Suicide By OC?

[22Luke36]

We have all heard of suicide by cop. Have you considered the possibility that a loon might try that with an OCer?

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

And just what actions would this 'loon' do that would provoke a lethal reaction by someone openly carrying (or concealed for that matter)?

 

[22Luke36]

Explained in the OP.

 

[Gallowmere]

And just what actions would this 'loon' do that would provoke a lethal reaction by someone openly carrying (or concealed for that matter)?

Probably the same way the suicide by cop thing works. Show up, point a gun (or other lethal weapon) at an armed person, receive assisted suicide.

 

[22Luke36]

^ in a nutshell.

 

[Gallowmere]

To answer the OP a bit more thoroughly, yes, I have considered that. The prospect doesn't bother me.

I am a huge proponent of right-to-die anyway. If one truly owns their own life and body, they should be free to do with both as they see fit; up to, and including self-termination. To be quite honest, I would probably feel better about being put in the position of having to use deadly force, if I knew that the person actually wanted to die. Of course, this isn't something that I would know until after the fact (if ever at all), so it's a bit irrelevant.

Edit to add: I feel that assisted suicide should be perfectly legal anyway. I admit though, it would require a rather long and extensive contract paper trail in order to prove that it wasn't just murder under the guise of assisted suicide, and even such paper trails could be forged.

 

[22Luke36]

I'm with you 100%.

Very thoughtful post.

 

[Michigander]

There is little more imminently serious than carrying, or more horrible than the death and destruction guns can enable instantaneously. If someone who carries has accepted the realities of the possibility of taking another person's life, they understand that carrying is a tremendous burden of many types of responsibility, and that the possibility of suicide by OCer is no more troubling than any other reason why you might have to drop the hammer on someone.

 

[Grapeshot]

A person that would do this has no respect or consideration for the one being forced to participate, be the one terminating another's life.

Suicide is the act of killing oneself - from the Latin suicdium, from sui caedere.

IMHO - we have basterdized the meaning of suicide when we elicit the commission of the act by another. That is homicide.

Homicide (Latin: homicidium, Latin: **** human being + Latin: caedere to cut, kill) is an act of a human killing another human.

I therefore reject in total the OP's premise that their is even truly such a thing as assisted suicide. Yes I know the phrase has fallen into common useage.

One may commit suicide - an illegal act in most (all?) states.

One may commit homicide, which may be justifiable or excusable. If the homicide is willful and absent of justification or acceptable excuse, then it too is illegal.

Which brings us to the Forum Rules

15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

Bottom line gentlemen (ladies too) is that advocating (endorsing/promoting/condoning) suicide or assisted suicide is not in any way acceptable on this forum.

 

[22Luke36]

A person that would do this has no respect or consideration for the one being forced to participate, be the one terminating another's life.

Suicide is the act of killing oneself - from the Latin suicdium, from sui caedere.

IMHO - we have basterdized the meaning of suicide when we elicit the commission of the act by another. That is homicide.

Homicide (Latin: homicidium, Latin: **** human being + Latin: caedere to cut, kill) is an act of a human killing another human.

I therefore reject in total the OP's premise that their is even truly such a thing as assisted suicide. Yes I know the phrase has fallen into common useage.

One may commit suicide - an illegal act in most (all?) states.

One may commit homicide, which may be justifiable or excusable. If the homicide is willful and absent of justification or acceptable excuse, then it too is illegal.

Which brings us to the Forum Rules

15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

Bottom line gentlemen (ladies too) is that advocating (endorsing/promoting/condoning) suicide or assisted suicide is not in any way acceptable on this forum.

I am NOT advocating suicide. I wanted to bring this to the table here because this is a real possibility, and certainly an issue that should be discussed or at least considered by the people on these boards. The mentally unstable are a part of our society, and with people openly carrying nationwide, it seems that it would only be a matter of time before one of us is forced into that position. Legally, this could be a mess.

ETA. I maintain the absolute and inalienable right to share my opinion on any subject, including this one, in any venue, including this one.

--Moderator Comment - 1st be reminded that there are no rights to speak/participate on OCDO.--

 

[Gallowmere]

One may commit suicide - an illegal act in most (all?) states.

