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So who in New York is going to start the online petition for open carry rights?

BAHLZOUT2001

New member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
6
Location
LOCKPORT, NY
Im willing to try

Email me and i would start a letter that we can pass around and sign to mail to our crappy nys government. It would at least make those schmucks aware that there is a few citizens out there that would love to indulge in oc'ing in nys. bahlzout2001@yahoo.com why not whats it gonna hurt?? Shoot me an email and i wil draw somthing up that we can all sign.
 

poas000

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
1
Location
new york
We need carry in ny

Last night i was walking nearby were i live, i usually take the same stroll down to the park every night after work. I was talking in my cellphone when 3 men tried to assault me. i've been living in NY for more than 8 year now and never this have had happened to me. if i had had a gun that would not have happened.
luckily for me i tried to cry for help and they could not take anything from me but my body hurts from the punches i received and i think that this is something i could have avoided if i had carried a weapon.

I know that this may be irrelevant to the discussion of this forumm, but i just want to show the importance of this law for every citizen in a city that if you are dying and call the police by the time they arrive you are probably dead and the guilty ones are never found, like it happened last night.
 

Golden Eagle

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
254
Location
SW Michigan
Sounds to me like the same thing may have happened in N.Y. as here in Michigan.
Here around the 20's or 30's carry wasn't done much and Mich made concealed carry illegal without a license.
Then when an occasional person wanted to carry they thought they had to have a concealed license and assumed we could only conceal.

Some argued that there was no law saying we could OC but laws NEVER say what we can do, they only say what we CAN'T do.

So some lawyers did this:

By Skip Coryell said:
I had spoken with the Chief in that town and I knew that
he was dead-set against open carry and even against concealed
carry. Once, in a private conversation in his office, I
asked him what he would do if I were to walk through town
wearing a pistol and holster. He told me in no uncertain
terms that he would arrest me. I believed him.

Just to be safe, we contacted the County Prosecutor, the
State Police and the State Attorney General, just to make
sure that what we were doing was legal. To my surprise,
they all agreed that it was. They even pointed me to several
legal sources: Attorney General Opinion 7101 on brandishing,
and MCL 750.234d. I was reassured, but still nervous.
Just to make sure, we recruited an attorney to attend our
event, just in case.

A strange thing happened to me. I was no longer nervous.
In fact, I was downright happy, gleeful even. It felt good
to no longer have to hide my pistol behind a shirt. At that
moment, while walking down main street with all eyes
watching, I felt more like a free man than at any other
point in my life. mcrgo.org
Your above law is just about conceal carry, like here in Mi.
Can you site a law that says you can't have a pistol in view?
 

redlegagent

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
201
Location
, , Tajikistan
Some argued that there was no law saying we could OC but laws NEVER say what we can do, they only say what we CAN'T do.
This is a common misconception. Many see the absence of a law specifically prohibiting carry as a defacto right to carry - that is incorrect. Here in NYS, the laws that dictate illegal possession of a pistol stipulate that the only exemption is for those who have pistol permits. The law covering pistol permits ONLY allows for concealed carry permits with or without restrictions. As such, the only recognized legal carrying is concealed carry and if you open carry - you will be in violation of the laws governing illegal possession as they only recognize concealed carry permits.
 

Golden Eagle

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
254
Location
SW Michigan
Here in NYS, the laws that dictate illegal possession of a pistol stipulate that the only exemption is for those who have pistol permits. The law covering pistol permits ONLY allows for concealed carry permits with or without restrictions. As such, the only recognized legal carrying is concealed carry and if you open carry - you will be in violation of the laws governing illegal possession as they only recognize concealed carry permits.
But of course if your 'illegally' possessing a gun it won't matter how you carry. You may be right but can you post the law?
 

redlegagent

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
201
Location
, , Tajikistan
NYS Penal Law
ARTICLE 265
FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS
Section 265.00 Definitions.
265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.
265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.
265.03 Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree.
265.04 Criminal possession of a dangerous weapon in the first degree.
265.05 Unlawful possession of weapons by persons under sixteen.
265.06 Unlawful possession of a weapon upon school grounds.
265.08 Criminal use of a firearm in the second degree.
265.09 Criminal use of a firearm in the first degree.
265.10 Manufacture, transport, disposition and defacement of
weapons and dangerous instruments and appliances.
265.11 Criminal sale of a firearm in the third degree.
265.12 Criminal sale of a firearm in the second degree.
265.13 Criminal sale of a firearm in the first degree.
265.14 Criminal sale of a firearm with the aid of a minor.
265.15 Presumptions of possession, unlawful intent and defacement.
265.16 Criminal sale of a firearm to a minor.
265.17 Criminal purchase of a weapon.
265.20 Exemptions.
265.25 Certain wounds to be reported.
265.26 Burn injury and wounds to be reported.
265.30 Certain convictions to be reported.
265.35 Prohibited use of weapons.
265.40 Purchase of rifles and/or shotguns in contiguous states

