Theseus 626.9 Case...The REAL DEAL!

[oc4ever]

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Theseus.

How did the DA know all about your postings on this forum? You most have said something to let the LEOs know about it.

 

[Edward Peruta]

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To OC4EVER,

I'm sure that members of variousFederal, State and Local law enforcement intelligence agenciesmonitor this board on a regular basis. Those that monitor then pass along what they read to those who are the subjects ormight have an interest in what is posted.


I can't speak to what happens here in California, but know for a fact that members of law enforcement and politiciansin other states often become educated and sometimes enlightened after reading posts on this website.

One only has to read some of the law enforcement documents posted on this website to realize the positive and negativeaspects our written comments and discussions may be having in California.


I post under my real name and attempt to post fact basedinformation, opinions and suggestions.

I'm not suprised that the Judge may have known of the posts on this site, andwould not be suprised to learn thatjurors might take a sneek peak at opencarry.com from time to time even whileactivelysittingin judgement during a trial. AFTER ALL, THEY ARE HUMAN and we all live in the Internet/Google world.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

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Edward Peruta wrote:

To OC4EVER,

I'm sure that members of variousFederal, State and Local law enforcement intelligence agenciesmonitor this board on a regular basis. Those that monitor then pass along what they read to those who are the subjects ormight have an interest in what is posted.


I can't speak to what happens here in California, but know for a fact that members of law enforcement and politiciansin other states often become educated and sometimes enlightened after reading posts on this website.

One only has to read some of the law enforcement documents posted on this website to realize the positive and negativeaspects our written comments and discussions may be having in California.


I post under my real name and attempt to post fact basedinformation, opinions and suggestions.

I'm not suprised that the Judge may have known of the posts on this site, andwould not be suprised to learn thatjurors might take a sneek peak at opencarry.com from time to time even whileactivelysittingin judgement during a trial. AFTER ALL, THEY ARE HUMAN and we all live in the Internet/Google world.

Very true and I have personal experience to support this. When I was illegally detained and we had a picnic posted on the forum and the cops showed up.

Also when I had a meeting with the Deputy Chief, I open carried into a back police office with him and city's attorney, he mentioned he wasn't afraid of me and what I would do because he had read my posts and got a sense of what type of person I am.

 

[Thundar]

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chewy352 wrote:

Theseus,

I read everything that you posted but did not see the judges ruling on the motion to suppress the private property exemption. If i skipped over it could you please point it out to me. I am interested in what the judge had to say about it.

+1 chewy

Theseus,did the judgenot issue a written ruling, only a vague bench ruling ordering exclusion of a private property defence? (Bbecause legislative intent, not the actualtext is what is important in the law????)

 

[Theseus]

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OK. I got a few more files today. . .

DA's Motion #2: Motion to exclude images depicting property as "private property" - It was believed that if the jury saw any images with the private property sign and read 626.9 they would put two and two together against the instructions.

DA's Motion #3: Motion to exclude any questioning or testimony about the defendant or any witnesses knowledge of the 626.9 exemptions. This motion not only denied me a "mistake of law" defense, which was a long shot anyway, but also the "mistake of fact". This motion sealed the deal. It prevented me from providing evidence that I lacked the mens rea to commit the crime or why. The most defense I could present at this point was to simply get on the stand and say "I didn't know there was a school there".

That was why we didn't present a defense. It would have done no good. . . It was my word against the states "evidence".

Transcripts from the "Motion to Exclude the Private Property Defense" hearing. - KEY TRANSCRIPT

I will have them up in a few minutes from now.

 

[marshaul]

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What a kangaroo court. :banghead:

 

[camsoup]

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I guess some good did come of this case.....
















We can now all freely skateboard, roller blade or ride our bikes on that property, because it isn't private property.... :celebrate



Good luck with the appeal Theseus!

 

[Thundar]

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Theseus,

After reading the filings of the district attorney I had the vague feeling I had read this before. Then it came to me. This is very similar to the book Catch 22!

This is a complete perversion of the law.

Only thing I do not understand is why your lawyer did not put up a business defense. Private property may have been off limits, due to judges ruling, but I read nothing about business defences being outlawed.

 

[Theseus]

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We did use the business exemption. We honestly thought that if they excluded the private property exemption they would toss out the business defense more easily.

It is something we are looking into as to whether we could bring this up again at appeal, but probably not.

 

[Thundar]

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Sorry, I guess I missed that.

