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Taxpayer Funded "Education" Pamphlet

Jero1987

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
191
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
I stopped by the Lynchburg Police Department today to speak with an officer. (details on that later)

I was waiting in the public lobby and noticed a pamphlet titled "What would you do if the LPD stopped you?"

I decided to take it.

Noticed on the first side, middle row, second down:
"Do not carry any weapons (real or otherwise)
Do not joke about having a weapon with you"

Apparently we are paying for this pamphlet to "Educate" people not to exercise their rights.

Pretty sad....

First side: http://jaecomputing.com/Public/LPD_What_Would_You_Do.jpg
Second side: http://jaecomputing.com/Public/LPD_What_Would_You_Do_2.jpg


On a side note:
I also asked the officer in the lobby of the police station what the rules on carrying in the public lobby was. He confirmed it was a public space, however, because the court house is in the same building on the second floor, you can not carry a gun. He said to, "leave it home". I think it is funny that they had no issue with my knife, however, a gun would be too much. Don't they have to have a metal detector at the entrance to a courthouse?
 
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Repeater

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Nov 5, 2007
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Richmond, Virginia, USA
Is this a joke?

Are they serious? Really?

"Don't make any sudden movements" ... or what, they shoot first and ask questions later?

I guess many cops get hung up on "furtive movements."
 

Tess

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Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
On a side note:
I also asked the officer in the lobby of the police station what the rules on carrying in the public lobby was. He confirmed it was a public space, however, because the court house is in the same building on the second floor, you can not carry a gun. He said to, "leave it home". I think it is funny that they had no issue with my knife, however, a gun would be too much. Don't they have to have a metal detector at the entrance to a courthouse?

VCDL is fighting this battle in Martinsville now. Just because part of a building houses courts does not make the entire building a courthouse. The officer who told you that was mistaken.
 

Jero1987

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
191
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
VCDL is fighting this battle in Martinsville now. Just because part of a building houses courts does not make the entire building a courthouse. The officer who told you that was mistaken.

He may be mistaken, but that is how they are enforcing it in Lynchburg. Maybe I need to let mr PVC know...
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
I would suggest that VCDL be informed of both these issues, the "courthouse in the building" as well as the brochure and website, which seem to me to be a clear violation of 15.2-915.

Despite the disclaimer, any publication from a police office would seem to me to carry enough weight to influence an average person's behavior. Under 15.2-915, they are not allowed to restrict the carry of any handgun, legal or illegal. They can certainly arrest someone if they are found to be violating any state law, including the carry of an illegal handgun, but the local folks cannot regulate it on their own.

It would be interesting to see if their legal folks vetted the brochure, which in my uninformed opinion, could easily be interpreted to locally prohibit carry of any weapons.

I'm probably wrong in my conclusions, perhaps User can weigh in. But I'm sure these folks need some ed-u-ma-catin' of some sort.

TFred
 

skidmark

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Joined
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Valhalla
He may be mistaken, but that is how they are enforcing it in Lynchburg. Maybe I need to let mr PVC know...

While contacting VCDL is always a Good Thing(TM), we all need to remember that we can do this stuff on our own, and that we ought to be doing it on our own until we need help. Sending a letter to the Chief of Police and the City Attorney, informing them of the existing Court of Appeals decision and the conflict between that case law and their "rule" is not that hard to do. Following up after a week if no answer is received is not difficult.

This is not a rant directed at the OP - it's intended as a reminder that we all can be involved in the struggle, and that it is not difficult to achieve results. Heck, even Ed can. (Where's that big, sloppy kiss smiley when you need it? Love ya, Ed.)

stay safe.
 

Blk97F150

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Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
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Virginia
While contacting VCDL is always a Good Thing(TM), we all need to remember that we can do this stuff on our own, and that we ought to be doing it on our own until we need help. Sending a letter to the Chief of Police and the City Attorney, informing them of the existing Court of Appeals decision and the conflict between that case law and their "rule" is not that hard to do. Following up after a week if no answer is received is not difficult.

This is not a rant directed at the OP - it's intended as a reminder that we all can be involved in the struggle, and that it is not difficult to achieve results. Heck, even Ed can. (Where's that big, sloppy kiss smiley when you need it? Love ya, Ed.)

stay safe.

Agreed.

A question I posed in another thread was 'should VCDL be copied on that correspondence?' It seems like it might be a good idea to keep them updated on the progress of issues that are being worked on by an individual (instead of the individual contacting them and saying 'here's a problem... fix it for me'.... ).

Thoughts?

Btw, will a breakfast thread appear for tomorrow morning? :D
 

jmelvin

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Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
When I worked the issue with one of the Charlottesville area county fairs I kept VCDL President on copy. I didn't get any change in policy, but the word went out about the fair's no-gun stance in the next VCDL alert. I can't recall if they've been on copy for other things I've involved myself in, but those were mostly cured without any extra assistance necessary. Remember, we the membership of VCDL are the motive force.
 

Jero1987

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
191
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
Ed shot an email to the chief faster than I could think and he got the following response:
Mr. Levine -- I am able to address your second inquiry now, so I will
respond to you on that first.

