a guy for not making his child support payments ... got tired of his ex calling and wasting resources within the company. And she only called 3 times.

 

[SFCRetired]

I've seen what workplace "horseplay" can escalate to and I would not ever flip my "whatever" switch after something like that happened. Assuming the story is all true as you've said it, I strongly urge you to not let up about these incidents. Press management to take administrative action, and if they don't consult with a lawyer about legal action you can take against both the individual and the company.

And there we have a winner. Quite frankly, I don't doubt the story for the simple reason that I have seen too many idiots like that in the workplace, both in and out of the military.

OP, the keywords are "document, document, document". If at all possible, you need the ability to video/audio record your encounters with this person. If that is not possible, you need to immediately write down the date, time, and what was said or what happened. In that record, you also need to make a record of who witnessed the event.

 

[PALO]

And there we have a winner. Quite frankly, I don't doubt the story for the simple reason that I have seen too many idiots like that in the workplace, both in and out of the military.

OP, the keywords are "document, document, document". If at all possible, you need the ability to video/audio record your encounters with this person. If that is not possible, you need to immediately write down the date, time, and what was said or what happened. In that record, you also need to make a record of who witnessed the event.

Exactly. It's so STUPID, it probably is true. In hearing witness accounts of all sorts of incidents, that's a fall back position that usually reveals truth - so stupid, it probably did happen that way.

There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for tugging on a person's holstered handgun. If the person thought it was in jest, then they need a serious wake up call that doing what they did is no joke and they are lucky to walk away with less than a broken wrist. I've practiced handgun retention drills so often that they are truly hardwired and somebody who grabbed my sidearm would be lucky to walk away without a broken wrist. Again, I realize this guy meant no harm, but I know statistically speaking that over 80% of the time somebody disarms a LEO, they will use the gun against the LEO. Somebody trying to take your gun is not to be taken lightly.

 

[skidmark]

Your employer may have some internal policy against employee on employee "confrontation" but they cannot prevent you from swearing out a warrant. It should not take several days and "a meeting" with management to clarify what your legal options are.

BTW - your company, having been informed of the cow-orker's behavior, now carries vicarious liability should anything happen to you on the job, and possibly off the job as well. Your state bar association can set you up with a free consultation with either a personal liability or criminal defense attorney (take your pick) to discuss options.

At this point I throw up my hands and lreave you to whatever happens. Your reported behavior clearly shows you have no intention of taking any initiative to deal with the two situations. (Wait! Before I go - do you have any good stuff I could call dibs on?)

No "stay safe" for you! [/soup nazi voice]

 

[Logan 5]

I don't want him to have to be fired. I want him to realize his actions are wrong and treat people with respect for the rest of his days.

Getting him fired is the second to last resort, in my mind.

Belly's just fine.

The man poses as a threat to you and others at least twice...and you just want to teach him a lesson. Uh, are you trying to be special or something?

Back when I had my business going, first the guy would have been fired for tugging at the gun and you would have been fired for drawing a weapon on him. Be pro-active not re-active. Prevent the altercation by assessing your environment and dressing & acting accordingly. Where my business was and did, open carry would be permitted, so that's not a problem. From the sounds of it you're in an environment that open carrying is more provocative than preventative. Of course, these two encounters you told us of show just that.

 

[CT Barfly]

This thread should be moved to "True Tales of Self Defense"

[video=youtube;viCYkduSzaU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viCYkduSzaU[/video]


Something tells me that making a big stink about it will result in the OP being pink-slipped.

 

[Silvertongue]

Update 2

Please don't delete the thread; I made mistakes in how I handled the situation and others could learn from them.

At least, according to the people on the forum.

Meanwhile, the people that are here and actually have to deal with the situation agreed that I did better than any of them would have done.

See, it's not that I don't want him fired. It's not that I don't want him arrested. It's that I don't want one or the other. I want both of them or neither of them. Threatening me with a knife wasn't on camera, but horse playing with my box cutter was.

I can deal with a vengeful person coming after me personally. But I can't be at the car to protect the firearm at all times.

I may have no credibility, but I have the respect of people closest to me AND a story about restraint that I can tell my children. That's enough for me.

 

[skidmark]

....

See, it's not that I don't want him fired. It's not that I don't want him arrested. It's that I don't want one or the other. I want both of them or neither of them....

Why? Why the absolutism of either both or nothing? I'm pretty sure that most everybody except you sees that as an indication of a serious problem in how you are handling the situation.

I can deal with a vengeful person coming after me personally. But I can't be at the car to protect the firearm at all times. .....

Then make up your mind that th firearm in the car has become a liability for you, and remove it from there. Life is not full of choices, but with alternatives. One or the other. You must choose and you must then live with your choice.

Still no 'stay safe' for you! [/soup nazi voice]

 

[Silvertongue]

I'm pretty sure that most everybody except you sees that as an indication of a serious problem in how you are handling the situation.

He reminds me of my cousin with Aspberger's, okay? If my cousin was doing these things just because he doesn't know right from wrong, I'd want the OC'er to handle it the exact same way.

 

[SFCRetired]

Let me weigh in with one last item; a war story from a place I used to work:

We went on break one evening and, as usual, several of us went out to smoke. This individual came out and joined us and commenced a rant about a female worker, using all kinds of ethnic slurs. What broke the camel's back was his repeatedly stating, "If I had a gun, I'd shoot that ........"

There were three of us and him. I don't know what the other two did, but I took his comments directly to my supervisor. Yes, he was fired. No, I don't feel bad about it. This was a person completely out of control.

Now, if I took the actions I did only because of his words and his demeanor, how much more, OP, do you have grounds to get your idiot fired? What you have described is a person who does not realize the seriousness of his actions even now and could very well, if allowed to continue, pose a threat to not only you, but to others.

 

[skidmark]

He reminds me of my cousin with Aspberger's, okay? If my cousin was doing these things just because he doesn't know right from wrong, I'd want the OC'er to handle it the exact same way.

Generally speaking, Aspies do not get to be AF Security. That might be the first clue that we are not dealing with someone who just doesn't know better (as opposed to your saying they do not know right from wrong).

stay safe.

 

[davidmcbeth]

And there we have a winner. Quite frankly, I don't doubt the story for the simple reason that I have seen too many idiots like that in the workplace, both in and out of the military.

OP, the keywords are "document, document, document". If at all possible, you need the ability to video/audio record your encounters with this person. If that is not possible, you need to immediately write down the date, time, and what was said or what happened. In that record, you also need to make a record of who witnessed the event.

Yes, go ahead and document that you pulled a knife on your fellow employee.

My suggestion to OP: stop carrying a gun and knife when around co-workers.