Shoot to kill or BE killed?

[mark edward marchiafava]

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While motorcycling down a very rural Mississippi backroad in Amite County late Saturday afternoon, I came across appx. 15 vehicles lined on both sides of this narrow, sparsely travelled road. My curiosity as to the reason for this was suddenly replaced with other thoughts when one of the individuals standing by a truck abruptly stepped into my path, causing me to brake to avoid hitting him. What I had stumbled into was a drug/alcohol party. The guy blocking my path was more than obviously high and bore a very striking resemblance to Charles Manson, but with a baseball cap and missing a tooth. For what seemed an eternity, he just stood there, laughing but not speaking. I tried to keep a visual on everyone front, both sides and behind me as I assessed the situation. After easing the bike into neutral, I slide my left hand to my right hip where my S&W model 586 rested. Just as I unsnapped the holster, this Manson lookalike stepped aside. The "attendees" on my right all seemed to notice the 357 as I eased away. During this time span of less than 60 seconds, lots of thoughts ran through my mind. If I have to fire on anyone, will I be indicted? Do I wait for THEM to make a move? I've got 6 shots, there's about 15 or so of them..........do the math. Let's just say it's not a good feeling to have to make such a possibly life-altering decision in a matter of seconds. All in all, it WAS better to have been armed than emptyhanded.

 

[HankT]

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Doesn't seem like a very good strategy to stop. That was a mistake..

With a motorcycle, you have mobility. Use it and get out of there. No reason to dally.

Butat least you didn't forget HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-defense:

It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.

You would have been sorry if'n you'd done that.

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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Obviously, you don't ride or you'd already know at low speed you have LESS mobility. At 10 mph, if you strike a human, more than likely, you're going down, putting yourself at an even WORSE disadvantage. Not only do you have to get off the bike as it falls, you may have to get the bike OFF your leg. Instead of dealing with all that, it makes more sense to start from a more balanced stance. Stopping wasn't the question, it was do you stop by using control or do you stop as you drop the bike? Again, do you wait for someone to produce THEIR weapon and lose the upper hand or do you draw first and take control? As many a cop has testified after killing an unarmed citizen, "I feared for my life."

 

[HankT]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Obviously, you don't ride or you'd already know at low speed you have LESS mobility. At 10 mph, if you strike a human, more than likely, you're going down, putting yourself at an even WORSE disadvantage. Not only do you have to get off the bike as it falls, you may have to get the bike OFF your leg. Instead of dealing with all that, it makes more sense to start from a more balanced stance. Stopping wasn't the question, it was do you stop by using control or do you stop as you drop the bike? Again, do you wait for someone to produce THEIR weapon and lose the upper hand or do you draw first and take control? As many a cop has testified after killing an unarmed citizen, "I feared for my life."

I ride.

You stopped.

Mistake.

At least you didn't shoot any...Amerikans.

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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The only mistake I made is I replied to your post. I've been asked by lots of others not to. If that's how YOU ride, that's your business. I've got better sense to intentionally run into a human. Not that I'd be concerned about hurting him, but it would cause me to go down as well and damage the bike in the process. It's a lose/lose situation to do so. Yes, Amerikans, they're everywhere these days.

 

[HankT]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

I've got better sense to intentionally run into a human. Not that I'd be concerned about hurting him, but it would cause me to go down as well and damage the bike in the process. It's a lose/lose situation to do so. .

You know that shiny metal tube stuff, usually chromed....with the black rubber ends....they can make the bike go around things....

Here's what they look like:

Pretty good technology, actually.




mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Yes, Amerikans, they're everywhere these days.

So many Amerikans....so few cylinders....

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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Obviously, you're just not capable of figuring this out. If you have an opening appx. 7 feet wide, you're travelling at appx. 10mph, and someone suddenly steps in front of you, leaving you NO room to manuever, you stop. It's just that simple. Unless you're in a CAR or a TRUCK, you don't even think about hitting them headon. YOU might, I wouldn't. The fact the picture you posted is a Harley speaks volumes. A HARLEY rider probably would be that stupid.

 

[HankT]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Obviously, you're just not capable of figuring this out. If you have an opening appx. 7 feet wide, you're travelling at appx. 10mph, and someone suddenly steps in front of you, leaving you NO room to manuever, you stop.

7 feet wide? Why on earth would you drive into a gauntlet 7 feet wide at low speed with vehicles on both sides and bunches of impaired people on both sides?

Hey, wait a minute, you weren't buzzed up too were you????

mark edward marchiafava wrote:

The fact the picture you posted is a Harley speaks volumes. A HARLEY rider probably would be that stupid.

Harley's a great American bike, you take that back!!!

What do you ride? One of these?:

You're kind of old to be driving a pocket rocket, ain'tcha?

BTW, why don't you have the revolver on your left side?

