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Run in with cops, bad experience with bank and police

mdguy90

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Apr 25, 2008
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This happened back on the 19th, I haven't posted here in awhile, but I feel obligated to share my very unprofessional experience with police and a bank in Jackson.

I went to pick up my Remington 700, and went to the bank to pull out cash for it. I don’t use credit cards at my gunshop because there is another 4% charge thrown on, so I’m cheap. I usually carry my sidearm wherever I go, butt I made a note of it today, since $600 is a lot of money to me. I went to the bank, filled out a check made to cash, and went up to the teller. I have been using this bank for a year now, and have OC’d in there many times and not had an issue. This time I went up to the teller

As we were exchanging greetings and I was sliding the check and deposit slip on the counter, another teller came up to me from a desk. I thought he was only going to talk to me, but instead he grabbed my right arm(strongside) we had the following conversation

Teller: You have to take that off.
Me: I do?
Teller: yes this is a federal building and you will need to take it off and put it in your vehicle


Being halfway between a transaction, I looked at the checks that I was handing over to the lady behind the counter. The teller that grabbed my arm tried to take the checks and deposit slip from my hand and said “ I can finish your transaction” to which I told him no, I would do it myself. I then asked if we could step outside to talk about this since my weapon wasn’t allowed in the bank. He said yes, and I led him out. After we got outside, he said the following.

Teller: this is a federal building, you are not allowed to bring a weapon into a federal building

Me: this is not a federal building, this is a private local bank

Teller: this is FDIC and therefore a federal building

I knew this was not accurate, so I asked if I could talk to the owner, and in the meantime I said I would put my sidearm in my car. He said OK and got on the phone. I put my gun in my car and walked back to him, he said it was ok to go and do my transaction, so I did. After I got outside, I stood around for 10 minutes while he was on the phone. Little did I know that this teller, instead of calling his boss, called the police.

I walked up to him and said: This is your boss?
Teller: No, these are people that will explain to you what you did wrong.

So the sheriff, and two others from Jackson city police, from two squad cars come up to me. One asked if there was a problem, the teller, told them I came into the building, and said that when he asked me to leave, said I was “adamant’ about finishing my transaction.

After he said that, I replied that I was only adamant because he came up, grabbed me by the arm, and tried to take my checks from my hand.

There were three officers, one to the left, center and right.

Right officer: Where is your sidearm now?
Me: In my car, sir.
Right officer: where in your car?
Me: In the center console, sir.
Right officer: what kind of gun?
Me: a 1911
Right officer: is it ok if I look at it?
Me: No sir, that is not needed.


The right officer asked for my ID, and called in on his radio.

The center officer then asked if I had been in trouble. to which I said I never have been. He asked how long I’d been here, to which I said a year. He asked where I was from, I told him Maryland.

Center officer: Would you carry a gun into a bank in Maryland.
Me: No sir, it is not legal to carry there, but if it was, then I would.
Him: what you did was stupid, would you carry a gun into a bar here?
Me: No sir, I don’t drink.
Him: I don't care if you do, lets say you were going to a bar, would you bring a gun?
Me: No sir
Right Officer: Why are you carrying a loaded gun around?
Me: Sir, I’m drawing out a lot of money and want to make sure I am safe
Right Officer: how much?
Me: $600 sir.
Right officer: $600? Is that it? Maybe 600,000 I’d understand.
I told him that that was a huge hunk of my savings, and was therefore a lot to me.

Center Officer: Are you a dumbass?
Me: No sir, but I am a citizen and have a right to carry
Centerofficer:Shut the hell up and don't interrupt me
Me: Yes sir
Center officer: You're a dumbass, I have a feeling we'll be having a lot of trouble with you.

They then talked about wether it was legal for me to OC into a bank.

Center Officer: this sounds like an issue for the FBI, they could answer it, in fact, I'm gonna give them a call right now.

Right officer: I'm already talking to them
*minute passes by*
Right officer: Ok, it doesn't look like it's illegal.

center officer: So if you walked out with all your money and someone robbed you, would you shoot him?
Me: No sir, if someone robbed me, then they robbed me, but if someone robbed me, then tried to take my life, I would defend myself.

At the end, after they told me to leave and to “have some common sense” I asked the center officer if I could have his business card in case I had any more questions, and he said “**** no” and they all walked off.

This all happened at the main branch of "Bank of Jackson hole" I since have gone back to the bank. I talked to one of the managers, and the manager informed me that there is a policy against guns. I will be getting a written letter of apology from the teller, and in return I won't be pressing charges against him for assault. I will be taking my business to another bank, and let the manager know that. BTW the bank does not have a "no firearms" sign in the window

As for the center police officer, I will be filing a formal complaint against him, for unprofessional conduct, and refusing to identify himself. Since there were three cops, and only me, I doubt anything will come from it. I fear however, that since this is a small town, I will be getting harassed by this officer in the future(I have already seen the right officer drive around twice since, so running into them is fairly simple. There was even an officer in the business I work for, walking around. in the conversation above, when talking about money, I told them where I worked, when they asked)

I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.
 

codename_47

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I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.

