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open carry of push dagger

skippy2

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Joined
Nov 29, 2017
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5
Location
New Mexico
My understanding of New Mexico law is that any dagger (two sharpened edges) is considered a deadly weapon and concealed carry is prohibited while open carry is allowed. I would like to open carry a small push dagger either as a neck knife or belt carry. I am wondering if anyone has experience carrying this type of knife. The reason that I ask is that I have had incidents in the past (in other states) of being hassled by police for legal open carry of a fixed blade knife and I wonder if that is common here, especially in Albuquerque. I don't live near ABQ and travel there as little as humanly possible but I don't want any problem with an officer who does not know the law or doesn't care. I am 67 years old and dress neatly.

Thanks for any info or advice.
 

Maverick9

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Apr 7, 2013
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Mid-atlantic
I found this:

It is illegal to conceal carry dirk knives, poniards, any type of dagger, bowie knives, switchblades, butterfly knives, butcher knives, or any other knife, which can cause dangerous wounds. In New Mexico, you may carry any legal knife openly or in your vehicle

There are a couple aspects to clarify. A 'neck knife' is arguably concealed. A neck knife which is a 'push dagger' is not legal if it has two sharpened edges. There are some that only have one edge sharpened. I don't see anything about 'blade of or under 2.5 inches', which is an out for things like switchblades (See Ca-legal switchblades).

The law is very vague. What is a 'dangerous wound'? 'Any other knife' means that you can be arrested (though probably not convicted') for carrying a swiss army knife with a 1.5" blade, if the officer wants to say it could cause a 'wound', or if you had pulled it out and brandished it. The officer could make a claim that you did that, but normally they have better things to do. An arrest, hassle or confiscation of a knife of any kind is usually called a 'pile on charge' in that maybe you were suspected of trying to burglarize a store at night, and they found a knife.

Next the open carry comment is also vague. You may open carry any 'legal knife' or in your vehicle. What is a 'legal knife'? According to the first paragraph an officer could declare in his "opinion" that any knife is not 'legal' because the considered it a 'butcher knife'. What is a butcher knife? Is a 5" paring knife, used by butchers a butcher knife?

Normally a well-coded law will have a definition section, if they are not trying to purposely be vague, and define their terms. So a proper law will define a 'butcher knife'. Is it a meat cleaver? Is it a chef's knife over 8"? What if you ARE a butcher and you carry your tools with you? Arguably, an officer could, under such a vague law, call a briefcase with a set of chef knives, 'concealed'. A good law will say things like 'Concealed on or about the body with the intent to commit a violent act' or something, which excludes normal people going about normal business, because there is no 'intent' for a chef to harm anyone even though he has a 'prohibited' type blade in a briefcase or a man-purse/bookbag, because it's 'not concealed on the body'.

So, given that, normally in New Mexico, if I really felt I needed to carry a blade, I'd pick the most innocuous smallest blade, or folder that could make you feel safe, and I would avoid things like a push dagger.

However, I recently learned that a 'push dagger' is ideal for older people or females who no longer have decent wrist strength. They're not trying to be 'knife murderers', or hoodlums.

You can buy a push dagger that is not sharpened on both edges. You can also buy a Kabar TDI knife, which many cops carry, which has a very short blade, but can be used with either hand from a draw near the belt buckle and could conceivably be 'open carried' and not be considered a 'dagger' or other New Mexico - prohibited carry.

You said you have been 'hassled' by cops in other places. Can you give an idea of what this entailed? Were you in a gang? Were you in martial arts?

To sum up, if you are really concerned, I would suggest you look at the smallest Kabar TDI and carry it on your belt. I would also do safe practices such as lock your car doors when you get in, travel with a partner, have a cell phone with 911 and your lawyer on speed dial, don't go to bars after dark, avoid parking lots after dark.

Oh one other thing, some big cities have special provisions for knife laws, again, not aimed at 60 year old accountants on business, but some cop could apply it if they wanted to, say if you were being targeted say as a political activist or a former felon.

Finally, at 67 do you really think that carrying other than a 3.5" folder is going to help you fight off a real predator? Wouldn't it be simpler to have another person with you or to ask store managers to have a security guy walk you to the car?

Good luck and HTH.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
My understanding of New Mexico law is that any dagger (two sharpened edges) is considered a deadly weapon and concealed carry is prohibited while open carry is allowed. I would like to open carry a small push dagger either as a neck knife or belt carry. I am wondering if anyone has experience carrying this type of knife. The reason that I ask is that I have had incidents in the past (in other states) of being hassled by police for legal open carry of a fixed blade knife and I wonder if that is common here, especially in Albuquerque. I don't live near ABQ and travel there as little as humanly possible but I don't want any problem with an officer who does not know the law or doesn't care. I am 67 years old and dress neatly.