The LPD informational brochure (titled What Would You Do if the Police
Stopped You?) that you attached to your second inquiry is shown below as
Attachment 1. I was surprised to see the wording you marked within that
brochure, as that wording was the first thing that I myself corrected,
years ago, while reviewing an early draft of the brochure during its
development. The What Would You Do if the Police Stopped You?brochure that
the LPD distributes and provides on our website (Attachment 2) is the May
2007 brochure printing that is worded as follows: Do not illegally carry
weapons (real or otherwise). Do not joke about having a weapon with you.
The May 2007 brochure (Attachment 2) has been distributed since that date.
I did not see a date on the (Attachment 1) brochure that you sent me, and
at this time I do not know when or by what means that brochure version
became available to the public. The wording you marked within the
Attachment 1 brochure does not accurately reflect the Lynchburg Police
Department's advice to citizens, and is not the advice that the LPD is
providing to citizens. I will be glad to provide printed copies or
additional PDF copies of the current LPD brochure to anyone requesting this
information. Again, this brochure is also available through the LPD
website (at www.lynchburgpolice.org).


(See attached file: Attachment 1.jpg) (See attached file: Attachment 2
(What Would You Do if the Police Stopped You 5-2007).pdf)


Parks H. Snead
Chief of Police

434-455-6045 (office)
434-845-3752 (fax)

Mr. Levine -- I appreciate your providing that information. Obviously a
mixup, and I apologize for that. I will collect the inaccurate forms
myself, and will replace them with the correct/current version ones.


Parks H. Snead
Chief of Police


Kudos to Ed for his quick action!

James
 

jmelvin

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Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
Thanks for the info Jero. Now are you ever going to share your story about having your gun removed and your numbers run while calmly stopped for a minor traffic violation or not? I'm waiting to hear Chief Sneads take on the legality of departmental policy that requires officers to seize all firearms and inspect them as stolen property.
 

Jero1987

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
191
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
Thanks for the info Jero. Now are you ever going to share your story about having your gun removed and your numbers run while calmly stopped for a minor traffic violation or not? I'm waiting to hear Chief Sneads take on the legality of departmental policy that requires officers to seize all firearms and inspect them as stolen property.

lol It is on my list for this weekend... Patience, Patience, Patience...
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,834
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Are these pamphlets also available for tourists at the Welcome & Information Center? It seems only reasonable that tourists shouldn't be burdened with having to go to the police station to get one.

Do these pamphlets include a Miranda Warning?:eek:
 

All American Nightmare

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
521
Location
Never Never Land
Some problems I see (in red)
The entire thing
As any citizen of the state of Virginia, or United States of America for that matter, you may at some point find yourself on the receiving end of a police officer’s inquiry. This is no time to panic, as an officer wanting to talk to you presumes no guilt or infraction on your part. There are many reasons for a police officer to initiate contact with a civilian, only a few of which could spell certain trouble. A police officer will only detain you for the short time necessary to determine whether or not you are in fact the person in question. Once he or she has concluded that you are not, the officer will thank you for your time and return to his regular duty. Among the most likely reasons for one to be stopped on the street would be wearing similar clothing or possessing similar features to the description of a suspect, traveling in the nearby vicinity of a recent crime scene, suspicious behavior, unlawful presence or the request of another concerned individual. If an officer approaches you, here are the important things to remember…
  • Avoid sudden movements – As a rule of thumb, it’s best to inform an officer before reaching for any possession on your person. Bear in mind, police officers often find themselves in potentially hazardous situations and sudden movements could be misconstrued as an intent to harm (i.e. reaching for a weapon).
  • Save jokes for later – Anything you say may be taken literally. Joking about being armed, committing a crime or intending to commit a crime is a serious matter, as your tone or sense of humor may not be detectable to an officer on the job.
  • No touching – Keep a distance of an at least a full arms length unless instructed otherwise. Policemen carry weapons not intended for use by citizens. A move towards an officer or his or her weapon could be construed as an act of aggression.
  • Follow directions – First and foremost, comply with the request of an officer. If you have any questions, act first and ask later. Avoiding simple questions or refusing to heed to an order will only make the process last longer and less pleasant.
  • Comments are closed.
 
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ed

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Messages
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Location
Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
should VCDL be copied on that correspondence?' It seems like it might be a good idea to keep them updated on the progress of issues that are being worked on by an individual
They were copied on it. Typically when an issue comes to VCDL an executive member takes the lead on an issue and reports back. An EM may take the lead based on his/her area of knowledge or local jurisdiction or time to work the issue or a combination of any.

VCDL has no "staff".. the PEOPLE of the VCDL, ARE the "VCDL"

Ed
 

wylde007

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Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
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Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
  • No touching – Keep a distance of an at least a full arms length unless instructed otherwise. Policemen carry weapons not intended for use by citizens. A move towards an officer or his or her weapon could be construed as an act of aggression.
Now, if only officers were required to follow these rules.

While I have never once had hands placed on me except when I was actually being arrested (long story... well, stories) I know there have been untold instances of officers committing ASSAULT in the name of the ol' "officer safety" canard. Tyranny is defined as that which is unlawful for the citizenry yet lawful for the government.
 

Blk97F150

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Dec 21, 2010
Messages
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Location
Virginia
They were copied on it. Typically when an issue comes to VCDL an executive member takes the lead on an issue and reports back. An EM may take the lead based on his/her area of knowledge or local jurisdiction or time to work the issue or a combination of any.

VCDL has no "staff".. the PEOPLE of the VCDL, ARE the "VCDL"

Ed

Thanks Ed. (Although I feel like we are playing the old Abbot & Costello 'Who's on First'..... )

Let me put it this way, if I personally send a letter to a local city/county requesting that they correct/update their gun laws to come into compliance with state law... does anyone higher up the 'VCDL' food chain have any interest in being copied on that letter? If so, what is the email address that I should use for that copy?
 
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