One may commit homicide, which may be justifiable or excusable. If the homicide is willful and absent of justification or acceptable excuse, then it too is illegal.

Which brings us to the Forum Rules

15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

Bottom line gentlemen (ladies too) is that advocating (endorsing/promoting/condoning) suicide or assisted suicide is not in any way acceptable on this forum.

The illegality of suicide is rooted in English common law. I'm not aware of a statute from from any state that specifically makes it illegal (even Virginia does not have one). Though, even if it were, since you were so kind as to show where the term was being misused anyway (suicide vs. homicide), and a person committing the type of offense that would warrant the reaction mentioned in my first post here would likely make such homicide justifiable, I think we might be just barely inside the lines, via technicality.

Though, on ACTUAL assisted suicide, you would be correct. http://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2006/toc0800100/8.01-622.1.html Even that is only civil recourse though.

 

[22Luke36]

I wasn't talking about assisted suicide, laws or the politics related to it. I'm talking about the probabilities of, and the ramifications of such an event.

Your life is yours. Nobody has the right to make a law on the subject, therefore, if there are any laws in effect, they are completely irrelevant to the subject matter at hand.

 

[OC for ME]

I am NOT advocating suicide. I wanted to bring this to the table here because this is a real possibility, and certainly an issue that should be discussed or at least considered by the people on these boards. The mentally unstable are a part of our society, and with people openly carrying nationwide, it seems that it would only be a matter of time before one of us is forced into that position. Legally, this could be a mess.

ETA. I maintain the absolute and inalienable right to share my opinion on any subject, including this one, in any venue, including this one.

Share whatever you like. The owners of this site hold no duty to permit their property be your venue of choice.

Suicide by OC? Hmm.....non-issue. As Gallowmere stated, there is no way to know this and it really would not matter anyway. This topic is already 11 post too long.

 

[22Luke36]

This thread doesn't come even close to violating the forum rules. If the readers and posters take it there, It's on them.

 

[OC for ME]

This thread doesn't come even close to violating the forum rules. If the readers and posters take it there, It's on them.

Right. A moderator provides fair warning. It is not always about you.

moderator: Bottom line gentlemen (ladies too) is that advocating (endorsing/promoting/condoning) suicide or assisted suicide is not in any way acceptable on this forum.

Pertaining to this:

Gallowmere

To answer the OP a bit more thoroughly, yes, I have considered that. The prospect doesn't bother me.

I am a huge proponent of right-to-die anyway. If one truly owns their own life and body, they should be free to do with both as they see fit; up to, and including self-termination. To be quite honest, I would probably feel better about being put in the position of having to use deadly force, if I knew that the person actually wanted to die. Of course, this isn't something that I would know until after the fact (if ever at all), so it's a bit irrelevant.

Edit to add: I feel that assisted suicide should be perfectly legal anyway. I admit though, it would require a rather long and extensive contract paper trail in order to prove that it wasn't just murder under the guise of assisted suicide, and even such paper trails could be forged.​

Our perception/opinion is not the one that counts here at OCDO.
​

​

 

[22Luke36]

I see.

I still place a high value on the perceptions and opinions of others. Conversely, we have rules and we see clearly what happens when those get out of hand.

 

[marshaul]

Of course, one might be left to wonder how the moderators plan to enforce their preferences for what we do and do not "condone".

Isn't that basically a thought crime?

 

[22Luke36]

Yep, thought is a crime in some eyes. As is moving the goalpost to others.

 

[JamesCanby]

We have all heard of suicide by cop. Have you considered the possibility that a loon might try that with an OCer?

To quote the famous lady, "What difference does it make?"

When confronted with a deadly force attack on your person, are you going to take the time to examine the attacker's motives? Once you have made the determination that deadly force is justified to defend yourself against death or grievous bodily harm, what difference does the attacker's 'true' intent make? Hesitation on your part may well lead to your murder rather than his 'suicide.'

I'm not even certain why your question is relevant.

 

[JamesCanby]

[snip]

ETA. I maintain the absolute and inalienable right to share my opinion on any subject, including this one, in any venue, including this one.

What arrogance! You are posting on this forum with the permission of the owners and are welcome so long as you adhere to the established rules. The forum is "private property" and you have no "absolute and inalienable right" other than what the owners allow.