To be free or not too?

[imperialism2024]

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Heartless_Conservative wrote:

So far, public emotion seems to support the "death penalty" for: terrorists, "suspected" terrorists, child molesters, rapists, drug dealers, atheists, gays... am I missing anyone?

You forgot teh joos...curse them and their beady little eyes...

Anyways, Ifind it ironic that while the people you're disagreeing with brought up the issue that rape is a far more invasive and personal crime than most other forms of assault (and btw you're the only one who made any mention about torture, which I think most people would agree is in a different catagory) you dismiss them entirely with "you're just saying that cause you're a dirty Christian theocracyphile who's obsessed with sex." (which is especially ironicconsidering that you're the only one giving much thought to the sexual aspect of it).Every time you bring up your rabid anti-Christian bigotry you seriously undermine the credibility of your points, even the ones that are otherwise excellent in their own regard.

Once again... I do not feel "rape" should be a separate crime at all. If the "rape" involved an element of torture, physical or psychological, then take that into consideration while sentencing. If a guy drugged a woman in order to rape her, then consider that in sentencing. If a person is proven to be such a danger to society, then by all means remove him from society. I'm suggesting that we not classify a select few crimes as special from their non-sexual equivalents.

I propose an explanation as to why rape is considered so much more horrible than even homocide, as the only difference between rape and a "regular" assault is the sexual aspect. If a parent neglects or physically abuses their child/ren, is that person put into a registry? No, even though what they do damages children just as much as sexual abuse. If a person assaults someone else because he wants to assert his dominance over the other person for whatever reason, is there a registry for that? No, even though that person commits that assault for the same reason a typical "rapist" commits his crime, and a person with that predilection toward violence is just as much of a danger to society as a "rapist". The only difference is society's response to the acts, not the intents of the acts or the danger of the attacker. Given that our society is based on Judeo-Christian ideals, I propose that perhaps the country's Judeo-Christian foundation is responsible for our belief that sexual assaults are so much more horrible than other violent assaults, and why we attach so severe of a stigma to the acts.

Do I hate Christianity in its own regard? Of course not. Do I hate when Christianity is used as the basis for the creation of laws as it has been for the past several centuries? Yes. Am I outraged when people refuse to look past Christianity in examining the truth of a situation? Yes. Am I outraged when atheists refuse to look past their atheism in examining the truth of a situation? Yes! Freedom should not be contingent upon either the acceptance of a religion nor the rejection of religion. What I see in this thread is an undue influence of religion on the freedom (or degree of freedom) of a particular group of people. Unfortunately, the great divide in gun owners, as evident on this board, is between those who believe that God gives us our right to defend ourselves and that God gives us our freedom, and those of us who believe that the right to self-defense and all other freedoms are inherent in nature. I fall into the second category, which unfortunately clashes with the first on issues where freedom is contingent upon following a certain set of beliefs.

 

[massltca]

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imperialism2024 wrote:

kimbercarrier wrote:

In my opinion I believe that child molesters should be executed the first time they do it . There is no such thing as accidentaly molesting a child so, if you do your just sick and 250,000 volts of electroshock therapy will cure your urges.

The harm they do to kids is irrepprable and they should not be given a chance to do it a second time.

Because we all know that there is no such thing as a wrongful conviction in the criminal justice system. Surely, no one is ever motivated in a custody battle to tell their kids to call the police and say "daddy touched me in my special place." It has also never happened that relatively minor differences in age led to a conviction, either. I can't help but agree further that beating a child with a belt everyday is trivial compared to molestation. The same thing with neglecting children... hey, they don't need food as long as they don't get molested.

/rant

I'm just amazed, not just about this particular topic, but in general the amount of people who are willing to aid the government's struggle for even more of a monopoly on the restriction of freedom for an individual. So far, public emotion seems to support the "death penalty" for: terrorists, "suspected" terrorists, child molesters, rapists, drug dealers, atheists, gays... am I missing anyone?

Emotional response is what got us the PATRIOT Act and how many firearms laws. Issues need to be examined objectively, not through the lens that the media wants us to view them. That is the path to freedom is objectivity and truth, not violently murdering anyone that gets a finger pointed at them by the public a la Salem witch trials.