Thanks for any info or advice.
I carry knives for their utility purpose, they are, IMO, a poor choice for self defense. Research your laws/statutes, but that is no guarantee you will not be arrested, or hassled. You can sometimes beat the rap, but can never beat the ride. If NM allows OC of a taser I would suggest the pulse, it gives you at least 15 feet of range, or pepper spray with a good range. Both my wife, and I carry a Mace pepper gun where firearms are prohibited, 25 foot range. Nothing is going to beat carrying a handgun for SD, but I understand NM OC is very limited on where they allow carry. At 67 you should not draw any attention with a cane, much better than a knife. Cane can be used both to parry a knife attack, used as a barrier to maintain distance, and a blunt force weapon. Several companies make SD canes(weighted), unfortunately they are illegal in NC, but may be legal in NM. I bought my cane from a feed store, it is a heavy hickory cane designed for use with cattle.
 

skippy2

Newbie
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
5
Location
New Mexico
Interesting comments, Maverick.

"A 'neck knife' is arguably concealed." ??? I can't really fathom that. Beneath shirt = concealed, outside shirt = open.

While I have the highest respect for people in law enforcement, in some big cities they are under political pressure to make their quota of white people to avoid problems with the feds over profiling. I am hoping for some input as to whether or not this occurs in ABQ. As I mentioned, I avoid this city like the plague but sometimes it is necessary.

I would never consider a push dagger or any small knife as a primary defensive weapon. However there are situations where the conflict is a sudden violent attack. Situational awareness is not 100% foolproof. In these cases, drawing and using concealed firearm is not always feasible and a 3-1/2 folder is at best an impact weapon. Fast deployment and secure, ready to use, grip are paramount. A push dagger is a last ditch option.

I have considered a TDI, La Griffe, Silent Soldier and other single edge weapons. I'll probably pick one of these if I decide the push dagger is too much hassle.

By the way, I stopped frequenting the parking lots of biker bars at 2AM Friday nights about 40 years ago. If you haven't been there lately, there are parts of ABQ that make biker bars look warm and fuzzy,

Cheers.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,261
Location
northern wis
Knifes have a place in ones live. I normally have two blades on me one is in a leathermen tool the pliers get more use then the blade any day.

My 2nd knife is a decent locking folder and it is used through out the day for any thing I need to cut.

For the past week I had 3 as it was and still is deer season and I carry a Remington big game knife for gutting related chores.

Only you can determine if you have the skills to use a knife and what kind effectively in certain self-defense situations.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
Interesting comments, Maverick.

"A 'neck knife' is arguably concealed." ??? I can't really fathom that. Beneath shirt = concealed, outside shirt = open.

While I have the highest respect for people in law enforcement, in some big cities they are under political pressure to make their quota of white people to avoid problems with the feds over profiling. I am hoping for some input as to whether or not this occurs in ABQ. As I mentioned, I avoid this city like the plague but sometimes it is necessary.

I would never consider a push dagger or any small knife as a primary defensive weapon. However there are situations where the conflict is a sudden violent attack. Situational awareness is not 100% foolproof. In these cases, drawing and using concealed firearm is not always feasible and a 3-1/2 folder is at best an impact weapon. Fast deployment and secure, ready to use, grip are paramount. A push dagger is a last ditch option.

I have considered a TDI, La Griffe, Silent Soldier and other single edge weapons. I'll probably pick one of these if I decide the push dagger is too much hassle.

By the way, I stopped frequenting the parking lots of biker bars at 2AM Friday nights about 40 years ago. If you haven't been there lately, there are parts of ABQ that make biker bars look warm and fuzzy,

Cheers.
If it looks like it is part of clothing many states consider it concealed. Here in NC a NAA mini revolver in a belt buckle is considered concealed. Most people would not recognize a push dagger in a scabbard as a knife, if the argument can be made in court it very well could go against you. A fixed blade is clearly recognized as a knife, that would be my choice, though I prefer my fixed blades on my belt.

You have to make the choice to carry a knife for self defense, but keep in mind the FBI stats on penetration for a firearm. Unless you carry a 12 inch push knife you are not going to achieve those stats. At best you may fatally wound your attacker, BUT that is going to be over a period of time too long to save your asp. Of course the mall ninja tactikewl crowd will tell you all kinds of fantasy stuff to get you to take their fantasy class.
 
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skippy2

Newbie
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
5
Location
New Mexico
If it looks like it is part of clothing many states consider it concealed. Here in NC a NAA mini revolver in a belt buckle is considered concealed. Most people would not recognize a push dagger in a scabbard as a knife, if the argument can be made in court it very well could go against you.
So either the sheeple can't recognize it as a knife, therefore it is "concealed", or they do recognize it as a knife and they feel threatened? It's absurd but the world is so mixed up that you might have a valid point.
 

wabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
152
Location
briar patch, NM
I found this:

It is illegal to conceal carry dirk knives, poniards, any type of dagger, bowie knives, switchblades, butterfly knives, butcher knives, or any other knife, which can cause dangerous wounds. In New Mexico, you may carry any legal knife openly or in your vehicle

snipp...

