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SCOTUS makes a good call for once!

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WalkingWolf

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I don't hate the religious right. I hate hypocrisy and pettiness. What other people do should be of no concern to you unless and until it causes you harm. I cannot think of any way, real or imagined, that allowing people to commit to a relationship that doesn't involve you will hurt you.
Do not presume to think you are right and others are wrong when it comes to spiritual matters. Their soul isn't your concern either, so don't bother trying to explain how their salvation from eternal damnation is your business.


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Plus gays enhance the economy, they have increased NY economy by 259 dollars in one year.http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/24/pf/gay-marriage-economic-impact/

States That Allow Same-Sex Marriage Have Lower Divorce Rateshttp://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/States-That-Allow-Same-Sex-Marriage-Have-Lower-Divorce-Rates-213335351.html

Gay Couples More Educated, Higher-Income Than Heterosexual Coupleshttp://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/03/01/gay-couples-more-educated-higher-income-than-heterosexual-couples

Children of same-sex couples are happier and healthier than peers, research showshttp://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/07/children-of-same-sex-couples-are-happier-and-healthier-than-peers-research-shows/

So it would seem the video is complete hogwash.
 
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Phoenix David

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See you just proved my point. He was put him off organized religion, because there are some rules. He apperantly does not like the rules and wants to do what ever he wants and thumb his nose at God. Thus sayith the Lord Thow Shalt not do such vile filthy things.

There are a lot of rules, do you follow them all or are there some that you just don't follow cause they are old?
 

nonameisgood

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I can never keep the rules about mildew and "that time of the month" straight.
Recall that it's ok for men to sleep with just about anyone except the daughter of a woman with which he had lain, in case it is his own daughter. And the commandment against adultery only applied to having sex with another man's wife, not to having sex with other, unwed women, even if you're married.


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Redbaron007

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For some humor:

Leviticus 20:13 (RB007V)
13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind....... they shall be stoned........ :lol:


 

stealthyeliminator

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Their soul isn't your concern either, so don't bother trying to explain how their salvation from eternal damnation is your business.


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Patently false and I really don't know where you think you get off saying that.

If you love your neighbor then it is your concern. Period. That simple. You really think we should be so selfish, as to have no concern for whether or not another is eternally condemned?
 
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stealthyeliminator

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It's hard to read your sarcasm without a hashtag like #justkidding


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Check the edited post and no, it's not sarcasm. I suspect that you were being sarcastic in the implication that I was being sarcastic when I was obviously not.

In case it wasn't plainly obvious, the Great Commission directly contradicts you.
 
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nonameisgood

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Wow. So you really think that you are the smartest person around and know things others don't know? You think that your version of religion is true and others are false? Good for you, but do not expect anyone to respect that view when it means that you really believe that at least half the world's population is wrong. Go save everyone else, then come back to me, or the LBGT community, or whoever else you think is delusional or ignorant.
Why can't people just let others live and let live without thinking "oh, that poor guy doesn't know what he's doing"? How does that saying go: judge not, lest ye be judged


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stealthyeliminator

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Wow. So you really think that you are the smartest person around and know things others don't know? You think that your version of religion is true and others are false? Good for you, but do not expect anyone to respect that view when it means that you really believe that at least half the world's population is wrong. Go save everyone else, then come back to me, or the LBGT community, or whoever else you think is delusional or ignorant.
Why can't people just let others live and let live without thinking "oh, that poor guy doesn't know what he's doing"? How does that saying go: judge not, lest ye be judged


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Are you ******* kidding me? I said none of those things. Give me a break.

You're acting as if I said the complete opposite of what I actually said. Give it a rest dude.

It is truly common sense that you're being unreasonable when you act as though you've been wronged by someone merely caring about you and your wellbeing.
 
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Leader

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I found it interesting today when Rush reminded us that it was these same five Justices that just two years ago declared the "Defense of Marriage Act" unconstitutional because marriage was the the exclusive purview of the states.
The Fed couldn't tell the states anything about marriage.
Now when the states want to exercise that right, the court says the FED. has jurisdiction?
 

