• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Something occurred to me while watching the news...

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
990
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Police and the media refer to wannabe mass murderers who grab a gun and go shoot up a place as "active gunners" or "active shooters".

This implies there is such a thing as a "passive shooter" in their world view. But you can't pull a trigger passively, so a passive shooter would have to be one that hasn't opened fire yet.

If that IS how their thought processes are running, that would go a long way to explaining why police have an unfortunate tendency to confront peaceful open carriers at gunpoint.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,449
Location
Valhalla
Can we just call them Rapid Mass Murderers and be done with it?

"Active shooter" seems to imply that the presence of uniformed professionals armed with guns is still needed.

I offer the label of "fish food" to be used when the shooter is no longer active.

stay safe.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,276
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Police and the media refer to wannabe mass murderers who grab a gun and go shoot up a place as "active gunners" or "active shooters".

This implies there is such a thing as a "passive shooter" in their world view. But you can't pull a trigger passively, so a passive shooter would have to be one that hasn't opened fire yet.

If that IS how their thought processes are running, that would go a long way to explaining why police have an unfortunate tendency to confront peaceful open carriers at gunpoint.

Not a bad observation. Not bad at all.

With that in mind, I suspect the modifier active is added because of cop jargon or lingo in malicious assault or murder cases. As in, "Detective John Doe thinks Thug Dealscoke is the shooter who killed informant Steve Bigmouth." Meaning, if shooter is cop jargon for the guy who fired the gun in past tense, it makes sense cops would distinguish somebody shooting in the present. Disclaimer: this is not to support how they chose to make the distinction.
 
Last edited:

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
Police and the media refer to wannabe mass murderers who grab a gun and go shoot up a place as "active gunners" or "active shooters".

"Active shooter" is police vernacular for a situation in the criminal is in the act of killing innocents. It is contrasted with an armed criminal who has taken hostages but is not currently killing anyone.

The term arose following Columbine. The police rolled up on Columbine and did what they did for hostage situations: secure the perimeter, gather intel, and attempt to start negotiations to secure the release of hostages and the peaceful surrender of the criminal....or at least buy time for the SWAT team, sharp shooters, etc to get on scene. While this is an appropriate, restrained response to a hostage situation where evidence suggests a peaceful resolution may yet be possible, as we all recognize now, such a response is no response at all when a mass murderer is in the very act of running through his ammo.

I understand from friends who are involved in LEO training that current best practice in an "active shooter" situation is for responding officers to engage the shooter as soon as possible. This stands in stark contrast to how officers respond to a hostage situation in which the criminal is not presently killing innocents.

It is a term of art that the media has now picked up on and sometimes misuse.

I suspect the frame of mind of media types is far more evident in what questions they do or don't ask than exactly what vernacular they use to describe mass murders. After all, even devoted supporters of RKBA sometimes slip into using anti-terms like "hi capacity magazines" or "assault rifles" just out of convenience.

Charles
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
The term arose following Columbine. The police rolled up on Columbine and did what they did for hostage situations: secure the perimeter, gather intel, and attempt to start negotiations to secure the release of hostages and the peaceful surrender of the criminal....or at least buy time for the SWAT team, sharp shooters, etc to get on scene. While this is an appropriate, restrained response to a hostage situation where evidence suggests a peaceful resolution may yet be possible, as we all recognize now, such a response is no response at all when a mass murderer is in the very act of running through his ammo.

I remember reading that the police killed more students in that situation than the alleged shooters in th e school.



Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla

zaitz

Banned
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
162
Location
king county
Police and the media refer to wannabe mass murderers who grab a gun and go shoot up a place as "active gunners" or "active shooters".

This implies there is such a thing as a "passive shooter" in their world view. But you can't pull a trigger passively, so a passive shooter would have to be one that hasn't opened fire yet.

If that IS how their thought processes are running, that would go a long way to explaining why police have an unfortunate tendency to confront peaceful open carriers at gunpoint.

I think the meaning of inactive gunner or inactive shooter is someone who is carrying but not using his handgun at the time and therefore not in need of police response or police action. The vast majority of people who carry have shoot for practice at the range . . . and if they are out in public with a handgun, at the time, they are temporarily inactive in a way that means the police need not respond.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
"active shooter" is code for shoot the first citizen with a gun, then ask questions later whether the citizen with the gun, we just shot, was actually the "active shooter."
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
"active shooter" is code for shoot the first citizen with a gun, then ask questions later whether the citizen with the gun, we just shot, was actually the "active shooter."

Sounds like the kind of nonsense spewed by gun grabbers. "An armed citizen will just get himself killed by the responding police officers."

I guess the cops in the most liberal and anti-gun city of Utah missed that memo. When a Bosnia and Herzegovina immigrant engaged in a mass murder at the Trolley Square shopping center in Salt Lake City in 2007, an off-duty, out-of-town, out-of-uniform police officer from Ogden (some 40 miles north of SLC) was the first person to confront the shooter. When the first on-duty Salt Lake City police officer arrived, he did not fire on the off-duty, out-of-uniform Ogden officer. Together they engaged the murderer until the full active shooter response team from SLC PD responded and put the feral dog down. (The FBI was never able to determine any motive for the shooting, but was certain it was not an act of terrorism. If one wants to believe such findings.)

I believe that most police officers are well enough trained to recognize the difference between an active shooter (the guy shooting at innocent, unarmed, screaming people; and shooting at cops as well), and an armed LAC (the guy taking cover, NOT shooting at the cops or other innocent persons, perhaps engaging the bad guy). I think most LACs who exercise their RKBA are smart enough to understand how to avoid being targeted or shot by cops.

Perhaps "some" around here disagree. Or they are just looking for any excuse to snipe at cops.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
I remember reading that the police killed more students in that situation than the alleged shooters in th e school.

Citation?

I read lots of tin-foil kind of stuff. But I don't believe most of it without some collaborating evidence.
 
Top