S 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:
3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license
therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of
this chapter; provided, that such a license shall not preclude a
conviction for the offense defined in subdivision three of section
265.01 of this article.

Depending on where they find the pistol and the circumstances, that will determine what sub-section of the law applies. The exemption above identifies persons who have a valid NYS Pistol permit. NYS Penal Law 400.00 identifies the requirements for pistol permits - concealed only. If you are caught open carrying - you will be in violation of 400.00 and could be subject to Penal Law 265 - illegal possession.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article400.htm

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm
 

emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
NYS Penal Law
ARTICLE 265
FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS
Section 265.00 Definitions.
265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.
265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.
265.03 Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree.
265.04 Criminal possession of a dangerous weapon in the first degree.
265.05 Unlawful possession of weapons by persons under sixteen.
265.06 Unlawful possession of a weapon upon school grounds.
265.08 Criminal use of a firearm in the second degree.
265.09 Criminal use of a firearm in the first degree.
265.10 Manufacture, transport, disposition and defacement of
weapons and dangerous instruments and appliances.
265.11 Criminal sale of a firearm in the third degree.
265.12 Criminal sale of a firearm in the second degree.
265.13 Criminal sale of a firearm in the first degree.
265.14 Criminal sale of a firearm with the aid of a minor.
265.15 Presumptions of possession, unlawful intent and defacement.
265.16 Criminal sale of a firearm to a minor.
265.17 Criminal purchase of a weapon.
265.20 Exemptions.
265.25 Certain wounds to be reported.
265.26 Burn injury and wounds to be reported.
265.30 Certain convictions to be reported.
265.35 Prohibited use of weapons.
265.40 Purchase of rifles and/or shotguns in contiguous states

S 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:
3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license
therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of
this chapter; provided, that such a license shall not preclude a
conviction for the offense defined in subdivision three of section
265.01 of this article.

Depending on where they find the pistol and the circumstances, that will determine what sub-section of the law applies. The exemption above identifies persons who have a valid NYS Pistol permit. NYS Penal Law 400.00 identifies the requirements for pistol permits - concealed only. If you are caught open carrying - you will be in violation of 400.00 and could be subject to Penal Law 265 - illegal possession.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article400.htm

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm
Bolded is questionable but underlined is wrong as per 400.00(17)

If your contention is that violation of 400.00 constitutes a violation of 265.xx I direct you to 400.00 (17):
17. Applicability of section. The provisions of article two hundred
sixty-five of this chapter relating to illegal possession of a firearm,
shall not apply to an offense which also constitutes a violation of this
section by a person holding an otherwise valid license under the
provisions of this section and such offense shall only be punishable as
a class A misdemeanor pursuant to this section. In addition, the
provisions of such article two hundred sixty-five of this chapter shall
not apply to the possession of a firearm in a place not authorized by
law, by a person who holds an otherwise valid license or possession of a
firearm by a person within a one year period after the stated expiration
date of an otherwise valid license which has not been previously
cancelled or revoked shall only be punishable as a class A misdemeanor
pursuant to this section.
Thereby, IF you are in violation of 400.00 by open carrying, it would be a violation ONLY of 400.00 (2)(f) (or violation of the particular section you happen to be licensed under) and any further discussion of 265.xx is completely irrelevant because you cannot be liable for violating both 265.xx and 400.00 at the same time.

Discussion continued here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...property-and-relocating&p=1389493#post1389493
 
Last edited:

emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
This is a common misconception. Many see the absence of a law specifically prohibiting carry as a defacto right to carry - that is incorrect. Here in NYS, the laws that dictate illegal possession of a pistol stipulate that the only exemption is for those who have pistol permits. The law covering pistol permits ONLY allows for concealed carry permits with or without restrictions. As such, the only recognized legal carrying is concealed carry and if you open carry - you will be in violation of the laws governing illegal possession as they only recognize concealed carry permits.
Once you have a LICENSE, you are exempt BY STATUTE (400.00(17)), from the enumerated portions of 265 and violations of any portion of 400.00 are handled separately (public carry with a premise license, for example).