Citizen

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I found it interesting today when Rush reminded us that it was these same five Justices that just two years ago declared the "Defense of Marriage Act" unconstitutional because marriage was the the exclusive purview of the states.
The Fed couldn't tell the states anything about marriage.
Now when the states want to exercise that right, the court says the FED. has jurisdiction?

Just a little comment from the terminology Nazi.

The Fed refers to The Federal Reserve--a privately owned central bank controlling the creation of money and its market value by controlling interest rates.
 

twoskinsonemanns

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Presumption and unsubstantiated opinion. Or, is it a matter of magnitude. Ask the kid(s) who dad, or mom, comes out and then walks out.
Petty bickering and intentionally obtuse.
You sound like the SCOTUS playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon with Commerce clause law.
No one is directly hurt by gays being gay and you know it.
 

utbagpiper

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SCOTUS got this wrong on several levels

The Supreme Court got this one wrong on several levels.

First, no where in the federal constitution do the States delegate to the federal government any power to regulate or define marriage at all. Under the 10th amendment then, marriage is a power reserved to the States and/or the People. The federal courts had no business even taking these cases, much less deciding that the Civil War era 14th amendment dealing with racial equality was actually intended to require all the States to redefine marriage to include homosexual coupling.

Secondly, this decision flies in the face of the precedence set just last year in Windsor in which the SCOTUS over-turned the federal DOMA on the basis that marriage is the purview of the States and the feds have little choice but to go along with whatever definition the States set.

The decision also flies in the face of precedence and history going back 100+ years when Utah and other territories settled by Mormons were denied admission as States until such a time as they disavowed polygamy. Back in the late 1890s the feds still understood some semblance of proper State powers and that once admitted as a State, the State and not congress would get to set marriage laws. Utah was required to adopt a special section of our State constitution that cannot be changed without the consent of Congress. This so-called "Ordinance" section" requires "Perfect toleration of religious sentiment is guaranteed" but simultaneously forever bans polygamy. (It also requires the State to provide free, non-religious schools. The tax burden to support those schools made maintenance of a separate, religious school system all but impossible and so reduced the influence of the Mormon Church.)

While Lawrence and Windsor were, arguably, appropriate applications of the federal Constitution to protect individual liberty and States' ability to define marriage for themselves, respectively, this case is bad law constitutionally, and increases the power of the federal government.

Additionally, history suggests this is a pyrrhic victory. I have frequently commented on the enviable progress homosexuals have made over the last 40 years in increasing social acceptance. But I think they've made a mistake on pushing for federal court action. Forty years ago the SCOTUS short circuited the evolving social and legislative debates on elective abortion and nationalized the legality of purely elective abortions. Today, we are still fighting that social battle. Every presidential election, every appointment to the federal benches and especially to SCOTUS devolve into trying to discern whether the next Justice will uphold or overturn Roe.

I don't think it a stretch to suggest that supporters of legal marriage recognition and benefits for homosexual relationships now find themselves in the same situation as supporters of elective abortion. As painful as it may be to wait to gain legal recognition of what one sincerely believes is a right, actually winning through the political process would have brought real and permanent victory. As is, what the courts grant, they can take away. That kind of uncertainty is a poor way to have to live.

With recent pro-gun decisions (Heller, McDonald, etc) the court has clearly followed public sentiment as evidenced by the huge growth in shall issue laws, the number of persons with permits, even the growing OC movement, as well as the increasing market of and for self-defense firearms, holsters, and other accessories.

Similarly, Loving followed the clear racial intent of the 14th amendment and was, if not behind, at least not much in front of public sentiment. At the time of the decision, only a minority of States, ~15, still had anti-miscegenation laws on the books, with some 35 permitting inter-racial marriage. Not to mention that the anti-miscegenation laws in the US were a historical anomaly. Inter-racial and inter-tribal marriage has been common throughout history partly for the purpose of building alliances. Note the inter-relations of the royal families of Scotland, England several European nations. Yes, at the time those royal marriages took place, English, Scots, and Irish were considered different "races" by most of society.