+1

 

[massltca]

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Cue-Ball wrote:

I find it interesting that when the act of rape is discussed, most people here immediately focus on the worst possible acts such as child molestation. Let us not forget that other "rape" and "sexual predation" acts are completely non-violent and consensual. I hope that the people who are demanding castration and execution didn't get past first base when they were 16, because all of you were likely guilty of statutory rape.

There are a lot of people in this country who have had their lives completely ruined by the sex criminal registry. If your name is on that list, I imagine it's nearly impossible to find a place to live, much less get a fruitful job and lead a normal existence. Many of the people on that list are there for having sex with their girlfriend or doing other consensual acts.

Let's also not forget cases like the Duke lacrosse team. These guys were deliberately failed by their teachers, they received death threats, years of their lives were taken, and they weren't even guilty.

Let's not be too quick to demand castration and execution of these people.

Yes this is very true. Statutory rape isn't really rape at all and shouldn't be on the books. Why should someone be punished for a consensual act? I find the whole sex offender registry completely offensive and totally ineffective. Someone who takes a leak in public shouldn't have the rest of their life ruined by being placed on this list. If you are a danger to society you should be in prison not on the sex offender registry. When you complete your sentence that should be the end of it.

 

[Doug Huffman]

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imperialism2024 wrote:

If the "rape" involved an element of torture, physical or psychological, ...

It is incredible that the meaning of 'torture' has been so tortured that it can be separated from rape! It is indeed a fine razor you wield Bishop Ockham!

Does the idea that a statement, so qualified as to have no controversion, is tautological make any sense? Is there any sense in an assertion about the universe, with the universe so defined as to make the assertion true?

 

[WhiteFeather]

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Personally I think Rape and Childmolestation are different crimes and different acts.

Children cannot give consent and by children I mean those 11 and younger. Adolescents 12-16 Stand in a different catagory and 17-21 yet are in another. I really feel that at 17 you can provide for yourself in enough aspects as to be on your own. At 17 you can and will give someone your own mind and choice and consent. From 12-16 you may give your consent but judgment is a little off do in part to changes your body undergoes. But I strongly feel that the current system of just mixing all of these age classes together is flawed.

Rape is more preventable than childmolestation. And yes there are misscarages in justice when it comes to both. However as I stated previously I do not feel child molesters should receive more than one more chance to prove themselves in society. If you make a mistake and truly move past it then fine. I am strongly against the registry. I think once you have served your time and truly have changed then off you go back to the way your were, rights intact. However the second time should be death. The same with rapist.If you are proven 100% guilty twice commiting the same crime than you cannot possiblychange and become a productive citizen. Although everyone here has mixed opinions I am at least glad that we agree that registry is wrong and flawed.

You guys impress me on a daily basis.

 

[massltca]

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WhiteFeather wrote:

Personally I think Rape and Childmolestation are different crimes and different acts.

Children cannot give consent and by children I mean those 11 and younger. Adolescents 12-16 Stand in a different catagory and 17-21 yet are in another. I really feel that at 17 you can provide for yourself in enough aspects as to be on your own. At 17 you can and will give someone your own mind and choice and consent. From 12-16 you may give your consent but judgment is a little off do in part to changes your body undergoes. But I strongly feel that the current system of just mixing all of these age classes together is flawed.

Rape is more preventable than childmolestation. And yes there are misscarages in justice when it comes to both. However as I stated previously I do not feel child molesters should receive more than one more chance to prove themselves in society. If you make a mistake and truly move past it then fine. I am strongly against the registry. I think once you have served your time and truly have changed then off you go back to the way your were, rights intact. However the second time should be death. The same with rapist.If you are proven 100% guilty twice commiting the same crime than you cannot possiblychange and become a productive citizen. Although everyone here has mixed opinions I am at least glad that we agree that registry is wrong and flawed.

You guys impress me on a daily basis.

I agree, I think that the punishment for repeat offenses should be death. Having said that I do have a problem with the death penalty in that innocent people have been executed. I think you have to be very careful with the death penalty to make sure that doesn't happen.