Theseus, look at the bright side of this. This is a PITA for you, but after MacDonald California will be the best OC state in the country. Why???

Since private property is not private for the purposes of gun posession in California, then after SCOTUS declares that the 2A applies to the states, gun owners will be allowed to bring firearms on to private property, irrespective of the property owners desires. After all we must look to the original intent of the 2nd A. An Armed society, etc. (This was humor, please do not respond withlegal arguments)

How goes the appeal process?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

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Although humorous you have a point, they can't have it both ways.

Maybe this argument can be made on your appeal.

 

[bigtoe416]

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Got word from my employer that the matching donation for $500 went through today. I'll be sending another $500 this quarter, which my employer will also match.

 

[desertfox]

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I plan on Open Carrying, I've done plenty of research, I know where the schools are. To confirm, I can Open-Carry next to a pre-school, since it is not a K-12 school, right? Please anyone confirm. I'd also like to meet with a few people and OC as a group, review the laws, to make sure I don't screw up. I'd also like to help support any appeals efforts.

Is anyone up for meeting sometimeto help educate me? I live in La Mirada, but I will drive anywhere.

I've actually discussed the OC with the DA at my local PD. She is adamantly opposed to it. Should I meet with her and review my city and the OC law and where I cannot carry?

Is there any benefit to this?

Thanks!

 

[ConditionThree]

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desertfox wrote:

I plan on Open Carrying, I've done plenty of research, I know where the schools are. To confirm, I can Open-Carry next to a pre-school, since it is not a K-12 school, right? Please anyone confirm. I'd also like to meet with a few people and OC as a group, review the laws, to make sure I don't screw up. I'd also like to help support any appeals efforts.

Is anyone up for meeting sometimeto help educate me? I live in La Mirada, but I will drive anywhere.

I've actually discussed the OC with the DA at my local PD. She is adamantly opposed to it. Should I meet with her and review my city and the OC law and where I cannot carry?

Is there any benefit to this?

Thanks!

This is a patently off topic post, which should have been its own thread; That notwithstanding...

A pre-school does not meet the statutory definition of a K-12 school.

If you are concerned about the precarious legal nature of this activity, please invest in the consultation of an attorney. In spite of the fact we have undertaken this demonstration, none of us are attorneys- and nothing we say should be taken as legal advice. Whether it is an internet stranger or a person you meet from this group- none of us are legal authorities and none of us can keep you out of jail.

Your local DA is opposed to open carry because it upsets the status quo. It unbalances the socialized need for police protection whether or not we want it. Going to the DA or any law enforcementand asking about open carryis like going to Jenny Craig and asking if you should have the double cheeseburger, fries and large chocolate shake for breakfast, lunch and dinner. It is contrary to their belief system and many take it as a challenge to their position or authority. They will tell you no, and even lie to you to discourage you from doing it. So- no, there is no benefit for meeting with the DA to discuss the law- in fact, I would predict that the DA's canned answer is that they cannot offer legal advice.

 

[PincheOgro1]

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theseus,



This is probably a stupid question, but "how does the laundromat owner feel/think about what has transpired on "HIS/HER" property?" Is he/she pro/con "open carry"? Would it even matter ?

 

[desertfox]

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Theseus,

Where are things right now? Have you had your appeal yet? Having been found guilty, are you allowed to possess/ own guns? I'm curious to where things currently stand.

Can you also post or message me the lawyer (contact) that you used for your defense? I would like to keep their number on file when I do start to OC.

If you have any further court hearings/ appeals, I would like to attend. I live fairly close and my job is flexible.

I've seen on the news large groups of people participating in open-carry meetings and such. That would be great if we could have one in Southern California. I would feel more comfortable at least initially open-carrying as a group (at least one more person), rather than just as an individual.

The DA's question to me when I notified her of my intent to open-carry in this city was, "how do you think your neighbors will feel?" To which I replied, they all own guns, and the one's that don't I take them shooting. Once educated, they are all in favor.

Also - My local DA's office has been helpful so far....while she's not happy about it, I have a signed letter from the DA's office that I can carry in public parks, as long as I'm not violating K-12 school violations. They've mailed me all the annotated statutes regarding 626.9.

Thanks!

John Mark

 

[heliopolissolutions]

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desertfox wrote:

Theseus,

Where are things right now?  Have you had your appeal yet?  Having been found guilty, are you allowed to possess/ own guns?  I'm curious to where things currently stand.