In contrast, some 40 States have constitutional provisions or statutes defining marriage as a man and a woman. That includes ultra-liberal California that adopted their Prop 8 Constitutional Amendment in the same election that made Obama POTUS.

Not to mention that this decision will greatly increase the number of landlords, employers, and shopkeepers who will be legally compelled to engage in unwanted associations.

Of course, none of this has much to do with RKBA or OC (except perhaps as we might learn from the success of the homosexual lobby, and as we might push for inclusion of gun carriers in anti-discrimination laws), and as can be seen from many comments, such a topic is naturally going to be highly divisive, cutting to the core of some of the most deeply held beliefs on both sides.

Whether the States should provide benefits to married persons, what relationships States should recognize as marriages, etc, are all interesting side debates. But from a federal constitutional perspective, this is a bad ruling from the SCOTUS, even if one is pleased with the immediate outcome.

Charles
 

Citizen

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SNIP First, no where in the federal constitution do the States delegate to the federal government any power to regulate or define marriage at all. Under the 10th amendment then, marriage is a power reserved to the States and/or the People.

Huh!?!

First, how about the 9th Amendment? Rights not enumerated are neither disparaged nor denied?

Second, so what about the 10th Amendment? You're on record on this forum saying it is generally accepted the federal government has the power to promote behavior it deems beneficial by offering tax breaks. That power ain't in the constitution, neither.

Is this an argument about rights? Or, who gets to determine rights? I gotta admit, if for you its the latter, I have no sympathy. Were I to adopt such an attitude, I would be saying in effect, "NO! They don't get to control rights! I want it!"
 
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utbagpiper

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No one is directly hurt by gays being gay and you know it.

There is some evidence to suggest that homosexuals are hurt by being homosexual.

To wit:

Men who have sex with other men remain among the highest risk category for HIV/AIDS as well as other STDs. According to a 2010 report from the CDC men who have sex with men are about 40 times more likely to contract STDs including HIV/AIDS than are others. This despite the fact that homosexual men are about twice as likely to use condoms as are heterosexual men.

Homosexual / bisexual men are 5+ times more likely to attempt or commit suicide than are heterosexual men.

Homosexuals are much more likely than heterosexuals to be depressed, and to abuse alcohol and other recreational drugs.

Common line on these risks is that homosexuals are stigmatized in society. However, the increased risk of personally damaging conduct or depression seems to be pretty consistent across cultures, nations, and societies, including those that now have decades of social and even legal acceptance for homosexual conduct. Nations such as Canada now employ hate crime laws against clergy who peacefully preach that homosexual conduct is sinful. How long can anyone credibly continue to claim that significantly increased risk of mental health and substance abuse issues among homosexuals is due primarily to social stigma or persecution in such nations? And what do such claims bode for our own free speech here? If homosexuals can use "hate crime" laws to silence clergy, how long before the gun grabbers can attack us on RKBA speech?

Whether society or any individual has a responsibility toward those who are harming only themselves is a fine debate.

But what is not debatable is that homosexuals are now forcing unwanted associations onto others. Bakers, florists, wedding photographers, and owners of reception centers and even religiously-based wedding chapels are being sued and forced to provide goods or services to support the propagation of a message they find offensive.

Whether society/government should use the tax code to encourage socially desirable conduct or whether the 1st amendment places limits on the taxing of churches are fine debates. What is not debatable is that homosexual voices are now openly calling for the elimination of charitable status for churches . The linked article calls for an end tax exemptions for all non-profits. But others have targeted primarily those that hold to the Biblical definition of marriage. Pure content based discrimination against churches.

I don't much care what consenting adults do in private. I believe our society is required to tolerate a lot of conduct I find personally offensive.

I do not believe that society should be required to endorse, encourage, or reward conduct so strongly associated with personally destructive issues like STDs, depression, suicide, and substance abuse.