"The law covering pistol permits [licenses]" does not allow for carry restrictions, ie."with or without restrictions," the restrictions are administrative and may only be administratively enforced...this is why NYC issues premise licenses instead of target restricted carry licenses, so that they can criminally enforce their no-carry restriction under state law.

Not only is there a complete dearth of law that directly forbids open carry by name, there is some suggestion within the case law and legislative history through 2005 that open carry is encompassed within the meaning of "to have and carry concealed," however, though this may absolve you of liability under 400.00 (and defiantly under any provision of 265.xx) open carry in practice is prevented through the exercise of administrative discretion and imposition of ancillary criminal liability though charges akin to breach of the peace, disorderly conduct and the like.

see the ongoing discussion at the link above.

IANAL
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,674
Location
here nc
Me thinks OC in New York, is the last of the New Yorker citizen's worries who have to go through the follow gauntlet to even BUY a handgun:

quote:
New York's hand gun laws A permit is required to purchase handguns
Registration is necessary under handgun laws
Licensing of ownership is required
A permit to carry is required


To further elaborate the state's rigorous handgun laws ,one must have an understanding of how meticulous the procedures are. The application for a handgun license begins at the local police department where a background check and fingerprinting will be administered. Once approved, the application will then get passed to the New York State Police Department where personal references are mandatory for consideration. These references will include family members and close friends who can attest to the applicant's good moral character. New York handgun laws are filled with legislative red tape to delay such procedures; a license will be awarded within 4-6 months of the application's filing date.

According to New York's handgun laws, a license is also necessary to possess a handgun in one's home or place of business. Applications are made to the licensing officer of the city or county where the applicant resides or works. Unlike most licenses, the right to possess is completely up to the discretion of the licensing officer. Aliens who are not of proper citizenship can receive a license to possess if such basic requirements are met: Applicant must be of good moral character, at least 21 years of age, clean criminal record, and no history or evidence of mental illness or addiction to drugs/alcohol.
After the information is gathered, it is sent to the FBI for a full background check. The licensing officer can request further documentation, but the entire process will take 6 months in total. It is considered unlawful for any individual to carry, possess, or transport a handgun without a valid New York driver's license.
unquote
http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/new-york-gun-laws

sorry, there seems to be something amiss here with a petition to Como to ask his support to allow NY citizens to OC when the citizen can't easily purchase a handgun.

ipse
 
Last edited:

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Me thinks OC in New York, is the last of the New Yorker citizen's worries who have to go through the follow gauntlet to even BUY a handgun:

quote:
New York's hand gun laws A permit is required to purchase handguns
Registration is necessary under handgun laws
Licensing of ownership is required
A permit to carry is required


To further elaborate the state's rigorous handgun laws ,one must have an understanding of how meticulous the procedures are. The application for a handgun license begins at the local police department where a background check and fingerprinting will be administered. Once approved, the application will then get passed to the New York State Police Department where personal references are mandatory for consideration. These references will include family members and close friends who can attest to the applicant's good moral character. New York handgun laws are filled with legislative red tape to delay such procedures; a license will be awarded within 4-6 months of the application's filing date.

According to New York's handgun laws, a license is also necessary to possess a handgun in one's home or place of business. Applications are made to the licensing officer of the city or county where the applicant resides or works. Unlike most licenses, the right to possess is completely up to the discretion of the licensing officer. Aliens who are not of proper citizenship can receive a license to possess if such basic requirements are met: Applicant must be of good moral character, at least 21 years of age, clean criminal record, and no history or evidence of mental illness or addiction to drugs/alcohol.
After the information is gathered, it is sent to the FBI for a full background check. The licensing officer can request further documentation, but the entire process will take 6 months in total. It is considered unlawful for any individual to carry, possess, or transport a handgun without a valid New York driver's license.
unquote
http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/new-york-gun-laws

sorry, there seems to be something amiss here with a petition to Como to ask his support to allow NY citizens to OC when the citizen can't easily purchase a handgun.

ipse
One needs a drivers license to carry,possess or transport a hand gun... ODD

Regards
CCJ
 
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