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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I know it's hard, but try to visualize this scenario. The road, when the shoulders are empty, is still a narrow road. Prior to Manson, Jr stepping out, there was enough room to pass safely. There was no indication of what was taking place until you got halfway through. Being on a slight downhill grade, there would be no backing up. No, Hank, I don't drink. Maybe you could quit if you tried. If you think Harley's are great, you:

1. don't ride;

2. don't know a good bike from a bad bike;

3. make your living FIXING Harleys;

4. prefer to spend more time on the side of the road than a $20 whore.

My '82 Goldwing (made in Ohio) is bulletproof and has the original:

1. fuel pump;

2. water pump;

3. alternator;

4. radiator hoses;

5. oil pump;

and everything else mechanical, less the head gaskets and routine maintenance items. Not many Harleys from 82 can say that. Being lefthanded, I prefer to reach across to draw, personal preference.

 

[HankT]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

The only mistake I made is I replied to your post. I've been asked by lots of others not to.

So you don't listen to those lots of others, eh? How many is lots? I wonder why they would ask you not to reply? :X

But you keepreplying. Contrary to their instructions to you...

 

[CA_Libertarian]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

The only mistake I made is I replied to your post. I've been asked by lots of others not to.

A mistake you made several times, even after realizing it.

HankT wrote:

... keepreplying. Contrary to their instructions to you...

Yes, keep going; I'm sure you're making valuable headway here... :banghead:


Back on topic: I would have probably tried to go around him AFTER stopping. This would make it a little safer in the event this guy tried to knock you off your bike. If he moved to block your passage, then you would probably need to turn around and leave ASAP.

In any case, drawing would probably compromise your ability to leave the area. I'm no biker, but I'm guessing it's hard to start from a dead stop with the use of only one hand.

 

[unrequited]

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HankT wrote:

mark edward marchiafava wrote:

The only mistake I made is I replied to your post. I've been asked by lots of others not to.

So you don't listen to those lots of others, eh? How many is lots? I wonder why they would ask you not to reply? :X

But you keep replying. Contrary to their instructions to you... 

 

...making friends in EVERY state! It's HankT!

 

[Seif5034]

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in that situation i'd rather have the upper hand rather than waiting for it to turn sour. drugged/drunk people are not something i'd want to deal with on a backroad....or even in the city for that matter

 

[MedicineMan]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Obviously, you're just not capable of figuring this out. If you have an opening appx. 7 feet wide, you're travelling at appx. 10mph, and someone suddenly steps in front of you, leaving you NO room to manuever, you stop. It's just that simple. Unless you're in a CAR or a TRUCK, you don't even think about hitting them headon. YOU might, I wouldn't. The fact the picture you posted is a Harley speaks volumes. A HARLEY rider probably would be that stupid.

I looked at that pic for about 10 seconds.

Know what I see????

That is NOT a harley.

Look on the top of the tree. That's a HONDA logo in that little square.

Also the tank, speedo, Fixed/welded risers, and gas cap say "Honda SHADOW".

If not for the skinny little front fender, i'd say "Shadow Aero".
But since it has that fender, I say "Spirit" (maybe).

Plus, you can CLEARLY see that there is no trailer underneath the bike.
No oil slick either.
(both negate the possibility of being a harley. LOL)


Don't know what I'd have done in the same "sitch", but sounds like you did alright.

I still want a DILLON AERO mounted on my SHADOW AERO. :shock::what:

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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Since the wife rides with me, I'm training her to shoot both a revolver AND a long gun from the back of the bike.

 

[Tucker6900]

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

Since the wife rides with me, I'm training her to shoot both a revolver AND a long gun from the back of the bike.

Turrett mounted 50cal machine gun would work too!

 

[kennethgentry82]

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I ride all the time dude and i think you did right with that many cars i would have slowed down to not knowing what was going on. I know from personal experiance that if something or someone steps out in front of you going that slow it is harder to go around than stop. You did right man except that if i was you i would have went on and pulled it and layed it in my lap just incase.

 

[kennethgentry82]

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kennethgentry82 wrote:

I ride all the time dude and i think you did right with that many cars i would have slowed down to not knowing what was going on. I know from personal experiance that if something or someone steps out in front of you going that slow it is harder to go around than stop. You did right man except that if i was you i would have went on and pulled it and layed it in my lap just incase.

just be sure that if you have to shoot be sure you shoot to kill and be sure they have a gun so you will beable to claim self defense i would make sure that they draw first.

 

[Citizen]

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I don't know how I missed this thread back then.

One of the armed self-defense gurus talks about an encounter like this. Maybe Massad Ayoob in In the Gravest Extreme.

Seems gangs in the (northeast?) would set up an ambush ona lonely rural road. Car or truck or something parked across the road or would pull across the road as the victim approached.

As I recall, the advice was to turnpromptly around and drive the other way if somethinglike this comes into view while motoring the lonely byways of this great union.

 

[kennethgentry82]

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to turn around would be best but do you realize how hard it would be to turn a motorcycle around with people around you and that it takes 2 hands to turn a motorcycle around and you would give them a free shot at you if you tried to turn around