The law is very vague.

snippp....

Normally a well-coded law will have a definition section, snipppp...
so Maverick9, per forum rule, what NM statute are you quoting?

especially since you are misquoting the statutes.
 
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Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla

wabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
152
Location
briar patch, NM
I realize that another forum member/user was called upon to cite; however, I am feeling very expansive tonight and thought I might help.

Just about everything one might wish to know about NM knife laws can be found following:
http://www.knifeup.com/new-mexico-knife-laws/

https://www.akti.org/state-knife-laws/new-mexico/
with utmost respect and thanks to the moderator for trying to help...however, those are not cites of NM's statutes and if you check those statutes referenced on your knife cite, are not what Maverick9 stated, for example, their statement: quote: In New Mexico, you may carry any legal knife openly or in your vehicle. unquote nor the their comment about 'dangerous wounds' isn't in the state's statutory definition but the statute state's dangerous 'cuts' which is an entirely different type of injury.

finally, a review of the knife cite you provided does not state any kind of statutory cite for legal to carry deadly weapons knives, etc., in a vehicle?
 
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Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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with utmost respect and thanks to the moderator for trying to help...however, those are not cites of NM's statutes and if you check those statutes referenced on your knife cite, are not what Maverick9 stated, for example, their statement: quote: In New Mexico, you may carry any legal knife openly or in your vehicle. unquote nor the their comment about 'dangerous wounds' isn't in the state's statutory definition but the statute state's dangerous 'cuts' which is an entirely different type of injury.

finally, a review of the knife cite you provided does not state any kind of statutory cite for legal to carry deadly weapons knives, etc., in a vehicle?
No disrespect intended, but perhaps if you read a bit slower and look the right places you will find what you seek. My primary purpose here is to point people in the right direction, not provide answers to each and every point.

  • N.M. Stat. Ann. § 30-7-1 (2012)
  • N.M. Stat. Ann. § 30-7-2 (2012)
  • N.M. Stat. Ann. § 30-7-8 (2012)
  • N.M. Stat. Ann. § 30-1-12 (2012)
  • State v. Riddall, 811 P.2d 576 (Ct. App. 1991)
  • People v. Quattrone, 260 Cal. Rptr. 44 (1989)
  • Butler v. Rio Rancho Pub. Sch. Bd. of Educ., 245 F. Supp. 2d 1203 (D.N.M. 2002)
(2) in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for lawful protection of the person’s or another’s person or property;
http://www.knifeup.com/new-mexico-knife-laws/
 
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Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
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Location
Mid-atlantic
with utmost respect and thanks to the moderator for trying to help...however, those are not cites of NM's statutes and if you check those statutes referenced on your knife cite, are not what Maverick9 stated, for example, their statement: quote: In New Mexico, you may carry any legal knife openly or in your vehicle. unquote nor the their comment about 'dangerous wounds' isn't in the state's statutory definition but the statute state's dangerous 'cuts' which is an entirely different type of injury.

finally, a review of the knife cite you provided does not state any kind of statutory cite for legal to carry deadly weapons knives, etc., in a vehicle?
Hi there.

Um, I have no 'intent' as far as making cites (copies from NM law from the state website, IIRC), I'm not giving annotated footnotes for a research paper, or a thesis, I felt by using cut and paste from the state site, it would help you and others to see both how vague and how capricious some knife laws are and to urge caution.

Some states, my impression, use case law. Some use statutes. Some allow very large LEO discretion. Some are vague because the people writing the laws are just following instructions from some clerk. Some may be vague INTENTIONALLY, so a LEO can basically make up, confiscate, charge, add-on charge at his whim.

Are there really any GOOD knife carry laws? I have to say not really.

I'm not sure but you seem to be taking my 'cautions' as prohibitions or as my making rules. There is no intent to do so, no intent to dissuade you, except to get you to think about what you're really asking.

For example, my little brother told me he sleeps with some kind of filet knife or chef's knife next to the bed. My ex tells me she sleeps with a kitchen knife. I really don't comment, but I can't help musing 'whatever makes you sleep better...'.

That's really what it's about. We do things which help us to feel a 'reduced risk'. I'll say that again. People like us carry "A, B, C", to give us a perception of reduced risk.

We are not Navy SEALS. We are not professional bodyguards. We are not trained and experienced Law Enforcement professionals with 'qualified immunity'.

We are just everyday people, hoping to stay to the left of "Bang", as it were. You can over think something and by doing so get yourself in trouble.

Personally, I have two rules...ok three rules.

1) I want to sleep at home; I have nothing to prove, not my prowess, not my training, not my belief systems. I'm not Paul Revere, I'm not Captain America.

2) I protect me and mine from harm (of all kinds) the best I can; you get yourself into trouble, I'm not jumping in and help you bury things. (lol)

3) I do what it takes to stay out of the legal system (of all kinds); "one" would be well advised to make this a goal above venting, angry gesturing, posturing, seeking revenge.

HTH. Have a great day.
 
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