Can you also post or message me the lawyer (contact) that you used for your defense?  I would like to keep their number on file when I do start to OC. 

If you have any further court hearings/ appeals, I would like to attend.  I live fairly close and my job is flexible. 

I've seen on the news large groups of people participating in open-carry meetings and such.  That would be great if we could have one in Southern California.  I would feel more comfortable at least initially open-carrying as a group (at least one more person), rather than just as an individual.

The DA's question to me when I notified her of my intent to open-carry in this city was, "how do you think your neighbors will feel?"  To which I replied, they all own guns, and the one's that don't I take them shooting.  Once educated, they are all in favor.

Also - My local DA's office has been helpful so far....while she's not happy about it, I have a signed letter from the DA's office that I can carry in public parks, as long as I'm not violating K-12 school violations.  They've mailed me all the annotated statutes regarding 626.9. 

Thanks!

John Mark

Mr. Mark, is that a necessity in your municipality? I think we'd all be very interested to see the DA's letter, could you shoot me a PM?

 

[Theseus]

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desertfox wrote:

Theseus,

Where are things right now? Have you had your appeal yet? Having been found guilty, are you allowed to possess/ own guns? I'm curious to where things currently stand.

Can you also post or message me the lawyer (contact) that you used for your defense? I would like to keep their number on file when I do start to OC.

If you have any further court hearings/ appeals, I would like to attend. I live fairly close and my job is flexible.

I've seen on the news large groups of people participating in open-carry meetings and such. That would be great if we could have one in Southern California. I would feel more comfortable at least initially open-carrying as a group (at least one more person), rather than just as an individual.

The DA's question to me when I notified her of my intent to open-carry in this city was, "how do you think your neighbors will feel?" To which I replied, they all own guns, and the one's that don't I take them shooting. Once educated, they are all in favor.

Also - My local DA's office has been helpful so far....while she's not happy about it, I have a signed letter from the DA's office that I can carry in public parks, as long as I'm not violating K-12 school violations. They've mailed me all the annotated statutes regarding 626.9.

Thanks!

John Mark

I thought all the details about my case were in this thread. . . have I just not read it in such a long time I forget?

I don't know. . . but I am a little busy to answer right now with anything other than. . . I can't tell you not to, but I can say that you need to be careful and understand what you are getting into.

I don't regret standing up and doing this, but it is causing me troubles in many other areas of my life I didn't think it would. Make sure you discuss and work with your significant other (if you have one). Save up your money. Prepare for the idea that you may have to fight for your very freedom and maybe your life and know this. Prepare yourself for that every day and you might be alright.

 

[1245A Defender]

I Really need an update! Ive followed this since day #1!

OK. I got a few more files today. . .

DA's Motion #2: Motion to exclude images depicting property as "private property" - It was believed that if the jury saw any images with the private property sign and read 626.9 they would put two and two together against the instructions.

DA's Motion #3: Motion to exclude any questioning or testimony about the defendant or any witnesses knowledge of the 626.9 exemptions. This motion not only denied me a "mistake of law" defense, which was a long shot anyway, but also the "mistake of fact". This motion sealed the deal. It prevented me from providing evidence that I lacked the mens rea to commit the crime or why. The most defense I could present at this point was to simply get on the stand and say "I didn't know there was a school there".

That was why we didn't present a defense. It would have done no good. . . It was my word against the states "evidence".

Transcripts from the "Motion to Exclude the Private Property Defense" hearing. - KEY TRANSCRIPT

I will have them up in a few minutes from now.

Sorry, I guess I missed that.

Theseus, look at the bright side of this. This is a PITA for you, but after MacDonald California will be the best OC state in the country. Why???

Since private property is not private for the purposes of gun posession in California, then after SCOTUS declares that the 2A applies to the states, gun owners will be allowed to bring firearms on to private property, irrespective of the property owners desires. After all we must look to the original intent of the 2nd A. An Armed society, etc. (This was humor, please do not respond withlegal arguments)

How goes the appeal process?

I reiterate!


Some one Please give me an update!!

 

[wewd]

Some one Please give me an update!!

It is my understanding that he is no longer pursuing any appeal on his case. He had already spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $40-50K of his own money on his criminal case and there is nothing left for the appeal. None of the big CA gun rights orgs would chip in any significant amount for it. By and large they do not like UOC and even though his appeal should be a slam dunk, they are not going for it. He is currently in the process of moving overseas to Hong Kong with his family.