Come on now you should already have one given all the fun fun experiences people have had with police.

Speaking of fun with police, have you seen the "don't talk to police" video?

If someone on the government dole started getting lippy with me, calling me stupid and such, I'd be demanding a supervisor and would most certainly drop the "sirs" and such. Just me.

I know hindsight is 20/20, just saying that it might be worthwhile to go into 4th/5th amendment modes pretty quick. No point in standing there getting insulted.
 

SDguy

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Jul 13, 2008
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, South Dakota, USA
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Would it be a good idea if you posted the bank address and name of the manager and a number of us sent "letters of concern" to the bank? How about the same thing to the police chief of Jackson?
 

HankT

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Feb 20, 2007
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mdguy90 wrote:
This all happened at the main branch of "Bank of Jackson hole" I since have gone back to the bank. I talked to one of the managers, and the manager informed me that there is a policy against guns. I will be getting a written letter of apology from the teller, and in return I won't be pressing charges against him for assault. I will be taking my business to another bank, and let the manager know that. BTW the bank does not have a "no firearms" sign in the window

As for the center police officer, I will be filing a formal complaint against him, for unprofessional conduct, and refusing to identify himself. Since there were three cops, and only me, I doubt anything will come from it. I fear however, that since this is a small town, I will be getting harassed by this officer in the future(I have already seen the right officer drive around twice since, so running into them is fairly simple. There was even an officer in the business I work for, walking around. in the conversation above, when talking about money, I told them where I worked, when they asked)

I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.


Sounds like you did very well, mdguy. The bank personnel treated you pretty shabbily. And the coppers were even worse.

But you kept your kool.

I'm heartened that you're going through the complaint with Ofc. Center. But, really, they acted as a group. Your complaint is against the trio. Hopefully, your complaint will be effective and Ofc. C's behavior will be corrected.

Just one question: When you "OC’d in there many times," did the bank's employee(s) notice the gun?
 

Thos.Jefferson

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Mar 6, 2009
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just south of the river, Kentucky, USA
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A letter of apology would not satisfy me I would most assuredly be pressing charges against the teller just as a matter of principle. If you were carrying why would you hinder your gun arm by handing the documents with that arm? I don't know about anyone else but I sure learned something from your post, thanx!
 

BB62

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Wow. Definitely follow up on this matter. I think you have the right mindset.

In the meanwhile, as you said, get a recording device(s) - maybe video too.

BEFORE you file your complain, I would file your state's version of an "open records" request for all documents andvideo/audio recordings related to this stop.

Also, you may want to remove the many details of the incident from public view. Police agencieshave been known to monitor forums such as these, then tailor the content, or the actual release of documents to benefit their officers/agency.
 

AB

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I won't post the old "this is what I would have done", but I will say that the cops have a duty to tell anyone that,"you are within your rights", and if they don't like it they can ask that you can take the gun out of the business, but there is no law against it.

P.S. that includes a bar.
 

Hendu024

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Apr 8, 2009
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Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
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Wow. Just wow.

I commend you for keeping your cool. I would have had a hard time being civil after being treated that badly by the men and women who are sworn to "serve and protect" not "harass and verbally abuse" I guess I have a bit of an attitude since my father was a police officer when I was growing up, and I was taught over and over how they can and can't act and what they can and can't do. Once again, good job on the awful interaction and good luck with any complaints/law suits.
 

SlackwareRobert

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Jun 10, 2008
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Also to keep in mind, when they are driving up, just step inside.
That way you are on federal property and they have no authority.
You can have the teller back you up with this one.:cuss::cuss:
If you really want to drive the teller nuts. Point out that only the first
250K is fdic the rest is not on federal property. That should get
his gray matter churning. :shock:

Would have loved to seen their faces. No that would be illegal.
 

Huck

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Mar 27, 2008
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Evanston, Wyoming, USA
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Thos.Jefferson wrote:
A letter of apology would not satisfy me I would most assuredly be pressing charges against the teller just as a matter of principle. If you were carrying why would you hinder your gun arm by handing the documents with that arm? I don't know about anyone else but I sure learned something from your post, thanx!
And since the teller attempted to forcefully take your checks from you I'd add attempted robbery to that assault charge as well.
 

opusd2

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Oct 1, 2008
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Butt is in, Wisconsin, USA
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You definitely get my respect for being able to keep your cool as you did. I for one would have been an ass and made things worse for myself, unless I put some MAJOR work into being good.