Charles
 

sudden valley gunner

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Yes, they asked for the right to make the same decision as heterosexuals. They are not required to participate in marriage any more than I am. The issue of whether the government has a compelling interest in the regulation or recognition of marriage is an entirely different issue and had nothing to do with the case decided.


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Not really contrasting my point. Heteros have government interference into a private contractual matter between consenting adults. Gays just won that power or should I say enslavement too......yay!

On one hand I am happy they are receiving equal treatment of law as heteros. Cool.

On the other hand I wish the state would stay out of marriage to begin with.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Huh!?!

First, how about the 9th Amendment? Rights not enumerated are neither disparaged nor denied?

Second, so what about the 10th Amendment? You're on record on this forum saying it is generally accepted the federal government has the power to promote behavior it deems beneficial by offering tax breaks. That power ain't in the constitution, neither.

Is this an argument about rights? Or, who gets to determine rights? I gotta admit, if for you its the latter, I have no sympathy. Were I to adopt such an attitude, I would be saying in effect, "NO! They don't get to control rights! I want it!"

They can't grasp that you simply can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

utbagpiper

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First, how about the 9th Amendment? Rights not enumerated are neither disparaged nor denied?

The 9th amendment along with 4th amendment privacy protections form a solid foundation for Lawrence, protecting citizens from State intrusion.

These do not provide a basis for forcing States to redefine marriage.

Second, so what about the 10th Amendment?

The 10th amendment clearly reserves to the States and/or people all power not delegated to feds. This forms a rational basis for the Windsor decision overturning DOMA. States, not congress get to define marriage.

It does not provide a basis for forcing States to redefine marriage.

You're on record on this forum saying it is generally accepted the federal government has the power to promote behavior it deems beneficial by offering tax breaks. That power ain't in the constitution, neither.

Of course it is. The 16th amendment provides the federal government unlimited taxing authority. It may choose to employ that authority as it sees fit including to promote behavior deemed socially acceptable. That power is exercised by Congress, not the courts.

Is this an argument about rights? Or, who gets to determine rights? I gotta admit, if for you its the latter, I have no sympathy. Were I to adopt such an attitude, I would be saying in effect, "NO! They don't get to control rights! I want it!"

I'm not interested in having another debate about anarchy with you. Under our constitutional system, government power is divided among 3 branches and between the feds and the States. SCOTUS has just trampled on powers reserved to the States.

Individuals have a right to live their intimate lives without fear of criminal prosecution: 4th and 9th amds.

They do not have a right to force society or State Governments to grant legal benefits to them. And the federal government lacks any delegated authority for the courts to invent a "right" to get the legal benefits of marriage for a relationship that fails to meet the most basic definitions of marriage as set forth by the several States.

Charles
 

Dave_pro2a

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The 9th amendment along with 4th amendment privacy protections form a solid foundation for Lawrence, protecting citizens from State intrusion.

These do not provide a basis for forcing States to redefine marriage.



The 10th amendment clearly reserves to the States and/or people all power not delegated to feds. This forms a rational basis for the Windsor decision overturning DOMA. States, not congress get to define marriage.

It does not provide a basis for forcing States to redefine marriage.



Of course it is. The 16th amendment provides the federal government unlimited taxing authority. It may choose to employ that authority as it sees fit including to promote behavior deemed socially acceptable. That power is exercised by Congress, not the courts.



I'm not interested in having another debate about anarchy with you. Under our constitutional system, government power is divided among 3 branches and between the feds and the States. SCOTUS has just trampled on powers reserved to the States.

Individuals have a right to live their intimate lives without fear of criminal prosecution: 4th and 9th amds.

They do not have a right to force society or State Governments to grant legal benefits to them. And the federal government lacks any delegated authority for the courts to invent a "right" to get the legal benefits of marriage for a relationship that fails to meet the most basic definitions of marriage as set forth by the several States.

Charles


From what I read, you might as well have said "Utah should be the first state to legalize polygamy!"

Yay State rights!
 
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