And with all of that in mind, you were wronged. I would definitely make sure that a forced note of apology would not be sufficient, that teller was wrong and could have really done some damage to you in their sense of self-righteousness. Who is to say that the next time it happens it isn't some person they REALLY hurt. They tried to use the law against you, make sure it works for you. It isn't being petty, you are exercising your rights.

But most of all, a complaint against the officers' present would be quite appropriate. They tried to send you down on a federal charge after all and only gave in when their superior informed them they were wrong! This is power abused and it isn't the kind of law enforcement we as Americans deserve. These people are hired to make or world better for those who were wronged against, or at least it's how it should be. But instead they are bullies with licenses to be bigger bullies with arms to make them even more dangerous. But what really makes them dangerous is the fact that they are ignorant of the laws they are supposed to defend.

A couple of fines and charges against them would give them a better respect for the laws that apply to all of us in this country. You have every right and even a need to pursue this with their superiors and their department.
 

pullnshoot25

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Jul 24, 2008
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Escondido, California, USA
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MAD RESPECT for keeping your cool.

This sort of crap is almost as bad, if not worse, than what we have out here in CA.

Sony makes REALLY good voice recorders. Make sure it has a USB port on it too.

Freaking cops.

If you need help with your complaint, shoot me a PM. I have filed two and I am on my third and I will be more than happy to help you.
 

shad0wfax

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Oct 11, 2008
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Spokane, Washington, USA
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mdguy90 wrote:
[SNIP]

This all happened at the main branch of "Bank of Jackson hole"

[SNIP]

I will also be looking into a good voice recorder.
At first I couldn't believe my eyes. This didn't sound like the Wyoming I've been through more than a few times... But then I caught that bit about the main branch of Bank of Jackson Hole... If you were actually in the Town of Jackson this makes things more clear to me. I'm convinced that tiny section of the state isn't really a part of Wyoming, but instead a segment of California that has been moved northeast into the Tetons.


As for the voice recorder, if you haven't bought one yet, I recommend the Olympus DS-40. With the right settings, you can record a whisper up to 6 feet away and have clear conversations recorded up to 15 feet away without anyone raising their voice. They're pricey (around $120 to $150) but the sound quality is better than anything else I've heard.
 

aadvark

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There is no Law in Wyoming that criminalizes carrying a Firearm into a Bank, but there are some States that do criminalize this behavior. Unfortunately, when the Police are not too well informed on certain places that may be off limits or not they tend to assume that it is off limits to Firearms.

For example, in Wyoming you may carry your Firearm to a Political Rally; however, you may not carry your Firearm to a Sporting Event. Although they are both uniquely different a Police Officer might accidently confuse the two, by thinking they are both illegal because there may be a lot of people in attendance. Likewise you may carry your Firearm into a Bank, as there are no Laws against it in Wyoming, but you may not carry your Firearm into a Bar. Interestly, these restrictions seem only to apply to concealed carry and not open carry, per 6-8-104(t), and because of 6-8-401, Localities can not enforce anything anystricter than State Law concerning Firearms.

What makes6-8-104(t) unique is that it only applies to concealed carry, not open carry, so open carry is legal throughout Wyoming... seemingly everywhere in Wyoming... so as long as you do not carry a Firearm concealed. Hereagain, just do not carry a Firearm to any place that is off limits per Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 930. Banks are not off limits per FederalLaw 18 U.S.C. 930, butPost Offices are though.

18 U.S.C. 930(g)(1) the term'FederalFacility' means: a building... or any part thereof... that is owned or leased by The United States Federal Government... where Federal employees are regularly present... performing their duties, and

18 U.S.C. 930(h)requires these restrictions to be...posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal Facility.

Whenever any Bank attendant tries to tell you that their Bank is off limits per Federal Law, then, politely ask them if they are a Federal Facility and ask to see the posted prohibitions per Federal Law restricting Firearms from their Financial Establishment. If they are rude, or insist that you are trespassing, just inform them that you will take your business elsewhere.If the Bank has signs at the door prohibiting Firearms, then, just take your business elsewhere before you even go in. However, if you have aConcealed Firearms License just conceal your Firearm before you go in, and therefore... none the wiser, so they say. Although someStates spell out exceptions, like Texas or South Carolina, most times those signs carry no legal weight in the Court of Law unless you are specifically told that Firearms are not welcome and you bring them inside anyway, hence... Criminal Trespassing.

The FederalDeposit Insurance Corporations protections do not make a Private Bank off limits, but per 18 U.S.C 930 their headquartersat 1776 F Street, N.W. is though.
 

AB

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Yes I got that but also he also said "seem only to apply to concealed carry and not open carry" and "seemingly everywhere in Wyoming... "

Just double clarifying.
 
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